Your man in Manila

nipponbilliards said:
Jay,

Good luck in China.

I heard the tables are very different in China, it is more like a mini snooker tables, is that true?

Thanks for the post.

Richard

It was a regular pool table with close to 5" pockets. A Chinese brand, Shenkan or something like that. It played okay, about like playing on a home style table here. My problem was more the cheap cue than the table. I have some tools now and will go back tonite.
 
Roadie said:
Is that $100 USD or 100RMB per game? If $100 USD you have found some real good action. I haven't been able to find anyone who plays for more than 30rmb a game. For those that don't know, the exchange rate is 8rmb to 1 USD. The average wage is around 2000RMB/month in the cities. So $100US per game is HUGE ACTION for pool in China according to my limited experience. I have seen Mahjong played for a $100US per man per round.

I just know that there has to be larger action around given the Asian love of gambling. Just like you Jay to find it!! Shame on you taking your girl to the poolroom....I know, i'd have done the same thing.

This was 100 dollars Chinese or RMB's. As you know this is the largest bill they have in China. It was not hard to get them to play this high. This guy and his friend are in the real estate business in Guangzhou. They gave their card to my GF. I think the One Pocket game is over and I must play Eight Ball now.

The Pool Room is in the huge sports complex with many soccer fields, dozens of basketball courts, bowling, table tennis and kick boxing.

There is wealth in Communist China. We visited one of my girl's friends last night in an area that looks like uptown Manhattan. People are driving Mercedes and Lexus. We went to a nice restaurant and the bill was 161 rmb, most expensive meal I have had yet. No tipping anyway. And you still get better service than in U.S.
 
The equipment where I am is much better. Of the six pool rooms I have been in all of them have Gold Crown copies in them and they play just like a GC. The house cues are all two piece cues similar to Action/Sterling/Players types and well maintained. Additionally, for 80rmb you can become a member of the club and they give you a cue to keep at the club.

I absolutely echo your other experiences. In fact I am going to play in a tournament tomorrow and I'll probably be playing this evening.

You were playing for $12.50 a game though :-) Pretty funny when you think about it - I bet you enjoyed the score just as if you had been playing for $100 US. I won 450rmb the other night in a bar of all places. I walk in and they have one 9 footer. So I play 8 ball against the only other patron and just flat out play and run all over him. After getting trounced several games he asks to bet 50 a game so I say sure. Then 100 a game, no problem. 450 later I am feeling pretty satisfied because I just paid for dinner, the night club, and the long taxi ride home. Nice little score even if it was just $46.

You are down the coast from me. I might try and make it to Manila. Business will probably prevent it but I will try.

As you probably know by now, the word for pool is Tai Chu, pronounced Tie Choo. Literally Table Ball. Try and find a place with the gold crown copies, the brand is King Brown ( I know, I know) If you find a room like the ones up here you'll be pleasantly surprised. Although you might not find the same kind of action. Enjoy!
 
Richard, there are tons of outdoor tables - not meant to be outdoor tables I am sure but they are outside that the Chinese play 8 ball on with snooker sized pool balls. The tables are like miniature snooker tables with rounded pocket sides. There are also some "pool rooms" with these tables inside. I haven't seen one of those I wouldn't describe as a real dive though.

There are also a lot of real pool rooms like you can find in Taiwan. Over 10,000 in China right now by some conversation I have had on this subject.

These places are mostly first class all the way around.
 
China Days

Roadie said:
Richard, there are tons of outdoor tables - not meant to be outdoor tables I am sure but they are outside that the Chinese play 8 ball on with snooker sized pool balls. The tables are like miniature snooker tables with rounded pocket sides. There are also some "pool rooms" with these tables inside. I haven't seen one of those I wouldn't describe as a real dive though.

There are also a lot of real pool rooms like you can find in Taiwan. Over 10,000 in China right now by some conversation I have had on this subject.

These places are mostly first class all the way around.


I saw these little tables a few times while riding the bus with Amy. Yes, playing for 100rmb is only about $13-14 a game, by the exchange rate. But 100rmb has the about the same purchasing power of $50 US here in Guangzhou. I am staying in a decent hotel for 148rmb a night. We eat out for 5-10rmb for lunch and 30-40 for nice dinner. Taxi ride for several miles, 15-20rmb. Grocery shopping for one week of food, 80 rmb.

