Yang vs. Orcullo

Jay,

You know, I find it interesting how people's opinion greatly sway to the other side just based on the result of one match. I will not consider Yang a definite better player than Orcullo even if he wins, while it does show me he has got a great game, and is capable of raising to the occassion.

For the same token, I will not consider Orcullo a worst or inferior player. He is just not playing well enough on the second day.

Now, it will be different if they play each other all the time, and one has always won.

By the way, the match is not over yet. Orcullo has not given up I am sure, so dont give up yet, Jay.:)

Richard
 
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X Breaker said:
Jay,

You know, I find it interesting how people's opinion greatly sway to the other side just based on the result of one match. I will not consider Yang a definite better player than Orcullo even if he wins, while it does show me he has got a great game, and is capable of raising to the occassion.

For the same token, I will not consider Orcullo a worst or inferior player. He is just not playing well enough on the second day.

Now, it will be different if they play each other all the time, and one has always won.

By the way, the match is not over yet. Orcullo has not given up I am sure, so dont give up yet, Jay.:)

Richard

I think Dennis is still a great player, but he is getting his head handed to him here. If they play several times, I have no doubt Dennis will find a way to win, just as he did when Van Van was beating him earlier this year.

For anyone to handle Dennis like this, he has to be a great player. I say let them play Ten Ball next time. And I'll bet on Dennis again...EVEN!
 
I just really wanted to see Jay win this bet to see if he would receive payment promptly from everyone. I really wanted to know that I could safely bet with known guys on this site and really get a check in the mail.

I have played for up to $500 race to 11 before but I really like to keep my bets to $100 or less because I know in my heart that I will not cheat and I will pay immediately but I cannot trust anyone very well due to being stiffed a few times by bigger guys so I feel I'm at a disadvantage when playing for $1000 because who knows what the guy will pull with his goons there or even over a controversial foul.

I commend Jay for making these bets knowing in his mind that he would pay but not being 100% sure on the other guys.

Even if he loses he has helped entertain himself and many others that didn't even bet and you can't put a price on that.
 
Amen to that, X Breaker.

I think Jay is just in shock (and in despair over his $1000) by the pummeling Dennis absorbed from Yang yesterday. Yang looked like the money game king of the universe on Day 2. But today is another day, and so is tomorrow...

This is both the beauty and the horror of 9-ball. The game is unpredictable and easy. In a 9-ball match, the better player does not always win. Last year, Yang lost to Jeff Bata at the Asiad (9-2), Ramil Gallego in the Asian Pool Tour, and Ralf Souquet in the WPC. Similarly, Dennis was beaten 9-1 by Gandy Valle in the Philippine Nationals last year, a player who normally takes a handicap from him. And yes Gandy took down Yang in the Asian tour to win one tour leg.

This is why here in the Philippines, Filipinos don't play 9-ball in the money game circuit. They prefer 10-ball, rotation, and occasionally 8-ball. The better player prevails 90% of the time.
 
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phoebe choy said:
It's funny you'd pick Alex.....he confided in me that he would NEVER bet against Yang in a money match - doesn't matter who he is playing!

That's pretty strong, and obviously Alex would know. My question is, would he bet ON Yang against anybody else?
 
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PoolBum said:
That's pretty strong, and obviously Alex would know. My question is, would he bet ON Yang against anybody else?


Good question.....maybe I'll ask him one day. Yet, I'm kinda curious, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a wager on ths match already!!! :rolleyes:
 
smashmouth said:
mariopatricio,

have you considered the possibility that Yang is simply the better player?

btw, i thought Dennis was gonna smoke him

I'm gonna jump in here, and I've not had time to read all the posts, and this may of been already said, but I'd like to see ANYONE gamble with Efren 15 ball rotation, win on the 15 only. FWIW
 
Dennis

Dennis best doesn't really comes out in a "tournament type " of setting like this one..camera and big crowd...this is a fact....just watch how he played with Archer at this year's DCC,,,my 6 year old daughter could have played better,,,,

and yet outside the tournament format- on money games --he was giving big handicap to any pro-player at the DCC ...

Yang wouldn't even play him for money last year at the WPC...

this is not an excuse if Dennis looses tomorrow...i really think the organizer of this event did not see this coming,,,that Dennis just doesn't play his best on this set-up...

