You say APA is for bangers?

As I said this is my first year playing spa 9 ball league. I'm told I have to come in at least as a 7 as known player. I promise you I won't sand bag. I only know one way to play and thats all out....If it hurts us oh well and the team I'm playing with feels the same way.
 
justadub said:
Bullspit.

I've been on 5 or 6 different teams, co-captained a couple, and this has NEVER happened.

Perhaps you only know and/or associate with people inclined to cheat?
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All the APA players I met has been random. I play them in a tournament, and they ask "what's your rating"? Then I hear the whole "I'm only a 5 because it's easier to win that way" story. One of my best friends joined an APA team, he was told to not run out too much so he does not go up.

The only APA player I met in 20 years that plays to his ability is my brother in law.

Maybe I live in the state of cheaters, who knows.
 
Banks said:
I've never told my teammates either of those. Practicing being worse will not make you better. Anybody can make any excuse they want, it all comes down to whether or not you want to improve and are willing to put forth the effort.

Are you one of those BCA players that likes to poke at the APA, but "play even" with 4s and 5s? I play both and people with mindsets like that are a dime a dozen. Most couldn't max out their handicap if they tried.
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When I said I play even with the lower ranked players I meant that they are NOT really 4s and 5s. Rather people that should be about at the top of the APA ranking. My brother-in-law and I are about even in skill, he's a 9 in the APA, so I know how I would compare against an APA ranked player. If I play someone and they run out 6-7-8-9 balls at a time, every time, then say they are a 5 in the APA, eh.. that's a bit shady to me.

Every league gets these people, which is why I don't play on any of them :)
 
I think their system actually encourages people to cheat due to the 23 rule. They say it is so a team won't just start owning a league basically.. but isn't that what happens/can happen in every other league out there? Do we take Tom Brady off the Patriots when they go undefeated in the regular season? Why didn't they break up the Bulls when Jordan was playing?

I think it's just silly, and from the sounds of it they just don't want it to happen because other players/teams in that league will quit knowing they can't/probably won't win their trip to regionals or w/e. Another example of the "entitled" sense that so many of us are developing these days. Well I can't beat them, so I just won't play.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I don't say the APA is for bangers. It's also for good players to don't try to win in order keep their handicaps low. I doubt there is a single team out there that has not told their top players "don't try to win too hard" or "extend your innings so you don't go up".

I play even with guys at tournaments that say they are a 4-5-6 in the APA where they should clearly be 7+

I guess the "APA is for cheats and bangers".
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i am not going to say there are not sandbaggers in the apa, i am sure there are. i dont think it is as prevalent as every body posting here claims. you have to realize that there are people in every league in every town that will utilize the rules to their benefit, thats just a fact of life.

your last sentence strikes me funny. the 1st time i ever played in a league was 5 years ago. it was bcapl. when i quit after a year i was a 7. i quit playing pool at all until last year when i joined apa. i am now a 5 and no i dont sandbag.

i thing the biggest issue on here when posters are talking about apa vs bca is forgetting you are comparing apples to oranges. these 2 leagues are played under entirely different formats.

in bca you are playing in a point system and your true handicap can be misconstrued over an entire session. its also more of a team vs team format in stead of player vs player matchup like on the apa.

consider this... when i was in bca i used to murder 3s and 4s , i would run 4 or 5 balls and then they would run 3 or then i would run out. on any given night i would have 3 or 4 points that i did not make, they were due to my opponent making 2 different balls on the break and i was awarded a point for the ball he did not choose. also you are awarded for any other balls that your opponent make of yours over the night.

over the entire session it is possible to be awarded 20 points or more for shots you did not make. that is not a true reflection of your actual handicap.

in bcapl you play every one once. it is possible to play 2- 3s , 2 4s and maybe a 6 or a 7. even against a 6 or a 7 i am goin to make 5 or 6 points unless he has a break and run.

in apa it is 1 player vs 1 player matchup. most times the captains try to matchup pretty equal players. it is a must win each game. the loser does not get credit for each ball made. that reason alone is why i prefer playing in apa. i can fade the slop when i have to play a lower level player occasionally :wink:
 
paksat said:
I think their system actually encourages people to cheat due to the 23 rule. They say it is so a team won't just start owning a league basically.. but isn't that what happens/can happen in every other league out there? Do we take Tom Brady off the Patriots when they go undefeated in the regular season? Why didn't they break up the Bulls when Jordan was playing?

