WTF Did I Just Buy? Old Cue ID Please!

Hunter

Hunter

The King of Memes
Silver Member
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Ringcue5.jpgHi all,

Well, I hope everyone had a great holiday season!

I just bought this cue and have absolutely no idea who it was made by. It appears to have a lot of features that you would see on old cues, but the features look like they were a compilation of several makers. I don't have it yet, but it seems to be a well made cue. Appears to be at least 40-50 years old...

The cue initially seemed to be a Doc Fry, as I had a Fry that had kind of the same ringwork in the butt (just not nearly as much as this cue). The joint seems to be reminiscent of Harvey Martin or a 1913 Brunswick with the pin in the shaft. The little round bumper looks like an early Viking. The red ring at the very end of the buttcap looks like Fedunka, Paradise, or George Gay. The wrap is twine and still tightly wound and in great shape.

Any guesses? Your input is greatly appreciated!

Steve
 
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I have no idea what you have there but I wish it were mine. I saw that and saved it to my favorites, I will do this just to see how much a item went for. It looks like a well made cue I have a feeling theres a few on this board that will know.
 
The shaft is threaded. Several 'old' rambow styles were like that. I useed to have the 8 champions sticks and the joints were as varied as you can imagine.

Helmstetter also made a real good billiard cue with a wooden thread.
All of this is just rambling - but could this be along the lines of an 'early' Schmelke.

They always had an 'unusual' joint.

mark Griffin

I am sure others gotta know more than me on this.
 
it looks to me like the pin is stuck in the shaft but is not supposed to be. if this is the case, it might be an early abe rich.

M.C.
 
curlyscues said:
it looks to me like the pin is stuck in the shaft but is not supposed to be. if this is the case, it might be an early abe rich.

M.C.
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great point, I was thinking the same thing because the pin in the shaft has no radius on the end. You would have to tap the butt joint with a bottoming tap if that were the case......very cool cue though!
 
Mark Griffin said:
The shaft is threaded. Several 'old' rambow styles were like that. I useed to have the 8 champions sticks and the joints were as varied as you can imagine.

Helmstetter also made a real good billiard cue with a wooden thread.
All of this is just rambling - but could this be along the lines of an 'early' Schmelke.

They always had an 'unusual' joint.

mark Griffin

I am sure others gotta know more than me on this.
Click to expand...


I also thought Schmelke when I saw the joint.
 
Hunter how about taking this thread to the cuemakers forum. I am curious and they might have some ideas:smile: The cue is cool!
 
Good idea, CB! Thanks to all for your input. I still don't have a clue and have talked to some knowledgeable folks. Let's see what the cuemakers think, too...


Steve
 
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Hi again,

I just got the cue and I am actually pretty pleasantly flabbergasted! The pin is in the shaft and looks like it belongs there (see pics). It is glued into the shaft wood and has a bevel on the end that I couldn't see in the pics that screws very nicely into brass threads in the butt.

The cue is obviously very old but in great shape. The rings are flush with the joint and are made of a chalk white phenolic with an obvious fabric finish that doesn't look like modern LBM. I thought there were a few marks on the butt from looking at the pics, but they were just gum like you'd see when you removed a label and they came right off. The old twine wrap is in better shape than I've ever seen (and I've had lots of old Brunswicks, etc. from the early part of the century). The little red acrylic band at the bottom of the butt is something I've never seen the likes of either. It looks kind of like the bottom plate of a Fry I had, the ones that Abe Rich and Doc shared, except a deep red color. It looks like the bumper is glued in, so I haven't checked it for the penny that Fry sometimes used.

I can't help but believe that this cue was made by one of the better makers of the time. The quality is much better than Viking, Adam, Gandy, etc., and I have a feeling it's older than any of those. Now it's just a matter of finding out "who done it". If you have any other ideas, please give me a shout!

Thanks,

Steve
 
Thanks for the new pics and the update. The little red ring on the bottom should be a clue to someone out there. I am no expert (except in my group of friends) but my guess is Harvey Martin. His fore ends were simple like that one and his early joints were very similar to the one on your new cue. The Billiard Encyclopedia page 294 shows a joint just like that one.
 
Is that a nylon wrap? If it is it could be any number of productions cues, like Adams, Rich (or Helmsteder). If it was custom made it probably would have a linen wrap.
 
Danny,

It's an old braided twine wrap like Brunswick had on their cues from the early 1900's, not the cheapo nylon wrap like you saw a lot of in the seventies. The wrap did look like nylon in a couple of the pics.

Cuebuddy,

That was my first thought, but there are things that wouldn't normally be thought of on a Martin, like a brass joint and the use of plastic, but he sure tried lots of different innovations for his time. One thing that does smack of Martin other than the pin, is the fact that the cue is 59 1/2" long (Martin used to customize lots of his cues to the player, not just use a standard length).

I took the cue out last night and was amazed how well it hit. It reminded me of an old Tad I had. I was also impressed to see that this old timer rolled straighter than 98% of the modern cues I have seen in the last few years. When I bought it, the guy said it rolled straight and I was thinking "Titlist straight" like many of the old cues from that era. You know, the old dancing lady roll where the ends dont lift, but there's a lot of wavy light under the cue. Not the case here, flat as a pancake.

The mystery continues...

Steve
 
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