WWYD 14-1 End Pattern

iusedtoberich

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How would you play this end pattern?

Screen Shot 2020-10-11 at 5.38.14 PM.jpeg

Ball on table from top of pic to bottom are: 4, 2, 13, 11, 1, 7. Every ball goes everywhere.

The outline on the table is the outside of the delta 13 rack (thin). I got through it ok and into the next rack, but I'm almost certain I played it wrong:)
 

Bob Jewett

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The main decision is about break ball, 1, 2 , or 13. The easiest key-ball/break-ball pair is 8-13. The 13 can be a key ball for the 1 and 2.

A problem is the 7 ball since a ball there is hard to play position on unless there is a ball in the right place for it or you are OK with a long shot.

For the 13 break: 11 draw, 1 stun draw, 7, 2, 8

For the 2 ball break: 11, 1, 7, then 8, 13. From the 8 to the 13 two rails is most natural from above the ball but 1 or no rails is also possible depending on where you get from the 8.

For the 1 ball break: I'll take the long shot on the 7 to minimize cue ball movement: 11 roll forward, 7, 2, 8 13. Another consideration is that you want to get balls away from your break ball as soon as possible unless they are key balls. If I have to play the 11 from the area of the 2, I'll hit the 1.

If your speed and angle are right, you can roll the 1 in to start with and leave the 7 straight into the side. It looks close to on.

Also if your close position is working, you can play 11, roll through, 1 in the side, stun over to the right for the 7 in the lower-left corner, then 2, 8, 13 break.

The 8 is a very nice key ball for the 13 because half the table is good position for it.
 
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The_JV

Local_Pro
ok so I've been playing for a about a week now so my 14.1 pattern play isn't rooted so much in experience with the game but more so best methods in playing odds with position play.

To me, the only break ball is the 2. Sure there are other options, but those are merely alternates if I happen to screw something up on my road to the 2 ball shape.

I see two "problems" in the 11 and 8 (as in things that take a moment of consideration). Unless there is a hard fast plan in play that requires a different route. I will always clear "problems" first. The 11 is in a cluster, even though easily pottable. The bigger of the two problems is the 8. It's a lousey ball to use to reach the break ball (2), and requires actual shape play to get a useful angle.

You should consider that my game is rooted in snooker, and therefore a rest (rake, bridge, crutch) is like an arm extension for me and I'm extremely comfortable with it.

Here's my pattern: roll the 8 with a minor effort to get just below the 13. The slight back cut on the 13 allows me to stun to mid table. Now the rest is a shooting gallery. If I'm sloppy with the 13 then I still have the 7 to get back in line. If I come up overly straight on the 13 then I roll through it and play either the 11 or 1 in the opposite side.

In the end, the ball I would want to hit last to reach the 2 would be the 11. Funny as that seems after saying earlier that it was a problem. From pretty much anywhere you can roll the 11 and get a good angle on the 2. The 7 is more awkward for the purpose.

The short answer... Just wing it...lol
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
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I'm on board with Bob's pattern. In a vacuum, the eight may be the better break ball, but you have much simpler access to the thirteen for your break shot. Steve Mizerak was a great proponent of prioritizing simplicity of access first.
 

iusedtoberich

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Thanks all for the comments. I felt flustered with this one for sure. I didn't even think of the 13 as a break ball for some reason, I was only looking at the 1 or 2 as possible break shots. Maybe I'm so used to looking a the side of the rack for break balls only. The 4 (its the 4 not the 8 at the top of the picture) does lead great to the 13. I see that now.

Here is what I did. I had paralysis by analysis and just winged it after thinking about it too long.

https://youtu.be/yt6kj4ST9_g?t=124
End pattern starts at about 2 min.
 
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The_JV

Local_Pro
In a vacuum, the eight may be the better break ball, but you have much simpler access to the thirteen for your break shot. Steve Mizerak was a great proponent of prioritizing simplicity of access first.

Now that's interesting... I wouldn't have considered the 8 (4) as a good break ball. In my limited experience mind... That shot, assuming one long rail into the pack makes the CB a flier up table.

Coming at the pack from the bottom (13 break ball) would trap the CB to the bottom rail (aka: less options).

I figured the always preferred approach would be something along the lines of the 2 with a direct line into the side of the pack. Maximum potential for energy into the pack and fairly easy to control the CB position afterward.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Here is what I did. I had paralysis by analysis and just winged it after thinking about it too long.

https://youtu.be/yt6kj4ST9_g?t=124
End pattern starts at about 2 min.

lol... best method of course ;)

I would have gone into the pack a ton harder on the break shot though.

Crappy miss on that 13. The balls opened up nicely and should have been another 14 balls. Hard not to let down on the "easy" one when the table sitting pretty.
 

alstl

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I'm on board with Bob's pattern. In a vacuum, the eight may be the better break ball, but you have much simpler access to the thirteen for your break shot. Steve Mizerak was a great proponent of prioritizing simplicity of access first.

The 8 is a better break ball than the 1, 2 or 13?
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
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I think sjm meant the 2.

The downside of the pattern you chose is you were straight on the 11 and would not have had to disturb the 1 if you had taken the 11 first. 13 is a good key ball for either the 2 or the 1.

My preference would have been the 2 for the break shot with 4/13 as the final balls prior.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
The downside of the pattern you chose is you were straight on the 11 and would not have had to disturb the 1 if you had taken the 11 first. 13 is a good key ball for either the 2 or the 1.

