WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

CJ Wiley said:
We'll have to "agree to disagree" on this one.

The bridge needs to be firm and not have any movement, especially lateral (I do some movement, just not allowing the cue tip to move left or right, up or down is okay). "Relaxing" into the bridge has caused many players to misfire, especially under pressure. When I'm playing seriously I'll feel like I'm digging my fingers into the slate. This is not a good place to relax in your game, it will lead to some other bad habits if the player's not careful. imho
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Hi CJ,

I'd say that I'm normally in between, perhaps because my fingers are a bit busted up from playing other sports.

But...like you say, when a shot gets my attention, so to speak, I really 'pull at the cloth' with my fingers & I also put a bit more downward force of the cue stick on the bridge.

I definitely notice more precision & consistency of precision when I do that but I just can't do it continuously for any real length of time or my fingers starts to hurt. So, I do it selectively.

To me, a light relaxed bridge is sort of like playing tennis or any sport with your shoes not tied. So, I tie them tight when my number is called, so to speak.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS I think it should be kept in mind that many are using a completely different type stroke. What reminded me of this is that I doubt that some could put any downward force of the cue on their bridge hand.
 
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That's what talcum powder is for or the more expensive glove.

How about the open bridge?

Be well.
 
Hi CJ.
Thanks for the thread. This topic has been interesting because I've been trying to get more power in my draw stroke.Struggling to keep it smooth.

So I just saw a great draw stroke from Ko Pin Yi in his match vs SVB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEqzgRNFqc&t=76m30s

I noticed that before the hand comes through on the final delivery you can see where he "uncocks " the wrist.
Its fast -(I had to pause then change the speed to .25 on youtube) he flicks the wrist way back further and accelerates quickly

Is this what you've been talking about?
Thanks
Gordon
 
CJ Wiley said:
We'll have to "agree to disagree" on this one.

The bridge needs to be firm and not have any movement, especially lateral (I do some movement, just not allowing the cue tip to move left or right, up or down is okay). "Relaxing" into the bridge has caused many players to misfire, especially under pressure. When I'm playing seriously I'll feel like I'm digging my fingers into the slate. This is not a good place to relax in your game, it will lead to some other bad habits if the player's not careful. imho
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Ha, ha! I'm not "relaxing in my game", just relaxing the unnecessary muscles. Somehow, you are mistakenly associating relaxation with looseness. There's absolutely nothing loose or "un-firm" about my bridge. With your background in the soft martial arts I was sure you'd understand what I was talking about when I said it was "rooted" into the table. The Chinese word "sung" or "sunken" describes the feeling I'm trying to achieve.

This is just one more of those things that can't be learned by outside observation or videotaping. I don't even know if it can be taught directly, it must be felt to be understood. My fingers actually feel like they are growing (not "digging") through the cloth and into the slate. There is no lateral movement at all. If I dig into the table with muscular tension, however, my bridge gets unstable, especially when I have to use an elevated bridge to shoot over balls, and that tension is also carried over to my stroke.

Anyway, I'm not trying to change anything about you or your game, but your methods simply would not work well for me at all. When I falter, it's always because I've gotten too tense, not because I've relaxed too much.
 
I actually believe we're saying the same thing, using different wording

Sloppy Pockets said:
Ha, ha! I'm not "relaxing in my game", just relaxing the unnecessary muscles. Somehow, you are mistakenly associating relaxation with looseness. There's absolutely nothing loose or "un-firm" about my bridge. With your background in the soft martial arts I was sure you'd understand what I was talking about when I said it was "rooted" into the table. The Chinese word "sung" or "sunken" describes the feeling I'm trying to achieve.

This is just one more of those things that can't be learned by outside observation or videotaping. I don't even know if it can be taught directly, it must be felt to be understood. My fingers actually feel like they are growing (not "digging") through the cloth and into the slate. There is no lateral movement at all. If I dig into the table with muscular tension, however, my bridge gets unstable, especially when I have to use an elevated bridge to shoot over balls, and that tension is also carried over to my stroke.

Anyway, I'm not trying to change anything about you or your game, but your methods simply would not work well for me at all. When I falter, it's always because I've gotten too tense, not because I've relaxed too much.
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I actually believe we're saying the same thing, using different wording. If you saw what I'm doing in person it would probably be exactly what you're referring to. I create tension, however, I'm not tense....the tension isn't severe, it's a "ready tension" you might say.

Play Well.
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CJ Wiley said:
I actually believe we're saying the same thing, using different wording. If you saw what I'm doing in person it would probably be exactly what you're referring to.
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Actually, I meant to add those exact comments to my post but I guess I didn't.

Wording is tough sometimes, and guys here hold you to what you said even if you don't quite pull off what you are driving at. Thanks for clarifying.
 