..i bet Dennis will ask Yang to play "after hours" money match,,
 
saw that match last night. i believe yang is the better player.. he's mental game and composure, body expressions speaks for itself. dennis missed a couple of EASY shot last night. i believe yang will win it through..yes, outside the tournament format game or TV game it's different BUT wouldn't that be the greater challenge in front of millions of people watching you on TV plus the price money? not to mention the outside betting. i think you have to give your best in this type of setting..more pressure in this type of match... day 3 it'll be different but yang already figured the table condition and the big lead... dennis is a bit hesitant at times i've noticed... on yang..same facial expressions since day 1.. only the one with the ice cold heart will win this match... no excuses on who ever loses this.
 
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StevenPWaldon said:
I'm curious to see any video, only because I know Orcullo has a great 9-ball break. Lots of power, and incredible control.

Not on this match so far. Orcullo's break is killing him.

I have the recordings, still trying to figure out how to get them into my computer and cut the stinking commercials out. :(
 
Island Drive said:
I'm gonna jump in here, and I've not had time to read all the posts, and this may of been already said, but I'd like to see ANYONE gamble with Efren 15 ball rotation, win on the 15 only. FWIW

Umm, but that's not how Rotation is played...

Russ
 
arian dacongan said:
Dennis best doesn't really comes out in a "tournament type " of setting like this one..camera and big crowd...this is a fact....just watch how he played with Archer at this year's DCC,,,my 6 year old daughter could have played better,,,,

and yet outside the tournament format- on money games --he was giving big handicap to any pro-player at the DCC ...

Yang wouldn't even play him for money last year at the WPC...

this is not an excuse if Dennis looses tomorrow...i really think the organizer of this event did not see this coming,,,that Dennis just doesn't play his best on this set-up...

..i bet Dennis will ask Yang to play "after hours" money match,,


which means he's pressured in front of live crowds and televised matches... hmmmm
 
BlowFish, you'd be a prince to upload the match

as far as "luck" in nine ball, agreed when sets are short, NOT in a race
to 60
 
Johnnyt said:
Rotation is played many ways...money on the 15 only included. Johnnyt

I don't think "anyone" has the mental/creative depth to beat Effie at this type of game (win on the 15 only), he's too dam smart moving around the table when he's not pocketing balls.
 
Efren is also known to have backers and he doesn't always look motivated when he plays.

Now you put a gun to Efren's head and tell him to win or die and imo he beats the world without breaking a sweat, that's 8 ball, 9 ball, straights, one pocket AND banks
 
jay helfert said:
This must be for promotional purposes only. It is untrue that they haven't gambled before. I may have been given the wrong info on this by one of TV guys over there. Well, no one can say they haven't gambled now. That's for sure.

By Marlon Bernardino - January 24, 2007
The "Son Of Pool" To Conquer The "Cradle Of Pool"

MANILA, PHILIPPINES - EFREN “Bata” Reyes, Francisco “Django” Bustamante, Lee Van Corteza and Ronato “Ronnie Calamba” Alcano. All of them are in his victims’ list.

But just as Yang Ching-shun thought that he had beaten all the best Filipino cue artists, he was wrong for there is this guy named Dennis Orcollo he has yet to conquer.

So the “Son of pool” is coming back to the Philippines to meet its reigning money-game king, and once and for all complete his mighty conquest of the billiards capital of the world.

Yang will face-off with Orcollo in a race-to-60 match dubbed as “The Golden Pool Classic presents: Dennis Orcollo vs Yang Ching-shun it’s all about the money… and more” slated on April 20 to 22, and tentatively set at the Gateway Mall in Cubao, Quezon City.

Besides the prestigious claim of being the money-game king of the world, Orcollo and Yang will also dispute the $10,000 at stake in this three-day contest organized by the Bugsy Promotions and Rocketman Enterprises.

Though he holds no major title, the 28-year-old Yang is the most feared player in Chinese-Taipei that even the likes of his compatriots, former world champions Fong Pang-chao and Wu Chia-ching have taken his wrath.

“ Yang is really the best Taiwanese player today,” said Bugsy Promotions head Ceferino “Perry” Mariano.

“He may not be as popular as Fong and Wu, particularly to many of us Filipinos, but Yang is a very great player that almost everybody is afraid to face him, especially in a long one-on-one match like in money-game,” added Mariano.

“He is the money-game king of Taiwan.”