He went the path I suggested but played the 13 relatively soft. Twice as hard would have given him three options with no concern about bumping anything.
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
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How would you play this end pattern?

View attachment 559670

Ball on table from top of pic to bottom are: 4, 2, 13, 11, 1, 7. Every ball goes everywhere.

The outline on the table is the outside of the delta 13 rack (thin). I got through it ok and into the next rack, but I'm almost certain I played it wrong:)

11 roll forward below the 13, then punch it up to the 2-4-7-1
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Now that's interesting... I wouldn't have considered the 8 (4) as a good break ball. In my limited experience mind... That shot, assuming one long rail into the pack makes the CB a flier up table.

Coming at the pack from the bottom (13 break ball) would trap the CB to the bottom rail (aka: less options).

I figured the always preferred approach would be something along the lines of the 2 with a direct line into the side of the pack. Maximum potential for energy into the pack and fairly easy to control the CB position afterward.

Sorry, I confused the eight for the two. My bad. The best break ball is the two, not the eight, but access to the thirteen is so simple that it's the best approach.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
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The 8 is a better break ball than the 1, 2 or 13?

I've corrected this in post 13. I mistook the two for the eight. It's the two that is best, but because access is limited, I'd play the pattern for the thirteen.
 

Island Drive

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The four to the 7 shape on the 1 gives you this. If you land on either side of the four, your position to the proper side of the 7 to the 1 is simple. Either cut it into the corner with a Huge position zone for proper shape on 1 cut coming two rails out (natural) for your/brake out angle, or if you come up short. just cut it in and play the side. Either side of the 7 will give you very good cue ball movement into shape for the 1.
 

VarmintKong

Registered
Great thread idea iusedtoberich. I love variations on a theme.

This is good practice for me because:
1. I have trouble committing to a break ball when there are other strong options, such as in this scenario. Instead of identifying my break and key ball and executing with that singular focus in mind. I sometimes second guess myself and try to save all the break ball options for last. This lack of focus often leaves me guessing at a keyball and frequently results in a safety play to start the next rack or worse, an attempted hero shot and sellout.

2. When the table starts to empty I often find myself moving the cueball a lot more than necessary. In this scenario I found myself trying to move the cueball quite a bit to get angle on the 7 and then again moving quite a bit across the short side of the table, which resulted in a couple break shots that were much too thick when I was playing for the 2.

I ended up identifying the 1 as my break ball and 7 as my key ball. Shot 4 to set up a back cut on 13. Stun for stop shot on the 2. Slow roll the 11 for soft follow on the 7. Left break shot within diamond of side pocket.

I did find that I had to nudge the 1 just a red one when shooting the 11, but it didn’t interfere with the next shot or break. Also I wonder if I should have tried to pocket the 11 sooner, but this seemed like a good route to minimize movement?

I haven’t tried a route to the 13 as break ball yet, but will another time. I really enjoy those below the rack breaks where you can hit below the apex with some follow and come out to mid table.

Thanks so much for an awesome thread.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
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I've corrected this in post 13. I mistook the two for the eight. It's the two that is best, but because access is limited, I'd play the pattern for the thirteen.

Would you go forward or draw the ball off the bottom of the rack?
 

Island Drive

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Rollin' the 11 to the 13 is the easiest shot, and if you come up short or long on the next stripe, your still in line. Once the 11 is gone, interference with the one ball is no longer there. KIS
 

iusedtoberich

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lol... best method of course ;)

I would have gone into the pack a ton harder on the break shot though.

Crappy miss on that 13. The balls opened up nicely and should have been another 14 balls. Hard not to let down on the "easy" one when the table sitting pretty.

On the break shot of the next rack, I went softer with draw because I was on the angle with the CB that is a fuller cut. From the old straight pool instructionals I watched years ago, they said to hit a shot like that with draw and softer, just enough to knock a few balls loose. IDK if that is still the preferred way in today's game...

On the next rack, I know why I missed the 13. I was elevated and shooting with a lot of spin (since the CB was partially blocked). It swerved in the direction of the english a lot more than I anticipated.

PS, my high run is 37, so I'm no expert by any means, and everything I wrote might be exactly wrong:). Oh, and I was also thinking I might beat my high run the way the balls opened up. I'm sure that distracted me.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
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On the break shot of the next rack, I went softer with draw because I was on the angle with the CB that is a fuller cut. From the old straight pool instructionals I watched years ago, they said to hit a shot like that with draw and softer, just enough to knock a few balls loose. IDK if that is still the preferred way in today's game...

On the next rack, I know why I missed the 13. I was elevated and shooting with a lot of spin (since the CB was partially blocked). It swerved in the direction of the english a lot more than I anticipated.

PS, my high run is 37, so I'm no expert by any means, and everything I wrote might be exactly wrong:). Oh, and I was also thinking I might beat my high run the way the balls opened up. I'm sure that distracted me.

Moose head bridge would have helped on that final shot. If you turn it on edge you get an extra high bridge on one side.

In the original diagram I like the 13 better for a key ball because as long as you stay above the 13 the cue ball doesn't have to travel as far to the 2 for position and speed isn't as critical because you aren't going across your line. The only question is whether you know what English to put on the cue ball to get to the 2.

Check out this pattern from Oliver Ortmann. I posted this match earlier but then deleted it when someone complained. Sometimes pattern play just depends on what the player is most comfortable with. Most people would have gotten rid of the balls up table earlier.

https://youtu.be/-Pqic66WYCk?t=3892

1:04:52
 
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