WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Loose may be a relative term, but when you hold the stick with just a few fingers, you are doing so to ensure you have a "looser" grip, because it keeps you from holding the cue firmly.
How do you explain the countless world champions that hold the cue with a few fingers. They clearly can't vary the tension much, and all of their shots are executed with a very loose grip because of this.
I hope you don't mind me asking...
but how long have you been playing & have you played any other hands on sports?
Also, have you taken any lessons & if so, from whom?
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I don't mind at all, but it seems like you are insinuating that my points are invalid if I don't have CJ's credentials. Great players rarely know why they are great, and they rarely know anything about the science behind the game. CJ may intuitively know a lot about the game, and may be right about some things, but some of the stuff he says just makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm a shortstop level player who's been playing since the age of 6, and seriously since age 16, so about 12 years of serious playing. I've had a couple lessons from decent players over the years, but am mostly self-taught while watching and playing with pros.
I did not mean to suggest what you said there at all. I just wanted to get an idea of 'who' you are pool wise.
It seems that you know to not just take what someone, not even a pro player or anyone else says as 'gospel'. So I would suggest that you go to a table & do your own investigation of the subject at hand.
I will put forth some things but I am going to word it IMO.
IMO:
The cue ball acts differently for the 'same' shot given how one connects to the cue, given that ALL & I do mean ALL else being equal.
Spin & moving the ball, IMO, is more conducive with a 'loose' connection.
A more firm connection is conducive for other aspects.
Hence, IMO, as a player develops, some make small adjustments as to how they connect to the cue for certain given shots.
I am not saying that one can not spin & move the ball with a firm connection. The key word is conducive & we, or rather I, am talking about a level of, with less effort.
If some of what anyone says does not make sense to you, then I would suggest that you just put it aside, as you may want to reconsider it at some time in the future.
Keep Shooting Well & Keep Looking to Get Better,
Rick
If this is an opinionated subject, then CJ should not be perpetuating his views as the truth.
It is is because of this that I'm not "putting it aside" and I am instead making sure everyone else knows that even though CJ may be a great player, what he says is not the almighty truth to everything.
There are world champions with great fundamentals that do things much differently, which is why it's dangerous to let him teach everyone his way as if it's the only way.
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If you'll do a bit of looking, you'll find that CJ has said many times that his way is not the only way & that his way may not be for everyone.
I did not mean 'let it slide'. That is not what I meant & not what I said.
What I meant was that while it may not be FOR you at this time, put it in the back of your mind as you may want to pull it out for reconsideration at some time in the future.
I will not make the same statements today or at 58 or 48 or even 38 that I made when I was 28.
Obviously, you do what ever you wish to do. I was merely giving my opinion based on my time playing the game.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
GoldenFlash
Banned
Helloooooooooo?
Sounds like to me, you could go back to studying, find out why, and then change to become better.
Is the idea of change too overwhelming or is it just a philosophical thing with you?
:wink:
And you're STILL a shortstop?? (your words)
Sounds like to me, you could go back to studying, find out why, and then change to become better.
Is the idea of change too overwhelming or is it just a philosophical thing with you?
:wink:
Another misunderstanding?!?!?!???
I feel bad for you, never being able to actually say what you mean and having to clarify all the time. It must be tough.
ENGLISH! arrived on the scene here very shortly before CJ changed his user name from "cjssecrets" and started posting in earnest about TOI and a host of other oddities. Only a coincidence, perhaps? I dunno, I always wondered if they were the same person. But nobody in their right mind(s) would do put up almost 20,000 posts in less than 3 years. Maybe he's "Bizarro CJ"?
EDIT: Just noticed he has posted in this thread 191 times already! He has also posted 191 times in the "Fear of Feel" thread. Interesting? Maybe.
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If there is a single difference & no other difference to counter that single difference then there will be a difference.
That's just common sense.
Some people have common sense & some people don't seem to have it.
Some people can think for themselves & some only 'know' what they have been told.
Here you go Patrick. Thank God that we have people like scientists that ask questions instead of thinking that they know all of the answers.:wink:
Best 2 You, Patrick...& All,
Rick
Nonsense. You're talking yourself in circles.
The grip makes no difference unless it changes the stroke.
pj
chgo
Patrick,
You & I both know where this will go if continued so I'll just cut it short & say that IMO the 'findings' are inconclusive as the testing was lacking.
Just as it was in the moment of the Big Bang, there is very much that is actually involved & going on during that very small distance traveled during that very short timeframe known as contact time & it has not been sufficiently studied.
Science is & should be an ongoing endeavor but the 'science' of the cueing of the ball completely stopped some time ago & as I said that 'scientific' study was lacking. Also, there was not really that much of it.
There is no money in this sport to encourage modern day testing & study as there is in golf. All the current 'professional' pool players could perhaps retire rather wealthy on what is spent on research & development for golf in just one year. Some of what would have been said about golf just a decade ago or less would not be said the same today.
To think that all of what was concluded about billiards that long ago would still be concluded today is a bit shortsighted in my opinion. To state some of that as unequivicable fact is foolhardy & can certainly be misleading.
Also we are not robots & when a difference is considered the biomechanics should be considered as well. The cue is connected to human beings & not a robotic machine. If the robot does not precisely emulate a human being that should be taken into consideration when conclusions are made & even then those interpretations might be faulty.
Also the language that we use can at times be a roadblock to true communication as individuals use language differently.
Perhaps the question should not be is there a difference but instead how does one arrive at a difference. Often times there is more than one way to get to the 'same' end.
Sometimes lesser players do it one way while more experienced players do it another way. Most times those experienced players have a reason for doing things the way that they do.
Each individual can & should make their own choice as to how they wish to proceed.
Like I said earlier a trip to the table should be made & one's own 'experimentation' should yield one's own conclusion...for them. It does not mean that their conclusion is universal, but merely that it is their conclusion for them, at this time.
I don't think CJ or his like really gave a single care as to any scientific studies. I think they only cared about getting the cash in their hands & they found ways to do it.
So if you want to call it nonsense that's on you but I'm not a tater farmer from a yellow blinking light whistle stop. I have some physics education.
I know what it is when it is said what the ball only knows. I also know that there is much involved to get to that point & I know that there has not been enough study.
The study for golf has yielded some very significant changes. Perhaps one day billiards will catch up but I doubt it.
Would you care to very precisely define 'stroke'?
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
PS I'll let you have the last word unless it is 'insulting'. :wink:
Insults are not objective they are subjective & actually in the eye of the beholder much like the beauty of what the Big Bang has brought forth along with the ugliness that came along for the ride.:wink:
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Twinkle Toes
I retaught a good player to change his grip....and his game changed dramatically. He was able to play less and improve much more quickly. The ''twinkle toes'' grip (finger tips only on cue butt) he had....worked just fine, as long as he played 40 hours a week, but any less and the ''old grip'' completely held back his game.
I retaught a good player to change his grip....and his game changed dramatically. He was able to play less and improve much more quickly. The ''twinkle toes'' grip (finger tips only on cue butt) he had....worked just fine, as long as he played 40 hours a week, but any less and the ''old grip'' completely held back his game.