iusedtoberich said:

Is Aloysius Yapp's wife legit a top player? What's her name?

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Is Silviana Lu his wife or girlfriend? Anyway, based on Fargo, she's the world #30, so she's an accomplished, if not top, player.

AtLarge said:

Rita is about a 20 to 1 favorite in this match, using current FargoRates. Perhaps Savannah is now playing a bit better than hers!

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A 770-700 race to 10 is about 85/15 odds. That sounds a touch low for Savannah. Perhaps 80/20 to 70/30 range based on my WAGo rating system.

maha said:

i dont have a fargo so you have to make a game and match up with me. thats the way it always was and made poolrooms fun.

now with fargo it is easy to know if you have any brains, whether you will win or not. as fargo is deadly accurate for that.

and wonderful for tournaments and leagues which is what it was designed for.

more tournaments need caps or spots to make players close to even . not make it so the better players still take down the money.
sure for 20 dollar entry many will play just to play. but get the entry high and you shut out all the dead money as they can see they have no chance. and never had one before fargo. so use it to handicap tournaments so they are truly fair. and let the top tier cry all they want.

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I'm a long ways from top tier these days but anything I compete at, including pool, I expect to start in the top tier if I am unknown. Nothing pisses competitors off worse than an unknown coming in and robbing the place! I did when I hadn't been competing for a year or two with pistols. Came to one of the last matches of the season and watched the young guns grabbing the clip board and checking each other's scores the whole match. Then the winner was announced, "First place Hu." "Hu, who the 'hell' is Hu?" There was a big hubbub and checking of the numbers for each stage! Age and cunning had beaten youth and skill.

The day tournaments become truly even is the day they become gambling instead of competition. They will deserve to be outlawed where gambling is illegal. If both players play at the same percentage of their best game, say 90% just to have a number, the better player should win. If the lesser player plays at 95% of their best game and the better player plays at 85%-90% of their best game, the lesser player should win with tight handicapping.

Handicapping to favor the weaker player gives no incentive to practice or try to improve. A shooting range I went to had excellent weekly competitions. The flaw was that they had four classes. C,B,A, and Master Class. What this did was create three classes that included sandbaggers and an open division. With all of a shooter's matches included in their classification when a sandbagger was in danger of breaking into a higher class they could super sandbag a match now and then, claim a gun malfunction, and stay in a lower class. We had an end of the year championship each season. A class had some of the worst sandbaggers dodging the open Master Class. One year the top five overall scores were by A class shooters!

In most cases fargo seems as fair a way as any to put together a fair event. One issue, there should be separate ratings for rotation and one pocket. Too much difference in styles and strengths.

alphadog said:

Some who play in Fargo handicapped trnmnts realize they are often far from "fair".

No FR and I play in my first Fargo trnmnt at ....Fargo Billiards. I am with Dsnny Olson and Mike knows I am looking for a 1pkt game so he gives me a 526 FR. The top bracket starts at 525.

I know Mike is just protecting his people so I just grin and bear it. I believe i was the lowest FR by at least 50 points , and in the case of Danny 200 FR points. I went from being a top player in 525 and under to a dead money .

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I think Mike was fair for several reasons. Yes, he protected his weaker players from an unknown sneaking in. But he also put you on the borderline so if you did prove to deserve to be in the 525 under class you would quickly move there the next time your fargo rating was adjusted. Had he put you in at 600+ then you would have been screwed long term. The company you were in and the one pocket red flag were indications to be cautious too.


My personal opinion is that the only fair form of competition is open class, run what you brung! I have never seen a truly fair way to break down competitors by skill. I have never whined about competing against much better people or equipment. With rifles there were sidepots, optional to get in. When I first started I was donating to get in the sidepots but I didn't want people to complain when I got better. Sure enough, when it was my day to sing, I took first place in both divisions. The man handing me the money apologized because somebody else earned small group money!