Of course, in the upscale neighborhoods of Guangzhou, prices go up. We took Amy's friend to a fancy restaurant. 161rmb for all three of us - maybe $25. I bought sandpaper and scotchbrite pads yesterday (all of 4rmb) so I can work tip on cue and clean shaft when I go back. All my poolplayer instincts are coming out. lol

Yesterday we went to Congsua for Amy to get her Single Certificate at government office. Major hassle, finally they give it to her. 520rmb - robbery. Virtually everything is government control here with no real legal system to protect people. Forget about a Civil suit, it does not exist here. It is strictly let the buyer beware.

To get my Amy to the US will not be easy. I will have to work hard for this girl. But she is worth the effort.

There are night clubs here with a pool table, but Amy does not want me to go. I think because of "working girls" there. So far I stay away to make here happy. I tell her I have no interest in other girls (true), only to play pool.

Today we went to the Communist Movement Park. Large (180 acres) and beautiful, it commemorates the Communist uprising of 1927. I watched young soldiers train in martial arts. During their break they look at me and Amy and laugh and smile. I am used to this attention by now. People stare at us everywhere. I see no mixed couples here. Only us.

Three more days and off to Manila for the Pool Thrilla.
 
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Well, I have you beat so far in the action department. Yesterday I went to a 60 table pool room where I have been earlier in the week and where I am now a "member" with my own cue there. On the table next to me two guys are playing a game with cards and paying off every game. Now you know we love games that involve pool balls, cards and money!

So I ask if I can play and my friend helps me to learn the rules. The game is full rack and each player gets seven cards out of 15 dealt to them - there is one neutral ball - the last card. You win by being the first to clear all your balls without scratching or making any ball thats not yours. The payoff is 20rmb per ball that the oppent has left - 140 if you clear and leave him with all seven.

My opponent can play. Older guy with a smooth stroke, nice touch, but not as knowledgeable about shots or cueball control as he needs to be to clear up when the out is a bit tricky. So I quickly win about 500 and then another guy wants in.

The three way game is much tougher - each player gets five cards and you keep your cards hidden instead of showing them as in the two way game. Now it's tougher to get out when you have to run five particular ones out of fifteen and you can't make any of the opponent's or you are out. But, as is the case in ring games all over the world - the reward for getting out is far more than the investment! So, if these two aren't trying to trap me - which they weren't!! I feel like I have the nuts over the long run. Of course in the three way game it's possible that I might get real unlucky and not have good out chances several games in a row. So we played that way for a while and I ended up about 200 winner. I blew several outs that would have earned me 200 on those games but no problem. After a while guy #2 give up and it's back to a 2 player game.

So I go on to win another 500 from guy #1 and when he is down several hundred more he tells me through a translator that he doesn't want to gamble anymore - so I forgive him the money and say no problem and keep playing for free.

The game is actually a great game because the cards seem to dictate a random layout each time. You could play the same game as a two player game by just playing 8 ball usig the same rules with the 8 as the neutral ball - this would eiminate the need to do the ritual with dealing the cards each time. Although I think it's fun to pick up the cards and see how "lucky" you got with the deal and the layout.

The three handed game was a lot of fun as well with everyone keeping their cards hidden. Like Kelly pool or poker pool (not the new commercial version).

Because of my one-pocket and nine ball skills (mostly one pocket) I was able to get out and outmove for the win more than my opponents because I used a lot of standard one pocket shots and moves.

Another tactic I used was if I couldn't get out - then I just ran off all the balls I could to minimize the cost to me. They weren't doing that it seemed as they would often take on the trouble ball early and sell out. For me - if I could see that I wasn't going to have much chance to win then I just wanted to get out of that game as cheaply as possible.

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Okay, while we are on the subject (not to hijack your thread Jay but since we are on this topic.) I played in another ring 9-ball game a few weeks ago that is tailor made for the better player to win, unlike 9 ball ring games in the USA where the best player might not get a makeable shot in 10 games.

