Getting called on a tough technicality...
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
Most people have picked option 2. I picked option 3.
When playing singles, I never call it (unless the opponent has attacked me first). Then the gloves are off.
As a team player, I feel I owe it to my team to play by the rules. That being said, my teammates and I have alway been in agreement not to call it on another team. Same rules apply.
When playing singles, I never call it (unless the opponent has attacked me first). Then the gloves are off.
As a team player, I feel I owe it to my team to play by the rules. That being said, my teammates and I have alway been in agreement not to call it on another team. Same rules apply.
Try not to roast me too bad on this, but a couple of years ago I was a ref at nationals in Vegas for the APA. If you have marked the pocket and while in the act of shooting the marker falls off, it is NOT a loss!! The same can be said if the 8-ball touches the marker on the way into the pocket. It is not a loss!! I may not agree with the hitting the marker one, but that is the way we had to call it, if it were to ever come into question.
If you make the 8-ball on the break, it goes into a pocket that is not marked and whitey stays on the table, it is a win for you. The marker only comes into effect when you are shooting directly on the 8-ball.
This may not be the case for other leagues. I've never played VNEA or TAP.
If you make the 8-ball on the break, it goes into a pocket that is not marked and whitey stays on the table, it is a win for you. The marker only comes into effect when you are shooting directly on the 8-ball.
This may not be the case for other leagues. I've never played VNEA or TAP.
Master division players are usually more about playing some quality pool, and less about being a nit and trying to get a free pass to Vegas.
Steve
We had a team (Not even playoffs, regular season) who wanted a ball in hand foul called on my teamate because the marker moved when he compressed the rail (instead of hitting the pocket) with the 8 ball. They claimed since the marker moved it was hit by the ball and affected its path.
Its just like anywhere else. there are some great people in APA and some total arses.
How low can you go.....
Your already playing APA sorry I forgot......
That is kinda crappy if you ask me. But my team gets pissed at me if I dont make the other guy shoot the last ball (8 or 9) and I would bet if my captain new that was the rule she ( my old lady ) would call them on that in a sec ( no matter what I said ) if it was going to get us closer to winning a buck let alone a free trip to buffet heaven, ( She dont post on here so youz cant tell her I said that )....
Your already playing APA sorry I forgot......
That is kinda crappy if you ask me. But my team gets pissed at me if I dont make the other guy shoot the last ball (8 or 9) and I would bet if my captain new that was the rule she ( my old lady ) would call them on that in a sec ( no matter what I said ) if it was going to get us closer to winning a buck let alone a free trip to buffet heaven, ( She dont post on here so youz cant tell her I said that )....
Stupid Rule
Last year at Midwest was my little brother's first time having to worry about marking the pocket. He is a C player. I watched his first match and sure enough on the first game he didn't mark his pocket. I wanted to say something but that would have been a foul too. He called the pocket but didn't mark it. The kid he was playing started grinning and that's when I knew he was going to call it like a sissy. He called it and laughed at my brother while doing so, my brother was pissed. I was pretty sure my brother was going to pass him a black eye for being smug about it, but he didn't. