WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

backplaying said:
The funny part is how these same people think anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play. As Patrick said in another post to a beginner, you need to get a instructor and not just a player that plays good. Is there any video of Patrick, nopool and the rest of these people who are the only ones that can teach someone how to play pool? I would really like to see these guys play with the knowledge they have it would be something to behold I'm sure!
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No one (to my knowledge, anyway) in these threads has been ignorant enough to say, "anyone that played at a high level can't teach anyone else how to play." What they've said is that the best players seldom make the best teachers. That leaves room for exceptions. CJ may very well be one of those exceptions, but how would anyone know that for sure? Is there any video of him teaching someone else how to play pool?

And you are right; when "these guys" play with "the knowledge they have" it really can be something to behold. Bob Jewett recently demonstrated that in the U.S. Open.

Roger
 
The "moment of truth" is always at the "moment of contact"

Pay Up Sucker said:
i think the key to cj stroke is acceleration on the follow through. Short back stroke but a controlled follow through. The follow through looks to me to be his most important part of his stroke. cocked grip but everything is in his follow through..... my opinion on his miserak video.
Click to expand...

The "moment of truth" is always at the "moment of contact". Contact is the "truth" that's illustrated by the cue ball's reaction. I'm sure you've seen players that seem to go through the ball "normally", but bet unusually good reaction from the cue ball.

This is generally difficuly to identify, as to why they are getting maximum "feed back" with an apparent ease. From my experience this is done with the wrist, fingers and timing for the most part.

Pre cocking the wrist (moderately to maximum) is one way to achieve this and is related to the forearm/wrist/fingers and their synchronicity. There's very little your arm, shoulder or body can do to generate this added acceleration. In most sports, it's the forearm, wrist and fingers that make the difference in touch, control and acceleration. Pool can be the same if we learn to apply what's already available in our own hands.

'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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Pay Up Sucker said:
i think the key to cj stroke is acceleration on the follow through. Short back stroke but a controlled follow through. The follow through looks to me to be his most important part of his stroke. cocked grip but everything is in his follow through..... my opinion on his miserak video.
Click to expand...

I played around with it a bit more Friday. It certainly works very well. I think the 'key' is the grip. Once you grip the cue 'correctly' (for you) with that athletic 'tennis' type grip you have little choice but to stroke it in a sort of 'stabbing' motion which just seems to naturally have a 'controlled on track follow through'.

I like it alot. But, I have not yet put in the time necessary to have enough confidence in it while competing. Partly because, as CJ has said, there is more power out of what is a more compact stroke. So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the touch shots. Maybe I'm 'pinning' it too much.:wink:

I'm sure it will all come once I put in enough time with it. I'm not at all big on practicing but I think this kind of change will probably require it, especially after playing for 46 years in a totally different manner.

Just my take on it for now.
 
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Hi guys,

I guess many of you have gone to bed already but for you who hasn´t this live stream may be interesting to see.
I hope CJ is up and can watch it and give his thought about it afterwards. I don´t think they will record it - just show it. If someone can record, please do.
Anyway, please pay good attention to Niclas Bergendorff, the best player I have ever seen live. He hasn´t been active for a long time but he shows up from time to time. Yesterday I saw his first match, he won the lag and scratched at the first break, after that - he shoot a 1000. It was exactly how it looked when he played a lot, perfect position, great rythm, same pace, close to the object ball etc. Back then I just thought he was great but I didn´t really understand "how" he did it. I have never seen a player live like him that can make the game look so amazingly easy that it´s scary.
Well, just look. What I see and you see will mostly be different because - we are different but yet the same....
I do wish he will show you his skill, this match.
Btw pay extra attention to his presence, that is if he shoots good:-).
He puts all his trust, just then and there when he strikes the cue.

http://iof1.idrottonline.se/SvenskaBiljardforbundet/BiljardOnline/Livestream/

For you that is up, enjoy:-).

Chrippa

Ps I will watch the live stream myself the first match but then I will go to the hall to look at it live. There are many fine players still in the field. One who played in the US also is Tom Storm - CJ knows probably who he is I think.
 