In this 3 (or more) player game the person who make the money ball gets paid by the person who sold out - EXCEPT for a break and run when the winner gets paid double by everyone. And in the three handed version the person who won gets to break and the person who sold out the previous game follows the breaker. Here is the TAILOR MADE part:

Say I am the best player in the game. When it's my shot I can either go for the run out or play safe. Because not losing (i.e. not selling out doesn't cost me anything.) As long as I hold my man then he pays the guy behind him if he sells out and I am not in the game until the next time I shoot. So my options are great. I either win and get another opportunity to break and run for double - or I don't LOSE by selling out and I pay nothing. So it would take some incredibly BAD LUCK for the me to end up with no shots AND to sell out enough to end up signifigantly loser. Chances are that when I have to kick or jump that my opponent won't get out anyway.

But EVEN if they do, guess what? I don't have to be at the end of the line BECAUSE if I lose a game then who get's to follow the breaker? That's right, I do. So now I have a chance right away to get back the game I lost and stay winner. See, the best player in the game just can't lose at this ring game.

In this particular instance I was giving up weight - one player got the seven and the other one got the eight and I still took it down. From a percentage standpoint it's the dead nuts against weaker players. Whereas in a USA style nine ball ring game the weaker players have a lot more chance because the stronger player might not get good opportunities for many games and he is at the back of the line when he misses.

Jay, there has to be real poolrooms there. (the style of commercial table we are used to)

The bus??? Dude, rent a car and a driver for $30-40 a day! Don't hassle with the bus - tour or otherwise. You are on vacation, enjoy.

Bureacracy. Yeah it can be tough but I have noticed that there are also some efficiencies as well. This society is rapidly developing on a lot of fronts. On some things the cost seems out of line while on others it's ridiculously cheap. I am learning that there is often a lot of depth to the reasoning behind the regulations in addition to some that seem rather overprotective and redundant.

It is my understanding that they do have civil suits here. The legal system is better or worse depending on where you are though. The people I deal with say that if you drive - don't ever hit anyone or you will be paying dearly for a long time as all their relatives attach claims. :-)

This has been long winded. It would be nice to meet you while we are so close but in terms of ability I can't come down so enjoy your stay and you wil be envied while in Manilla.
 
Jay,
May be you can buy a cue while you are down there, I heard you can get a decent cue for about $10 USD, is that true?
I remember meeting a guy who just came back from China, he told me he saw some Predator cues there for sales, and everyone thought the price was insane because they only make about $200 to $300 a month. He told me he could buy a decent cue with a metal joint for $10.
But my friend also told me it does not mean they are poor, becasue $300 can go a long way in China. It is just a different living standard.
Richard
 
I finally make it back to the sports complex last night. The poolroom is in a huge complex with 40 bowling lanes, about two dozen ping pong tables and a huge video arcade with some very cool games that I have not seen in the U.S. I ask my girl who owns this place, the government? No she says a private person does.

Wow, what a business. Must be close to 100,000 square feet overall, and packed every night. Pool costs 35rmb an hour (about 4.50), bowling is 25rmb a game and ping pong about the same as pool. Video games are 2 to 4rmb a game. This place is doing BIG business. They must have over 100 employees working here. Girls to rack the balls in poolroom, and many young girls behind every counter. Yes, now I know why they can sell Mercedes and Bentley here. Someone is cleaning up. My best guesstimate is that they are grossing $10-15,000 US a day. Big bucks anywhere and huge in China.

I suspect you must be well connected to hook up a deal like this. And maybe paying off someone in government offices too. Much more interesting to me then playing some guy for 100rmb. I get into the poolroom early, there are two tables open and I take the back table. It is a tight pocket (4.5") Shender table that looks like a Gold Crown copy. I look over the small selection of cues (all 2 piece cheapies) and find one that is straight. Very short cue, maybe 56". Feels okay though, so I go to work on the tip.

I use my sandpaper to round it off and rough it up. And my scotchbrite to smooth out the shaft. Hey, I can now draw the ball. With accuracy! I practice for an hour or so, and am starting to get in stroke here. I am running out every other rack or so. Where's Jamie??? He calls Amy each day looking for me, and now I am here, he is a no-show. Amy has gone to dinner, so I am alone with the table. After two hours of practice, I take a break and look around. I am 7,000 miles from home in a strange land, in a poolroom.

I look around the room. All tables are full, and there is the constant chatter of Chinese, a language totally foreign to me. Occasionally there is laughter, and a little shout of glee when someone makes a ball. On the table next to me, two young couples are banging them around. A tiny girl makes a bank shot by accident and they all laugh. I feel at home! Totally comfortable with my surroundings. It is all so familiar to me. I realize I am always at home in a poolroom. I feel happy and content.

