WTF is "backhand english?"

wtf now I know

Thanks for asking this question crc. I have been using it for years and never knew it had a name. I tried to explain in a different post why I was having problems adjusting to low deflection shafts and this is the name for it, back hand english. I was self taught in the no information age. I heard of the tuck and roll but to me thats just one part of backhand english.:thumbup:
 
Roy Steffensen said:
haha, I started to watch the video but I have to know about pinot point or whatever, and I don't really have a clue what that is either... I just turned it off.

Keep it simple!
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I don't know if you are joking or if you just spelled "pivot point" wrong by mistake or on purpose.:confused:
JoeyA
 
Back Hand English description

I've spent a lot of time investigating and systametizing BHE since I learned about it a few years ago.

First I want to say that studying BHE has made me much more knowledgeable about the nature of the stroke, the bridge and all other aspects related to stroking and aiming. Even if I don't use BHE, I can quickly narrow down the reason for missing shots now.

Anyway, a summary and short history of BHE as I know it.

BHE is an aim & pivot system. It is essentially an aiming method, not a type of english. It ustilizes knowledge about one's pivot point to send the CB to the point where it is aimed when aligned through the center of the CB, despite the fact that you've since pivoted the cue and pointed it to the edge of the CB.

Basically the change in the cue angle equals the amount of deflection regardless of how far off center the CB is struck. It is a curious anomaly and potentially a very powerful one.

It seems most BHE users found it very accurate in predicting certain types of shots. Half ball cuts from a couple of feet away using IE (Inside English) might work very well for them, but the system would be less useful for them for longer shots, power shots, thicker cuts and shots using OE (outside english) unless they were near to the pocket.

The reason for this is that there were several other variables that had to be accounted for. The main two being swerve and throw.

With the help of Dr. Dave and tips from quite a few other physics enthusiasts I've been constructing a system for BHE which accomodates swerve and throw. In the past myself an others have pretty much been guessing adjustments to adapt to these variables but now they are being refined and made into a system that is hopefully accessable to any player who's willing to put a bit of time into practicing it.

Personally I think aim & pivot will be the dominant learning method for using english in years to come. I think it can teach a player how to shoot using english with pro level accuracy in 1/4 the time it takes using hit and miss, trial and error which is the traditional approach that I learned.

Colin
 
CrownCityCorey said:
I have seen many threads referring to this. :confused:

Can someone explain to me what that is?
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It's on a need-to-know basis and you don't need to know. Just keep making balls disappear the way you do it so effortlessly and let us mortals worry about these things.

:-)
 
Here's a rough illustration of what BHE is:

Let:
Dotted Line= line towards the center of cue ball and stretches towards the ghost ball
Triangle= bridge/pivot point
Marked red circle= aim on cb for english

bhe.jpg

Top illustration= center shot (both the bridge and the cue are aligned to the cball's center)

Mid illustration= back hand english (the bridge is aligned to the center of the cue ball while the cue is aimed towards the spot for english)

Bottom illustration= parallel english (both the bridge and the cue are aligned towards the aim spot for english and are parallel to the center line)

IMO, a good stroke will execute the bhe effectively as if you're using a low-deflection shaft even with a very stiff shaft
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
You probably do it subconsciously, Corey, and don't even know it.

Let's see if I get this correct (SIMPLIFIED definitions)....

Back-hand english: Your cue is aligned along the proper aim line. You move your back hand and pivot at your bridge to apply english. If you know the "pivot point" of your particular cue, it will cancel out deflection.

Front-hand english: You cue is aligned along the proper aim line. You move your bridge to apply english while keeping your back hand at its original position.

Parallel english: You move your entire cue parallel to the proper aim line to apply english (retarded, IMO)


Dave
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you should become a bca certified instructor because i learn a lot from your posts.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109237

could you upload a few more videos? i am training for the 2012 javelin olympic javelin events and i see a lot of connections between that and pool now. also, could you maybe cover 'throwing your cue sideways' -- i might want to participate in some row-boat competitions as well. thank you!!
 
sygfrid:
bhe.jpg

Bottom illustration= parallel english (both the bridge and the cue are aligned towards the aim spot for english and are parallel to the center line)
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I have to pick a nit about this - there's no such thing as "parallel english". To reflect reality your bottom illustration should look like this:

bhe.jpg

If you shift your shaft parallel to the shot line, then your CB will veer off the shot line because of squirt (the red line). The Pivot Point remains the same - in effect you've pivoted your shot line rather than your cue.

pj
chgo
 
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"Backhand english and front hand english or a combination of both are what people have been using for decades, it just never really had a name. LOLz
 
This may not be the place to ask this but here goes. How do you describe the english that is used by twisting the cue upon impact either to the inside or the outside? What I mean is if you are right handed when the tip is about to make contact with the cue ball the cue is then turned by the back hand (ie the right hand in this case) either inward or outward?
Dan
 
quedup said:
This may not be the place to ask this but here goes. How do you describe the english that is used by twisting the cue upon impact either to the inside or the outside? What I mean is if you are right handed when the tip is about to make contact with the cue ball the cue is then turned by the back hand (ie the right hand in this case) either inward or outward?
Dan
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That's a version of backhand english (and not a very good one, if you ask me).

BHE can be accomplished in two different ways:

1. Line up centerball, pivot your tip (by moving your backhand sideways) to apply sidespin, then stroke the shot straight along that new line. Let's call this method "straight-stroke BHE".

2. Line up centerball, take your practice strokes without pivoting, then pivot your tip by moving your backhand sideways during your final shot stroke to apply sidespin. Let's call this method "swooping-stroke BHE".

"Straight-stroke" BHE is better than "swooping-stroke" BHE because a swooping stroke is hard to repeat accurately. Twisting your wrist during your shot stroke is one way of doing "swooping-stroke" BHE. I recommend using "straight-stroke" BHE instead.

pj
chgo
 
Man! It's like I asked this question to the physics dept of MIT! LOL!

You are all pretty passionate about this stuff. :thumbup: <------my fav!

It seems to me, that my "knowing" what you all are talking about, will not help my game any; however it can allow me to communicate ideas, strategies, and techniques more effectively in the future.

Thanks!

There is definately no shortage of information on these forums!
 
CrownCityCorey said:
It seems to me, that my "knowing" what you all are talking about, will not help my game any; however it can allow me to communicate ideas, strategies, and techniques more effectively in the future.
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I think the more you know the better your game will be, whether or not you consciously try to use the information. Your subconscious makes use of lots of information that you don't even know you have, and your feel for the game will probably improve faster and better than it would without the knowledge, even though you might not be aware of it.

I think having more knowledge also makes it easier for you to execute shots you haven't practiced extensively, because your subconscious can "visualize" how to execute them using a combination of experience and knowledge.

Anyway, there's no point in not learning all you can - it can't hurt as long as you don't try to overthink things while you're playing.

pj
chgo
 
quedup said:
This may not be the place to ask this but here goes. How do you describe the english that is used by twisting the cue upon impact either to the inside or the outside? What I mean is if you are right handed when the tip is about to make contact with the cue ball the cue is then turned by the back hand (ie the right hand in this case) either inward or outward?
Dan
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Some people have called this "swooping into the english." I've called it "Dynamic Backhand English."

Fred
 
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