Hu

iusedtoberich said:

Yes, you discussed it. But imo, did not "emphasize" that the wrong call would be made. More a matter of just speaking it with the same tone as every other point made. It was not more or less important in your presentation than any other point.

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Good point. Understood. I guess I didn't want to emphasize it too much since it is such a rare occurrence.

PS: I'm surprised you didn't complain about the length of this one like you have about other long videos in the past. But I am glad you seemed to make it all the way through. Good job!

iusedtoberich said:

... I think to get good at calling and predicting on the fly, we'd all have to practice these like we would practice a normal shooting drill. The video alone I don't think is good enough for the player (or ref) to retain the knowledge long term. (Nothing to do with the video which is excellent, but more to do with the learning process). ...

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Another factor is the pressure on the ref to make a call and that is hard to practice. The Yapp shot is a good example of this kind of situation. I think that may have ended up as, "I'm not sure it was a foul, so..." A video review with the head ref would have helped, if that had been available.

They made a few clean looking P3 models like the bocote model, but now they seem to be more flashy looking. Some of the older Blak series weren't too flashy and had a fairly clean look to them.

Kris_b1104 said:

Mighty-X.

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straightline said:

It's an advanced drill. It will reveal you can't shoot straight.

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It is often sold as a HAMB drill that will improve your game by practicing it every day for months.

Can't it be useful in some other fashion? Can't someone develop a calculatus-eliminatus method of learning from it? Something like:

iusedtoberich said:

Is Aloysius Yapp's wife legit a top player? What's her name?

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it's in the screenshot you posted. think they're engaged, not married. icbw.

AtLarge said:

Rita is about a 20 to 1 favorite in this match, using current FargoRates. Perhaps Savannah is playing a bit better than hers!

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The appropriate comparison would be ~770 to ~700, not to 660.

iusedtoberich said:

Is Aloysius Yapp's wife legit a top player? What's her name?

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Silviana Lu is (dating? Married to?) Yapp.

Savannah is going to have a tough time against Rita. Excited to see how she handles it.

jax_joe said:

Hopefully Mrs Yapp squashes her.

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Is Aloysius Yapp's wife legit a top player? What's her name?

Here is all of his history on Digital Pool, under two names (same name, same city, same person). I don't know why it doesn't show the $1000 entry tournament. Digital Pool is funny a lot of times, even on my own profile it's missing a bunch of tournematns. No idea why. But what it does show is he played 7 total events, and won 3 of them, and got 2nd on one of them. Pretty good ratio, even if your name is SVB!

I'm watching the drawing, I've got my name in there for one. I should say my wife's name is in there as I gave my $50, but was shooting an opponent at league so while i was shooting, my wife wrote her name down.

maha said:

i dont have a fargo so you have to make a game and match up with me. thats the way it always was and made poolrooms fun.

now with fargo it is easy to know if you have any brains, whether you will win or not. as fargo is deadly accurate for that.

and wonderful for tournaments and leagues which is what it was designed for.

more tournaments need caps or spots to make players close to even . not make it so the better players still take down the money.
sure for 20 dollar entry many will play just to play. but get the entry high and you shut out all the dead money as they can see they have no chance. and never had one before fargo. so use it to handicap tournaments so they are truly fair. and let the top tier cry all they want.

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In our recent BCA regional event the "elite" bracket included every entry with a fargo rating 600 and up. There were 52 entrants. I didn't try to find the average fargo for the field but I can assure that we have a lot of very sporty players in the mid to upper 600s who played.

The event was won by a legit 606 with a lot of robustness who has been around a long time.

Fargo probably would have given him less than 1/10th of one percent chance to win the event using their math, systems and algorithms. Probably close to zero within the margin of error. But he won it. By winning 8 matches he was the dog in all but one. Many of them a huge dog.

With over 4k robustness he's now a 611. Still lower than almost every single opponent in that event.

Here are the actual results entered into the Fargo calculator.

So I don't buy that it is deadly accurate predicting winners and this was a two day event not a single match.