No one comes to play with me, so I quit, and wander next door to watch the ping pong. On the back table, two pros are playing and people sit nearby and watch. I join them and marvel at their ability. They slam the ball back and forth, standing several feet back from the table. Their skill and hand-eye coordination is mind boggling when seen up close. How? How? How? Finally Amy and her friend find me. They have brought me some dinner. I eat and watch more ping pong, then we go.

At home in the hotel, I turn on the sports channel and lo and behold, it is the Premier Snooker League on now. Ronnie O'Sullivan vs. Stephen Hendry. So cool, I could never see this in the U.S. Short match, Race to Five and Hendry dogs an easy 7 ball, and O'Sullivan wins 5 to 1. I'm sure it is taped, as next they show the Finals between O'Sullivan and Mark Williams. A Race to Six. Amazing how easily they can run a century. O'Sullivan makes one total clearance for the high run of 132. It must take him all of 10 minutes max.

Williams responds with a 105 next game. Hey, these guys can play. I am transfixed and watch it all as O'Sullivan wins 6-3. The commentary is in Chinese, but I don't even notice. All I see is pure gold Snooker. Amy is in bed now, and calling for her Papa. I must go. See you all later.
 
I hate to break this to you Jay, but I don't think you're in China. It sounds like you've died and gone to heaven!
 
Sounds like your enjoying your time in China Jay, when are you heading to Manila?
 
PoolBum said:
I hate to break this to you Jay, but I don't think you're in China. It sounds like you've died and gone to heaven!

Good shot Pool bum.
 
I head over to Manila tomorrow for the Knockout stages, the final 64. It is only a short two hour flight from Hong Kong. I will be there the rest of the week, sending reports daily. You will find all the results every day on AZ's home page. I want to give you the behind the scenes stuff. Let's see what I can dig up.

My prediction this year. Well, if the winner is not Filipino or Chinese, I will be surprised. They both have very strong contingents of players.
 
jay helfert said:
I head over to Manila tomorrow for the Knockout stages, the final 64. It is only a short two hour flight from Hong Kong. I will be there the rest of the week, sending reports daily. You will find all the results every day on AZ's home page. I want to give you the behind the scenes stuff. Let's see what I can dig up.

My prediction this year. Well, if the winner is not Filipino or Chinese, I will be surprised. They both have very strong contingents of players.

The Europeans have been 'saying' Michael Schmidt, let us know how he's hittin' em, scary is the word.
 
Are you in HK now Jay? Please checkout Joe's Billairds. I have link on my sig. Hope to see you and the rest of the posters here in Manila.
 
BlowFish said:
Are you in HK now Jay? Please checkout Joe's Billairds. I have link on my sig. Hope to see you and the rest of the posters here in Manila.

Still in Guangzhou. Have to take the bus or train over to HK. Either today or early in the morning. My flights at 11AM.
 
I know. After the tournament yesterday I went to get a foot massage for an hour. I walked out of there like I was walking on air and headed down to another poolroom. 40-50 tables and totally packed. If I retire it might be to China to start a poolroom here for the twilight of my life.

Look forward to hearing your voice in the announcer's booth.
 
Hi Jay

jay helfert said:
I head over to Manila tomorrow for the Knockout stages, the final 64. It is only a short two hour flight from Hong Kong. I will be there the rest of the week, sending reports daily. You will find all the results every day on AZ's home page. I want to give you the behind the scenes stuff. Let's see what I can dig up.

My prediction this year. Well, if the winner is not Filipino or Chinese, I will be surprised. They both have very strong contingents of players.

Thanks in advance for your report on the happenings in Manila, Jay....I will be interested in learning of what action might occur with all those gambling sharpshooters over there......will be looking forward to your postings....
 
Jay, allot of people are wondering why John Schmidt is not in, and Stlev too.
 
Island Drive said:
Jay, allot of people are wondering why John Schmidt is not in, and Stlev too.
It is my understanding that John had some personal things going on here to take of and decided against going. I spoke to him briefly last week to let him know about the IPT "postponing" the Chicago event. He mentioned something he was going to be doing this week which prompted me to ask. When he said he had some personal things going on to take care of, I left it at that and did not ask anymore questions.
 
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