Here´s the final 16 players who are left:


Time Table Matchnr. Disc. Round RaceTo Match Details
10:00 33 17 SE-16 7 Hjälmvall, Ulf 0 vs 0 Järledal, Sten
10:00 34 18 SE-16 7 Nygren, Mats 0 vs 0 Zarekani, Kevin
10:00 43 19 SE-16 7 Lundell, Jan 0 vs 0 Zhang, Tian
10:00 39 20 SE-16 7 Andersson, Fredrik 0 vs 0 Larsson, Tomas
10:00 40 21 SE-16 7 Hesselgren, Pierre 0 vs 0 Maioli, Giovanni
10:00 41 22 SE-16 7 Yousef, Mark 0 vs 0 Storm, Tom
10:00 38 23 SE-16 7 Halttu, Jyri 0 vs 0 Bergendorff, Niclas
10:00 42 24 SE-16 7 Roos, Caroline 0 vs 0 Chawki, Jim
e

I guess many of you have gone to bed already but for you who hasn´t this live stream may be interesting to see.
I hope CJ is up and can watch it and give his thought about it afterwards. I don´t think they will record it - just show it. If someone can record, please do.
Anyway, please pay good attention to Niclas Bergendorff, the best player I have ever seen live. He hasn´t been active for a long time but he shows up from time to time. Yesterday I saw his first match, he won the lag and scratched at the first break, after that - he shoot a 1000. It was exactly how it looked when he played a lot, perfect position, great rythm, same pace, close to the object ball etc. Back then I just thought he was great but I didn´t really understand "how" he did it. I have never seen a player live like him that can make the game look so amazingly easy that it´s scary.
Well, just look. What I see and you see will mostly be different because - we are different but yet the same....
I do wish he will show you his skill, this match.
Btw pay extra attention to his presence, that is if he shoots good:-).
He puts all his trust, just then and there when he strikes the cue.

http://iof1.idrottonline.se/SvenskaBiljardforbundet/BiljardOnline/Livestream/

For you that is up, enjoy:-).

Chrippa

Ps I will watch the live stream myself the first match but then I will go to the hall to look at it live. There are many fine players still in the field. One who played in the US also is Tom Storm - CJ knows probably who he is I think.[/QUOTE]
 
Chrippa said:
Btw, he´s the one with the glasses.

C
Click to expand...

I hope somebody was able to see this match, it was truly a great one. I didn´t take notes but I believe both shot above .900 in this one. Juri who is a upcoming Swede and also part of "Team Sweden", competes in the Eurotour.
He has a great approach, talked to him yesterday and I said to him how great Niclas played in his first match, and he replied (sort of) - "FUN, I will play him now":smile:.

I think that Jury did miss more than Niclas (very few times) but he really used his great approach and just pulled himself up again and did some great shots.
This time Niclas came up short but boy he can play, what a touch he has. When thinking about it I only think that he missed a clear shot once and that was a "rather" tough combo.

Well, this is getting better and better so know I need to head down to see it live:smile:.

Have a great day y´ all.

Chrippa
 
Niclas Bergendorff

Chrippa said:
Hi guys,

I guess many of you have gone to bed already but for you who hasn´t this live stream may be interesting to see.
I hope CJ is up and can watch it and give his thought about it afterwards. I don´t think they will record it - just show it. If someone can record, please do.
Anyway, please pay good attention to Niclas Bergendorff, the best player I have ever seen live. He hasn´t been active for a long time but he shows up from time to time. Yesterday I saw his first match, he won the lag and scratched at the first break, after that - he shoot a 1000. It was exactly how it looked when he played a lot, perfect position, great rythm, same pace, close to the object ball etc. Back then I just thought he was great but I didn´t really understand "how" he did it. I have never seen a player live like him that can make the game look so amazingly easy that it´s scary.
Well, just look. What I see and you see will mostly be different because - we are different but yet the same....
I do wish he will show you his skill, this match.
Btw pay extra attention to his presence, that is if he shoots good:-).
He puts all his trust, just then and there when he strikes the cue.

http://iof1.idrottonline.se/SvenskaBiljardforbundet/BiljardOnline/Livestream/

For you that is up, enjoy:-).

Chrippa

Ps I will watch the live stream myself the first match but then I will go to the hall to look at it live. There are many fine players still in the field. One who played in the US also is Tom Storm - CJ knows probably who he is I think.
Click to expand...

I've heard the name Niclas Bergendorff, but I'm not sure if we've ever played. I got on too late to see him play this match. I know Tom Storm though and have played in several tournaments with him.
 
It's a higher pitched sound that means someone is using the EDGE of their tip

ENGLISH! said:
I played around with it a bit more Friday. It certainly works very well. I think the 'key' is the grip. Once you grip the cue 'correctly' (for you) with that athletic 'tennis' type grip you have little choice but to stroke it in a sort of 'stabbing' motion which just seems to naturally have a 'controlled on track follow through'.

