Rocket354 said:

...So then why aren't there subscores?

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You are welcome to do sub scores. You should use APA ratings or ELO ratings or some other approach to do it though. Fargo ratings basically work because the data is combined. If FargoRate was an airplane, separating the data would be like cutting off half the wings.

Rocket354 said:

Have we just been misunderstanding you the entire time?

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There are a lot of things people misunderstand because although they know how to interpret Fargo ratings just fine, they don’t understand WHY the approach works. If your mental model is a car works like a Fred flintstone car (legs running) you may be content to suggest getting rid of a few wheels to make it lighter or prettier. That’s what happens day in and day out. FargoRate is a great car, except they need to get rid of the wheels or make them square instead of round.

Patrick Johnson said:

So…
Running applies to rail only
Outside applies to ball only
- even though they’re the same surface-to-surface rubbing dynamic? ...

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Yes. You can have:

outside and running
outside and reverse
inside and running
inside and reverse

And, as I mentioned, for a particular shot, inside might be either running or reverse depending on whether you use follow or draw (or stun).

MitchAlsup said:

The way I was taught (1960s)::
Take the table as shown in post #1 and aim in the direction of the1-ball, but remove 1-ball::
Running english would be top left, so the CB accelerates when it reaches the rail.

There was never any reference to what running english was after contact with OB, just CB and rail.

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So…
Running applies to rail only
Outside applies to ball only
- even though they’re the same surface-to-surface rubbing dynamic?

pj
chgo

Might as well have asked for a CF shaft at half the current costs.

The way CF shafts are made means that a different tip size is a whole different production.
Whereas a wooden shaft can be sanded/turned down to whatever dimension (and then center drilled if desired) before installing a ferrule.
The CF shafts are wound around a foam core with only a prescribed number of layers. Its not like they build a solid CF shaft and then sand/turn it down to the dimension they want.

sjm said:

Yes, there is a minimum level of comprehension of the game beneath which one should not teach. Yes, I have occasionally run into a certified instructor whose entire pool knowledge could be written down on the back of a postage stamp but let us focus on the many who speak the language of pool fluently.

If you believe that anyone who can beat Dr Dave in a pool match would be likely to be a better teacher than he, you are badly mistaken. Similarly, I'm sure there are those that cannot beat him but are better instructors.

I know that many on AZB think otherwise, but when shooting skills correlate with instructional skills it is, more often than not, a coincidence.

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Dr Dave was a professional educator, which is a developed skill set in itself. Even though I am smart and understand a lot about the game and proficient in my field, I do not have the articulation that Dr Dave has in explaining concepts so clearly. My writing is a bit too stiff most of the time and my spoken explanations are even worse unless I spend time thinking about what I want to say. There were a few people I’ve come across in my career whom are excellent technical communicators and I’ve always envied them for it. Come to think of it most of them were professors or had professor parents.

poolscholar said:

You said table size makes no difference. But now you say it does?

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It's very simple. If I play a 780 I will win more often on a bar table playing 8 ball than playing them big table 9 ball.

Math does not equal reality and data is not perfect

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I don’t see a contradiction. If you think there is one, please flesh it out a bit.

Yes, you will beat a 780 in a straight up race more often on a bar table. Have you seen me contradict this?

fuggles said:

The terminology in this thread is weird to me. I use running english to describe the cue ball spin when hitting the cue ball directly in to the rail. Directly meaning before hitting an object ball. When talking about cut shots I use inside/outside. Where outside reduces cut induced throw.

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This matches my understanding

dr_dave said:

You need to find better people to know, or at least try to encourage the people you know to develop better sportsmanship and be more honest.

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Or you can accept other peoples experiences

Patrick Johnson said:

Sorry, running English is right side spin in this case (the kind that makes the CB "roll across" the OB's surface).

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The way I was taught (1960s)::
Take the table as shown in post #1 and aim in the direction of the1-ball, but remove 1-ball::
Running english would be top left, so the CB accelerates when it reaches the rail.

There was never any reference to what running english was after contact with OB, just CB and rail.