And he is trying to extend his territory to the Philippines.

During last year’s World Pool Championship, Yang, though not faring well in the tournament proper settling for just a round-of-32 finish, has created quite a tremor outside as he waylaid one after another all the players he met in a privately-arranged money-game matches reportedly.

Among his victims then was the former world no.1 Bustamante, whom he siphoned P150,000. Even Alcano, the eventual WPC champion, did not escape Yang’s fury, surrendering P150,000.

It was in Taiwan, meanwhile, where Yang demolished Reyes and again Bustamante.

“ It’s only Orcollo the remaining top Filipino player who Yang has yet to meet. That’s why we arranged this match to know if that Taiwanese guy really has the Filipinos’s number,” said Rocketman top honcho Ramon “Mon” Tuason.
The 28-year-old Orcollo is heavily regarded as the best money-game player in the Philippines that no one dared to challenge him except in a handicapped match with him giving the opponent an advantage huge advantage most of the time.

Moreover his home soil, this Surigao del Sur native has been making mammoth waves in the international money-game scene, most recent of which was in the 2007 Derby City Classic in Kentucky a couple of weeks ago, where he stole the spotlight from the tournament proper by winning a couple of nationally-televised side events in sweeping fashion, as well as a number of money-game matches.

Unfortunately, Orcollo is not as lucky in formal tournaments, where his greatest achievement so far is the title conquest of the 2006 World Pool League.

In that category, he ranks below the likes of world champions Efren "Bata" Reyes, Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan, and Ronato "Ronnie Calamba" Alcano, all of whom he usually beat in the money-game.
-----------------------------------------

Yang also has ever said he wasn't familiar with Orcullo, and never met Orcullo before.
 
mariopatricio said:
Amen to that, X Breaker.

I think Jay is just in shock (and in despair over his $1000) by the pummeling Dennis absorbed from Yang yesterday. Yang looked like the money game king of the universe on Day 2. But today is another day, and so is tomorrow...

This is both the beauty and the horror of 9-ball. The game is unpredictable and easy. In a 9-ball match, the better player does not always win. Last year, Yang lost to Jeff Bata at the Asiad (9-2), Ramil Gallego in the Asian Pool Tour, and Ralf Souquet in the WPC. Similarly, Dennis was beaten 9-1 by Gandy Valle in the Philippine Nationals last year, a player who normally takes a handicap from him. And yes Gandy took down Yang in the Asian tour to win one tour leg.

This is why here in the Philippines, Filipinos don't play 9-ball in the money game circuit. They prefer 10-ball, rotation, and occasionally 8-ball. The better player prevails 90% of the time.

now your saying somthing totally different then what you said earlier.

"Gandy took down Yang in the Asian tour"

that is totaly different. anybody is allowed to win in a tournament. even i win in a tournament. dont mean i can beat anybody...
for the cash ? nobody has to like gandy against yang. he needs weight in a race to 30 and i dont care if its 9 or 10 ball.
 
Luxury said:
I just really wanted to see Jay win this bet to see if he would receive payment promptly from everyone. I really wanted to know that I could safely bet with known guys on this site and really get a check in the mail.

I have played for up to $500 race to 11 before but I really like to keep my bets to $100 or less because I know in my heart that I will not cheat and I will pay immediately but I cannot trust anyone very well due to being stiffed a few times by bigger guys so I feel I'm at a disadvantage when playing for $1000 because who knows what the guy will pull with his goons there or even over a controversial foul.

I commend Jay for making these bets knowing in his mind that he would pay but not being 100% sure on the other guys.

Even if he loses he has helped entertain himself and many others that didn't even bet and you can't put a price on that.

In this day and age, it would be very easy for Jay to do a quick lookup on a person with just the name and address. Especially for USA people, a Google search, with a Zillow.com search on the persons address tells alot about who is dealing with. The internet is a powerful tool to evaluate a person's ability to pay.

Don't discount the shame factor either. Especially for high post count people, these are pool nuts and you know how it is...pool players may stay away for a bit...but they always come back. For a hundred or two...what pool nut is gonna be a nit when you know he will be outed, by name, as a major league welsher.

There is always risk, but I dont think Jay took on alot of it here with a handful of 50-300 bets.
 
This is gonna be a long match. Dennis needs to win 32 games to reach 60 Im hoping he can pull it off :D
 
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