Have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

Keith McCready's comments about mud ball transcribed by me:

McCREADY: First of all, a mud ball is different than a big cue ball. It's smaller, but heavier than a regulation cue ball, the way the blue dots used to be.

Myself, I didn't like playing with mud balls, not that I couldn't play with them. They will jump off the object balls with the type of english that I'm not looking for. When you go to use cue-tip high lefts, cue-tip high centers, and cue-tip high rights, the mud ball deflects off the object ball. It's hard to put a smooth stroke on it.

Your draw shots and your stop shots, you can do that with a mud ball, but any time you're going off angle, it's different.

To me with the mud balls, I go off my balance point where I hold the cue farther back with my right hand, long stroking, a little bit more longer of a stroke. When you go to follow balls off the rail with the mud ball, it's difficult, especially if you've got to come back down table and you're straight in, a little bit off angle, left or right, either way, where you have to put a stroke on it.

My best advice is to practice your longer strokes with the cue-tip highs, left, right, and center. When you go to draw the ball, say you're a little off angle and you have to draw and then hit the rail and then suck the mud ball back, there's where your longer stroke will come into play, because holding the cue stick a normal way and you go to draw that mud ball, it won't go nowhere. You got to put more of a power stroke on your draw shots And remember, you're farther back off your balance point when you practice the drills.

Back when I played, we had Valleys, but the Irving K's were more difficult to play on with a mud ball.
Great tutorial here! Thank you Keith.

Larry Lisciotti

I ran into Larry in my home room in LA circa 1969. We played nine ball for $5/game. I won two in a row and he quit me. Smart move why play me and beat me when took the small loss for something better down the road. That came the next day to a guy less skilled than me and Larry stalked his way to a $200 score. No small change then. The next time I saw him six months later he was beating the $10/20 pay ball game at Bellflower Billiards on the snooker table. He beat the game for $80 K over a month or so. He’s ball striking was perfect for that game. He hung around LA for a year or so and left with the cash. Didn’t see him again til a tournament in Vegas in the 80’s. Great guy what a legend.
One of the fixtures there - Tom; always wore a leather hat and his lady always talked about Lisciotti. No wonder! ...

Larry Lisciotti

I ran into Larry in my home room in LA circa 1969. We played nine ball for $5/game. I won two in a row and he quit me. Smart move why play me and beat me when took the small loss for something better down the road. That came the next day to a guy less skilled than me and Larry stalked his way to a $200 score. No small change then. The next time I saw him six months later he was beating the $10/20 pay ball game at Bellflower Billiards on the snooker table. He beat the game for $80 K over a month or so. He’s ball striking was perfect for that game. He hung around LA for a year or so and left with the cash. Didn’t see him again til a tournament in Vegas in the 80’s. Great guy what a legend.
The guy he beat was me, and you knew it. Thnx for not outing me. Larry was a good hustler. First we stayed close at $5 and $10 9-Ball. He was up a few games.

I challenged him to play One Pocket 50 a game. He beat me four in a row.

Later I steered Larry to a 2K score. He jellied me good, like 20%. We became very good friends for life! I miss you Larry.

Joe Rogan - What's in the bag

This was a great clip. I’m a Rogan fan in general but it’s cool to see how legitimately into pool he is and that he has knowledge of the game and equipment. I enjoy all the what’s in the bag segments regardless who does them and I think they are beneficial as everyone always wonders what such and such plays with and hearing it direct from the player is helpful.

Have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

I first learned to play pool in my early 20s on bar tables with a big heavy cue ball (whether you call it a mudball or not officially). It definitely was difficult to draw the ball and cut shots were different (not sure in what way- but I certainly had to adjust when first playing with standard cue balls).

There was a guy at the 8 Ball Saloon in Ann Arbor, MI named Leonard Gustafson who ran the weekly tournaments- he was great with the big cue ball- took a great player to beat him. On tables with a regular cue ball or 9 footers, he looked basically like a slightly above average player, but on those bar tables with the big cue ball, it would take a pro speed player to beat him.

TX Open

I agree. I was sitting in the stands and left during that.
Totally agree! He’s mind numbing to listen to as he says the same crap over and over and drags it out waaaay to long. Some of the powers at be at his Calcutta events need to tell him as I think most share this opinion now days. These tournaments take long enough without hours worth of a Calcutta that resembles Groundhog Day in context.

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