If the Fargo rating system existed back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, how many of those top Legendary players do you think would have been an 800?

Wow, and I thought that 6,000 games in the system was a lot. I looked at some of the ratings of some of the players who signed up for a 650 and under capped event, and was shocked to see that they had over 6,000 games in the system. I guess odds are that they will be staying a 650, for example, like, for a very long time.

So long as they keep playing a lot--which is likely if they are improving--the rating will nearly track.

Look, for example, at Lukas Fracasso-Verner.

At this time in 2022, he was 711 with 5288 games. He hit 6,000 games that fall. So,
June 2022 - 711
June 2023 - 736
June 2024 - 748
June 2025 - 756
June 2026 - 765

So is this 765 rating a lagging indicator? Well yes. But for adults who are improving fast in an adult kind of way, it is not far from tracking. A best estimate of Lukas's current skill from plotting performance vs time is he is higher than 765 by single digits.

That issue is very different for younger players who have been developing physically at the same time. Extreme cases are Savannah and Sofia, who have lagged by as much as 30-40 points.

Again for fast improvers like Moritz or Mickey or Tyler Styer or Emil or Kristina, their rating pretty much tracks.

What to Archer, me, and Corey have in common? We all have over 11,000 games and ratings that have fallen by 11 points in the last 3 years ;-)

Underappreciated Cue Makers Section

Asuuming the cue either has specs you liked, or better yet Bob built it for you, you will be startled at first impression.
Now a steel joint will hit firmer and I have no experience with his piloted steel joints. But his flat faced joints are really so subtilely different you can’t really describe it. So hit two racks with Bob’s cue and then one rack with your old cue and then one rack with Bob’s cue. That’s four racks……60 balls……shouldn’t take you too long.

Your start with 2 racks using your new Owen cue because you have never hit with it. You play only 1 rack with your
old cue, assuming you still had it which you might not, since you have many hours of play. Then you switch back to the Owen cue for 1 more rack. This will give you a good sense of the difference in the tactile feel of your cue. If I knew more about your cue’s specs, it be easier to anticipate what you’re going to enjoy. So now you know the feel of your cue.

Next set up a series of 5 simple drills……do the drills 5 times each……..25 drills………pocket the shot more than 3 times in a row for a drill and count how many attempts it takes. Don’t bother with banks shots……..tough long cut shots, long frozen rail shots, spot shots, tough angle middle of the table reverse cut shot and long straight shot at least 5-6 feet away and keep score using your cue and your new Owen cue. Now you get to assess playability and look at the results.

If you are a high 500 or 600 Fargo player, the difference may be slight. If your’re a low to mid 400 rating, the difference could be significant. If you’re in the middle of those two, you’ll play so much better and only your ambition will limit you from improving a lot. My Owen cue shafts are different than all my other cues and only Jerry Rauenzahn built his very similarly. I believe it’s why the hit is distinguishable and different. I knew it instantly when I tried my first cue and 2 weeks later ordered another gorgeous custom cue just before the CA ivory ban took effect.

Bob laughed after I sent him this drawing back in 2013. We had discussed the design in in a couple of telephone conversations but when he got my cover letter, an enclosed CD of a stain and some propellor designs, and the attached drawings, he thought “what have I gotten myself into?” We turned out to be great pals and we wager on the Yankees vs. Royals series occasionally. He still owes me a signed $10 bill from our last bet. The money never seems to swap hands and it’s just the fun of kibitzing each other since we’re both big fans. I was so pleased with the first cue despite screwing up the design in 2 simple ways. But it didn’t matter because I ordered a nicer custom design using fancy peacocks within 2 weeks of getting my first cue from Bob. He became my lifetime pal and gosh, I steered so many folks his way which was easy to do. All I did was let other players try my cues and that sealed it.
Thanks for the input and I follow it as soon as I get the cue!

Hypothetical rules question - three fouls

Found the clip, it was Filler v Albin. Was the 2nd foul he went in off, 3rd foul he got the escape but didn't hit a rail. First foul he managed to miscue breaking and didn't hit a single ball. Not sure what the final score was, but would take a good mentality to put that frame behind you and play your best for the rest of the match

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What beginner pool tip do you wish you learned sooner?

Of course not. That would be telling.

pj
chgo
This post was telling enough...
A primarily contraction driven flexion of the elbow can never approach the precision of a multi joint move of which a collapse of the elbow joint is a component.

You will be able to collapse the elbow joint and be accurate, sure. But to do so with touch and precice force control, you will need more than merely firing an elbow flexor.

Also, contractions fall pray to nervous tension. Repeatable forces don't. If you want access to those, multi joint movement is the way. The symphony beats a solo act every time.
Repeatable forces are obviously more reliable and consistent than contractions. The body integrates them seemlessly in natural motion. They are required for fine force control in vertabrates. Any single contraction of a muscle simply cannot offer anywhere near the same level of precision.

This is just how bodies work. You can take a few years and learn the details of exactly how.

Luckily, there is no need to learn the science of it in order to use it. Just get out of the way and stop giving the arm bad instructions on how to move. It will arrive at a far better solution than our feeble conscious minds could ever produce.

All the greats have great strokes. All of them. Some are just labeled as flawed by people who have spent more time studying machines than studying bodies.

If the Fargo rating system existed back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, how many of those top Legendary players do you think would have been an 800?

I was watching the 1998 US open finals and was surprised by how visibly less good the players were back then.

No disrespect to them of course, but it is mind blowing how far the game has come in just a few decades. But I do agree with those who day that the players are more robot like these days (for better or worse).

It was still a more enjoyable game to watch back then, right? They were not all robots.

If the Fargo rating system existed back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, how many of those top Legendary players do you think would have been an 800?

Unfortunately, no. You simply would not have enough archived data to build an accurate ecosystem of play, going from the top pros down to the 400s and 500s-level players.

While we might be able to piece together some data for a top player (which would be painstaking) it would be almost impossible to then piece together how all of the players they played did against the players they played, and so on.

Consider: Joshua Filler has 14,869 games in the system. Other top players have similar numbers. The average guy in my league (which also contribute to the very same ecosystem that Filler's Fargo depends on) have anywhere from 200 to 2,000 games (easily). The guys I play with also play with Anthony Meglino (12,914 games), so there is a line from guys like Filler to the guy on the table next to me on a Monday night.

we could never recreate that level of interconnectedness for players from the 1980s and '90s.

Wow, and I thought that 6,000 games in the system was a lot. I looked at some of the ratings of some of the players who signed up for a 650 and under capped event, and was shocked to see that they had over 6,000 games in the system. I guess odds are that they will be staying a 650, for example, like, for a very long time.

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