I like it alot. But, I have not yet put in the time necessary to have enough confidence in it while competing. Partly because, as CJ has said, there is more power out of what is a more compact stroke. So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the touch shots. Maybe I'm 'pinning' it too much.:wink:
=====================================================================================================
I really don't like the "stabbing motion", but if that works for you, it's fine with me. ;) I think more about hitting the cue ball "Crisply", "Firmly", or like I referred to before, the road players call it "Pinning" the shots. (this doesn't apply to "slow rolled"/finesse shots)

I can tell by the sound if someone is doing this or not. When Efren hits the cue ball it sounds like his ferrel is contacting the cue ball. It's a higher pitched sound that means someone is using the EDGE of their tip to contact the Cue Ball.

This will not make sense unless you experience it and feel the amplified touch in your hand and hear the amplified sound in the hit. If you use the center of your tip like is commonly taught you will hear a "dampened" sound and a "cushioned" feel/touch.
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
Pre cocking the wrist (moderately to maximum) is one way to achieve this and is related to the forearm/wrist/fingers and their synchronicity.
Click to expand...

So... now we've gone completely outside the laws of physics and have entered the realm of metaphysics? :eek:

C'mon CJ get the terminology straight, Geez... :D
 
It's always great when our stroke and our game are*synchronized

Sloppy Pockets said:
So... now we've gone completely outside the laws of physics and have entered the realm of metaphysics? :eek:

C'mon CJ get the terminology straight, Geez... :D
Click to expand...

Metaphysics? No, that's not til next week. ;) It's always great when our stroke and our game are*synchronized*. :thumbup2:


*
synchronicity is that the conceptual relationship of minds, defined as the relationship between ideas, is intricately structured in its own logical way and gives rise to relationships that are not causal in nature. These relationships can manifest themselves as simultaneous occurrences that are meaningfully related.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Metaphysics? No, that's not til next week. ;) It's always great when our stroke and our game are*synchronized*. :thumbup2:


*
synchronicity is that the conceptual relationship of minds, defined as the relationship between ideas, is intricately structured in its own logical way and gives rise to relationships that are not causal in nature. These relationships can manifest themselves as simultaneous occurrences that are meaningfully related.
Click to expand...
That quote you pasted (as usual, without attribution) from Wikipedia clearly says that "synchronicity" doesn't mean "synchronized". It's Carl Jung's concept.

Is the reason you never properly attribute quotes to their real source so that we'll think they're your words? That's plagiarism, CJ.

pj
chgo
 
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Asterisk From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Patrick Johnson said:
That quote you pasted (as usual, without attribution) from Wikipedia clearly says that "synchronicity" doesn't mean "synchronized". It's Carl Jung's concept.

Is the reason you never properly attribute quotes to their real source so that we'll think they're your words? That's plagiarism, CJ.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Asterisk
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
CJ Wiley said:
I can tell by the sound if someone is doing this or not. When Efren hits the cue ball it sounds like his ferrel is contacting the cue ball. It's a higher pitched sound that means someone is using the EDGE of their tip to contact the Cue Ball.

This will not make sense unless you experience it and feel the amplified touch in your hand and hear the amplified sound in the hit. If you use the center of your tip like is commonly taught you will hear a "dampened" sound and a "cushioned" feel/touch.
Click to expand...

if a properly shaped tip is rounded
and the cue ball is round
except for a direct center ball hit
arent you always hitting the cue ball with half a tip amd not the "center" of the tip???:confused:
 
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CJ Wiley said:
Metaphysics? No, that's not til next week. ;) It's always great when our stroke and our game are*synchronized*. :thumbup2:


*
synchronicity is that the conceptual relationship of minds, defined as the relationship between ideas, is intricately structured in its own logical way and gives rise to relationships that are not causal in nature. These relationships can manifest themselves as simultaneous occurrences that are meaningfully related.
Click to expand...

There are no relationships between player, cue, ball, and table that I am aware of that are not causal in nature.

OK... there's Efren, but aside from him...
 
bbb...Absolutely correct. Just remember, a "tip" is a 3mm contact point, between tip and CB, regardless of where you strike it.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

bbb said:
if a properly shaped tip is rounded
and the cue ball is round
except for a direct center ball hit
arent you always hitting the cue ball with half a tip amd not the "center" of the tip???:confused:
Click to expand...
 
I have really been experimenting with this tip thing lately.When you really get the feel of your tip and you get the feeling you can control what part of your tip is hitting the cue ball you can get some serious control and tight,quick spin on the ball hitting close to center. I believe a nickle shape tip would be best for this technique also. I also use this as a situational technique on short to med shots, its a good weapon when needed.
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
When you really get the feel of your tip and you get the feeling you can control what part of your tip is hitting the cue ball you can get some serious control and tight,quick spin on the ball hitting close to center.
Click to expand...
How do you control what part of your tip is hitting the cue ball? Isn't that determined by where you hit the cue ball?

pj
chgo
 
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