something_pool said:

I never said Gorst wasn't a great player. I said that MOT titles don't determine that. You can't just look at Reyes' 5 MOT titles and say that that's the benchmark for equaling his greatness as a player. It would be like saying Buddy Hall wasn't one of the all time greats because he doesn't have a world championship -- that misses that there was no world championship until he was already well past his prime.

"Best" is not the same as "greatest." Fedor is probably already a "better" player than Efren was -- that's the nature of progress in every sport; the younger players learn from the older ones and stand on the shoulders of giants. But that's not the same thing as being a "greater" player: context matters, and access to information also matters. Inventing new knowledge is harder than learning that same knowledge.

I personally don't think that Fedor (or anyone) has revolutionized the game in the way that Efren has, but that's not to say that it's impossible.

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something_pool said:

I don't think it's arguable that Efren's prime was after he turned 44 years old. Yes, Efren won lots of events in 2003-10, but many of those events didn't exist or didn't have strong international fields before that time period. So all this shows is that the opportunities for titles increased as Efren got older, and that he had extremely good longevity, not that he was in his prime in his late 40s and 50s.

It's true that Efren learned 1p and banks later in life, but that's also because these were more niche games, played mostly by Americans, when Efren was younger. If Efren had learned these games when he was younger, he would have dominated then too.

This is why I don't think it makes much sense to compare Efren's greatness as an all-around player to today's players by looking at DCC MOT awards: players like Fedor, today, grew up in an era where all the top players were playing every game, and had tournaments like the DCC to compete at for their whole careers. Efren grew up in an era where top international players didn't compete in 1p or banks, and the DCC didn't even exist. If it had existed when Efren was 20, and there was prize money to be won, can anyone really imagine he wouldn't have at least a few more MOT titles?

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sjm said:

I'd say that if you don't think Gorst is already on the short list of the best ever all-around players like Lassiter, Varner, Reyes, SVB or Pagulayan, you overlook just how special Gorst is. I have been around pro pool long enough to have watched all of them, and Fedor is already deserving of inclusion in serious all-around GOAT conversations.

Much in the way that Ronnie Allen did in the 1970s, Fedor has helped bring one pocket to a level previously unseen. He is also already among the best that ever played bank pool and his rotation pool skills are, undeniably, super-elite.

Right now, we are watching the best cueists that ever screwed a cue together. It is not sacrilegious to suggest that, even as all-an around player, Fedor has a chance to be remembered as having surpassed Efren as an all-around player. Of course, he hasn't done it yet, and maybe he never will, but keep an eye out.

However it plays out it should be enjoyable to see how it develops.

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sjm said:

The evidence suggests otherwise. SVB skipped each of the first two WNT events of 2026, (European Open, UK Open) but he won the third (Florida Open) and has every chance to win the fourth (Arizona Open) later today.

Last month, SVB played a long race against Fedor and was beaten convincingly. Despite a slow start at the majors this year, there's little evidence that Fedor has slipped much at all. Fedor may work as hard at his craft as anyone we've ever seen, and you can be sure he's not letting a brief hiatus in competition interrupt his always ambitious practice routine.

Emily knows that for the Mosconi to be competitive at all, Fedor must be on Team USA. I'm sure Fedor realizes it, too.

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vintagecollectibles831 said:

I was wrong, but he was really very mean, and very nasty towards me. Some of you guys tend to be really nasty to me at times, and it really gets under my skin. Do you even see how nasty you are at times? I have mental problems. I just can't hand it, and laugh it off, or whatever.

Some of you guys do not seem like the type that would ever admit when you are wrong about anything that you say. Some guys here just seem like total narcissists.

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JAM said:

Those who are veteran AzB-ers have probably read this pool tale I shared about Keith McCready and Joe Salazar, but I feel like it belongs in this thread because it speaks about Joe's integrity.

A young Keith made an appointment to play the legendary Tracy Joe, which was Joe Salazar's pool name back in the day, at a pool room that was off the beaten path. Keith and a couple of his buddies drove out to the joint at the designated time. When they walked in, Tracy Joe was waiting for him. The place was packed with curious onlookers who wanted to sweat the match. Tracy Joe had his own fan club there in full force.

Before the first game, it was agreed that the post money would be placed on top of the overhead light, a nickel each, totaling $1,000. It wasn't 10 crisp C-notes, though. It was a bunch of tens and twenties. I'm sure both players must have been playing on committee money.

Tracy Joe and Keith wasted no time getting down to business. The match was like a neck-and-neck horse race. Whenever one of them got close to the finish line, the other would catch up. Tight races. Back and forth they went late into the night. Then Keith caught one of those infamous Keith McCready gears and put it into turbocharge, defeating Tracy Joe in several races.

Keith and his entourage were the strangers in town, and they wanted to get out of there with the cheese as quickly as possible. So, after the last set, they didn't hang around to mingle. They immediately headed for the door. The night sky was pitch-black in the parking lot. Keith and his buddies piled into their car and started their journey home.

Within minutes, the driver noticed headlights behind them, coming at an extremely fast pace. Keith's driver figured they were about to get robbed and stepped on it, reaching speeds close to 100 mph. Keith said he was scared to death. Then, on this two-lane highway, the car behind them pulled out and came alongside them on the left. Keith and his buddies looked over in horror. The car was full of patrons from the pool room.

Then the driver's-side window of the other car rolled down. And there was Tracy Joe. He had a bunch of greenbacks in one hand and was pointing at the money with the other. He yelled, "Keith, you forgot the post money on the light!" Keith's driver immediately pulled over onto the shoulder. Tracy Joe walked up to Keith's car and handed him the cash. The relief inside that car must have been enormous. What they thought was a highway robbery turned out to be Tracy Joe and the boys simply trying to return Keith's money.

On the way home, they all had a good laugh about it. They had been so intent on getting out of town after the match that they forgot to collect the post money sitting on top of the light. The would-be robbers? They were actually the good guys, and one of them was the opponent who lost, Joe Salazar.

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Jaden said:

It was a mixture of both.

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skogstokig said:

did aleksa break and run or was it more safety oriented? 9 rack comeback is crazy

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sudocrushms said:

There were a couple of focus misses.
It was a dense weekend and he's had 2 tournaments in a row with INSANE draws.
Get the man some rest, mix in a lake day or 2 and he'll be good.

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something_pool said:

I don't think it's arguable that Efren's prime was after he turned 44 years old. Yes, Efren won lots of events in 2003-10, but many of those events didn't exist or didn't have strong international fields before that time period. So all this shows is that the opportunities for titles increased as Efren got older, and that he had extremely good longevity, not that he was in his prime in his late 40s and 50s.

It's true that Efren learned 1p and banks later in life, but that's also because these were more niche games, played mostly by Americans, when Efren was younger. If Efren had learned these games when he was younger, he would have dominated then too.

This is why I don't think it makes much sense to compare Efren's greatness as an all-around player to today's players by looking at DCC MOT awards: players like Fedor, today, grew up in an era where all the top players were playing every game, and had tournaments like the DCC to compete at for their whole careers. Efren grew up in an era where top international players didn't compete in 1p or banks, and the DCC didn't even exist. If it had existed when Efren was 20, and there was prize money to be won, can anyone really imagine he wouldn't have at least a few more MOT titles?

Click to expand...