I think it's just silly, and from the sounds of it they just don't want it to happen because other players/teams in that league will quit knowing they can't/probably won't win their trip to regionals or w/e. Another example of the "entitled" sense that so many of us are developing these days. Well I can't beat them, so I just won't play.
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i just dont see what the big deal is over 2 points. really in my opinion bcapl might as well not have any handicap limit under their 8 ball point format.

when i was playing in bca a few years ago they started a money league under bca rules . i entered a team and the leage operator asked me how we were going to be competitive, i said it was simple, we will just outrun the points we give up.

there were 2-8s, 2-7s , 1-6 and 2 -5s on the team. we adjusted our handicap to the level of the team we faced.

if we played a team with 25 handicap,say they were a 7,2-5s and 2-4s. we loaded our team with the 2-8s ,2-7s and our 6. that gave us 36. we gave up 11 plus our lowest handicap which would be 17 points total. it is easy for a top loaded team like that to win by 3.1 points per game every night. we placed 1st both sessions i played before quitting pool for a few years.

if we played a lower handicap team we adjusted our handicap accordingly.
 
JDB said:
There are a lot of very strong players that play in the APA. Personally, I really enjoy APA Masters where there are no handicaps; however, there are several strong players that play in the handicapped divisions as well.
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yeah but for every good player in the apa there are 20 bad beginners
 
poolplayer2093 said:
yeah but for every good player in the apa there are 20 bad beginners
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Yep, people have to begin somewhere. I don't see anything wrong with that and totally agree with you here.

The APA is not for everyone, particularly high level players that don't want to deal with beginners; however, there are some high level players that enjoy coaching the beginners.

It is just up to the different players to figure out what they enjoy.

Personally, I enjoyed the handicapped divsions for a while but got tired of always looking for low level players when we had to split up so now I play in the Masters divisions where I really don't have to worry about it. When someone quits in Masters, it is relatively easy to find another relative strong player to take someone's place.

Just a different perspective.
 
paksat said:
I think their system actually encourages people to cheat due to the 23 rule. They say it is so a team won't just start owning a league basically.. but isn't that what happens/can happen in every other league out there? Do we take Tom Brady off the Patriots when they go undefeated in the regular season? Why didn't they break up the Bulls when Jordan was playing?
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Tom Brady gets to stay on the Patriots, but he won't be handing off to Adrian Peterson or throwing to Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson any time soon. And the Bulls weren't broken up because there was nothing to break up. If any of the scrubs playing with Jordan had actually developed into premier players, they would have had to leave the team to get paid.

In professional sports, talent/ability translates into money, and these leagues ALL limit the money a team can spend on players in one form or another. So yeah, all these leagues DO have their own version of the 23 rule. They have salary caps, free agency rules, and drafts, all designed to spread the talent around.
 
KoolKiller said:
I played APA for about 2.5 years now and I'm on my last session with APA. It was great at first but as I improve my skills I started getting all the talks from the captain to play low and not try to win. I hated this but I looked around and realized if I go up again another level, my team will not even have a chance at the city wide due to 23 rule:angry::angry:

The other annoying thing I get is that when I played well and won big, most people would tap on my shoulder and joked about "me sandbagging". I played much better offense than my close to "0" defensive plays so when I have a lights out shooting night, I became a sandbagger.

In general it was APA that got me back into pool after being off for about 11 years. I think it's a great league for lower skill level players who are not seriously seeking improvement. However, I don't think it's a "bangers" league. There are a lot of great players in my local area and they seem to enjoy playing APA. I guess these players enjoy playing APA as a night out with friends, not a way to improve themselves.

Just my $0.02
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All the posters so far do NOT realize how the APA works. In the long run sandbaggers will get bumped up, one way or another. Over the many years I have played I see teams adjusting to the 23 rule by breaking up all the time. Why? Because players do improve. And IMO, this is the way it should be. They system is geared to bring in lower handicapped players and I ask you - DOESN'T AMERICA WANT THIS?!!!!!! More pool players. You guys would cut off your nose to spite your face.

Why are handicapps adjustded not only by the APA scoring system? Because the team captains meet ever so often to raise (or lower) handicapps of individual players. Also, at the national level, you are secretly watched by officials and if you are determined to be sandbagging, they will raise your handicapp on the spot.

I have played in the TAP league and NONE of the above happens. In my last session I saw APA SL7s go down to SL4s. Everybody was tanking - so bad - it became a joke and everybody just quit TAP.

In 1999 our TAP team won the Ralley in the Valley. There were APA 7s who were ranked as SL 3s in the TAP tournament. We played over our heads to win, and there were other teams who advanced to the finals without sandbagging. For some reason the sandbagging teams got beat and to me this was hilarious.
 
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