When over the shot my bridge hand is totally relaxed at 0%.
When I begin my drop my bridge goes from 0% to 100% secure before I hit the deck.

I'm a slider...when I drop in I slide my bridge into place grabbing the cloth on the way in, stopping like a suction cup, no tense muscles in my fingers, hand, forearm to shoulder, just secure because of my overall posture and very relaxed, I also use shoulder lock.

I am not comfortable with bridge distance hand placement, I feel my legs under my body better when sliding.

The only movement I have is up or down the ladder. I wear the cloth out, when I am finished playing, my palm is filthy.

I have no problem with power strokes, I think it's a combo of my posture and I stay loose. Growing up on old nap cloth everyone had a big power stroke, if something wasn't right it turned into a slug stroke. Over analyzing will burn your brain.

Sincerely:SS
 
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Hi Michael.

My palm is always 'filthy' or blue/green too.

I think the old slower nap cloth may have built more good strokes than anything else.

Best 3 You & All,
Rick
 
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It's safe to say that all professional athletes feel the same way

Sloppy Pockets said:
Actually, I meant to add those exact comments to my post but I guess I didn't.

Wording is tough sometimes, and guys here hold you to what you said even if you don't quite pull off what you are driving at. Thanks for clarifying.
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I believe the best way to describe when my game is at it's highest level is "I'm one (physically and mentally) with the equipment and the game". This means I get the sensation that my fingers are part of the cloth/slate, my hands are connected to the cue....and my mind is in sync with the balls, rails and angles.

It's safe to say that all professional athletes feel the same way in their particular sport or game.... musicians and artists {most likely} would agree as well.

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CJ Wiley said:
musicians and artists {most likely} would agree as well.
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Without a doubt. In spite of all the multi-million dollar Stradivarius and Guarnarius violins in the world, the old adage is "A great violinist carries his tone wherever he goes". Meaning that it resides in the player, and not in the instrument. Even with electric guitars and amplifiers, finger tone is what defines a great player's sound, not his equipment. Millions have been spent on equipment by aspirants trying to duplicate Stevie Ray's sound, but sadly that sound was silenced forever shortly after midnight on a foggy hillside in Wisconsin some 25 years ago.:(
 
Playing through your Center Core.

It begins when you leave the chair, it continues when you sit down.
The balls have a core, when you combine them you find the zone.
The sooner you find the zone and stay there your game elevates.
It ends when the game is over, maybe.

It flows through your center
It's very powerful, its like eating a bowl of euphoria.
It's exactly like playing my guitar, without strings and a tad more quiet.
I have written about it many times.

I search my core when I am screwing my cue together, sometimes when I leave the house or in the car, it sets the tone for my game play on a positive note.

Sincerely:SS
 
this is the "Zone," when "the shooter and target become one"

Sloppy Pockets said:
Without a doubt. In spite of all the multi-million dollar Stradivarius and Guarnarius violins in the world, the old adage is "A great violinist carries his tone wherever he goes". Meaning that it resides in the player, and not in the instrument. Even with electric guitars and amplifiers, finger tone is what defines a great player's sound, not his equipment. Millions have been spent on equipment by aspirants trying to duplicate Stevie Ray's sound, but sadly that sound was silenced forever shortly after midnight on a foggy hillside in Wisconsin some 25 years ago.:(
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Good point!

I've always considered pocket billiards to be an art form, a way to express ourselves.

At the highest levels we transcend from us playing the game, to the game playing through us.....this is the "Zone," when "the shooter and target become one"

“Don't think of what you have to do, don't consider how to carry it out!" he exclaimed. "The shot will only go smoothly when it takes the archer himself by surprose.”
― Eugen Herrigel, Zen in the Art of Archery

'The Game is the Teacher'
 
I didnt get a response to this earlier so maybe it was missed.
So I repost, does it look to anyone that KO is uncocking on his backswing?
gordml said:
I just saw a good draw stroke from Ko Pin Yi in his match vs SVB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEqzgRNFqc&t=76m30s

I noticed that before the hand comes through on the final delivery you can see where he "uncocks " the wrist.
Its fast -(I had to pause then change the speed to .25 on youtube)
Is this what you've been talking about?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
the golf swing does the same thing, the wrists cock (at the top of the swing)

gordml said:
I didnt get a response to this earlier so maybe it was missed.
So I repost, does it look to anyone that KO is uncocking on his backswing?
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No, he's cocking his hand/wrist on his back-swing and un-cocking on his forward stroke. This isn't visible on shots that don't require power. The break is where you'll see the motion in an obvious way, in lesser shots it takes a more seasoned eye.

This is the same motion as casing a fishing rod, or hammering a nail.....the golf swing does the same thing, the wrists cock (at the top of the swing) and un-cock at impact.
 
I think the wrist is a major part of the stroke and especially on power strokes.

