InsertCleverNameHere said:

SJM, what would you say is the minimum for WORLD CLASS speed today? Use a player we all know if you can think of one. Brandon Shuff? Josh Roberts? Like John Morra is probably solidly in for world class speed but how much does he make a year in tournaments really? I'm too lazy for research.

Sure, the money in pool is better than it used to be, but it's still not much. And it still only goes to the very very best. Prize money beyond top 4 in events is hardly enough to cover expenses for most events

I bet most people in the forum would look at a salary under 6 figures as being not enough. Now make 40-80,000 or less and add to that 3-5 dozen flights and hotels etc and you're downright destitute.

It'll likely never happen but until 2000 people or so can make 200,000 or more per year(in today's economy) doing it, it's downright a hobby for most of them.

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When I saw the top 200 list I put all of those players as world class. To me if you are top 200 worldwide in almost anything you should be considered world class. The problem is that in pool world class does not necessarily mean you can make a good living. That is a different way of saying what I did in my earlier post. You have to be a top player among players I consider world class to really do well. Some might argue whether top 200 is really world class. But there are 450 NBA players plus some who bounce around and play 10 day contracts and such. And pro leagues internationally with some great players. Close to 1700 NFL players, many of whom don’t last and don’t make fortunes admittedly. Around 750 NHL players plus the overseas leagues.

Doesn’t bode well for making a living in pool. How many businesses out there have more than 200 employees making livings with the top guys making more than top pool players by a lot? In many different fields. And then factor in all the smaller businesses that provide good careers and livings for so many. Pool has never been a great opportunity for very many people. Some can do well at it, sure. But a job creating machine it is not.

InsertCleverNameHere said:

SJM, what would you say is the minimum for WORLD CLASS speed today? Use a player we all know if you can think of one. Brandon Shuff? Josh Roberts? Like John Morra is probably solidly in for world class speed but how much does he make a year in tournaments really? I'm too lazy for research.

Sure, the money in pool is better than it used to be, but it's still not much. And it still only goes to the very very best. Prize money beyond top 4 in events is hardly enough to cover expenses for most events

I bet most people in the forum would look at a salary under 6 figures as being not enough. Now make 40-80,000 or less and add to that 3-5 dozen flights and hotels etc and you're downright destitute.

It'll likely never happen but until 2000 people or so can make 200,000 or more per year(in today's economy) doing it, it's downright a hobby for most of them.

Click to expand...

Great question. No matter how I answer this, I'll offend somebody, but I'm going to answer anyway. I'm only considering the question as it relates to men's 9ball and 10ball.

I think the cutoff these days is about Fargo 780, although there are young players on the horizon that are near certain to get there such as Pongers, Vogel, Gangflot, Verner and many others. A veteran player who is a little less than Fargo 780 is borderline. Billy Thorpe, who will turn 30 this summer, and is one of my favorite players, seems a good example of borderline world class, a guy who could conceivably make a deep run at a major championship but in practice nearly never does. At 778, he is the world's 160th best player based on Fargo. Obviously, Billy is world class and then some at both bank pool and one pocket.

I don't think how many can make a living at pro pool is what matters. In my opinion, what matters is whether an aspiring pro knows how many can do so. If the answer today is only about 50, then a person considering pro pool as a career must assess whether they can become a top 50 player and, if not, whether they can a) secure sufficient sponsorships, b) get paid appearances, and/or c) give lessons to give them some financial stability and continuity.

... and, finally, just like you, I have always referred to the many who compete at the highest level without a realistic chance of making an income as hobbyists. To be fair, though, many a hobbyist can turn a decent profit in regional and local tournaments and in league play.