I have a tendency to "get lazy" and let my wrist wander and it definitely shows when I start doing this. I miss more and my position usually comes up short. I think being older and not playing much anymore makes me have to "concentrate" more because my muscle memory isn't what it used to be.

To ensure I have the right "cock to my wrist" and "bridge tension", I grasp my shaft in my closed grip during my last practice "stroke" before I lean down into the table and I "twist" the cue a half turn, or so, while I adjust my wrist into a cocked position and "grasp" the handle with my gripping hand. I know I have my cue adjusted right when I feel what I have determined to be the proper tension to control its motion the best. I feel my best control is when I'm gripping the cue rather tightly and I use the web of my hand and my first three fingers to hold the cue.

This may not work for anybody else, but it shortens my stroke a bit...keeps stroke length consistent, and ensures I have pretty much the same "feel" on every shot.

Aloha.
 
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allow your hand to open at the back and close at impact

HawaiianEye said:
I think the wrist is a major part of the stroke and especially on power strokes.

I have a tendency to "get lazy" and let my wrist wander and it definitely shows when I start doing this. I mess more and my position usually comes up short. I think being older and not playing much anymore makes me have to "concentrate" more because my muscle memory isn't what it used to be.

To ensure I have the right "cock to my wrist" and "bridge tension", I grasp my shaft in my closed grip during my last practice "stroke" before I lean down into the table and I "twist" the cue a half turn, or so, while I adjust my wrist into a cocked position and "grasp" the handle with my gripping hand. I know I have my cue adjusted right when I feel what I have determined to be the proper tension to control its motion the best. I feel my best control is when I'm gripping the cue rather tightly and I use the web of my hand and my first three fingers to hold the cue.

This may not work for anybody else, but it shortens my stroke a bit...keeps stroke length consistent, and ensures I have pretty much the same "feel" on every shot.

Aloha.
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This will work just fine - I create this technique in a similar fashion.

To make sure the wrist is cocked up correctly someone can also put the cue out in front of them at hip level and cock it up (with only the hand/wrist) to eye level. If you need to have more power cock up up past the eyes as far as you need.....then keep it cocked through the stroke, or if this creates too much tension in your shoulder and arm, allow your hand to open at the back and close at impact (in your own individual way, everyone may do this they way that feels best). 'The Game is my Teacher'
 
I want to discuss what "Connection Calibration" is and how to do it

Blaine B. said:
This is a great thread!
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Thanks, I've received a lot of positive feedback about the "hammer stroke" motion. There's another topic that relates, and that's how to get the most sensitivity out of your stoke in relationship to your hand......it's a part of what I call "Connection Calibration".

I want to discuss what "Connection Calibration" is and how to do it before anyone assumes it is another word for pre shot routine. A pre shot routine is simply a routine you do each time before a shot when you stand a certain way, and see what type of shot you're going to hit and then go through your own personal routine for accomplishing the shot. These routines are essential to actually play the Game, and you may want to incorporate things from the Connection Calibration and anchor it into your permanent routine. That's different.

When I'm doing Connection Calibration, I also do it before the shot, and this is where the similarity ends. For instance if I was doing the Calibration for my right hand I would show you how to put different parts of your hand on the "Line of the Shot", then shoot the shot and FEEL the shot sensation in THAT particular part of your hand. I use my knuckles and go from the index, to the middle, to the ring finger, to the pinky, shooting usually straight in shots for the "fullest hit and sensation".

I use the right hand (if right handed) because kinesthetically it's the most important "body part" because it is directly Connected to the cue and gives you the most "feed back". I believe it's important to understand where you get the most sensitivity in your hand and why.
 
It's' Hammer Time!!! Developing a precise, powerful, delivery to the cue ball.

I've now been doing the "Push Hammer Drill" drill every day for several weeks and it's made a noticeable improvement in my stroke and Targeting the cue ball as precisely as ever. It's a drill that requires you to get down and place the tip to the center of the cue ball and PUSH the ball into the pocket with just a Hand/Wrist/Forearm motion.....the practitioner must be very precise of the ball with squirt off path very noticeably, and when done correctly it grooves the stroke in a very effective way.

I put all 15 balls up two diamonds and "Push Hammer Style" all 15 balls down to the opposite corners and then repeat for a total of 30. Then I put the balls an inch off the rail and "Push Hammer Style" the balls again, with my cue elevated like I'm shooting off the rail.

This is a really effective way to groove the stroke and feel that "SLOT/TRACK" that I've referred to in this thread several times. I also shoot all the balls off the rail "Mexican Rotation" style after the "Push Hammer Style" drill to groove the stoke for acceleration.

I've been incorporating these drills in my lessons with noticeable results. I have an entire 3 hour training that I"m doing on request where I oversee the player do a regiment of the most effective drills I know.....it's like going through a workout, however the results are worth it for those that truly want to improve.
 
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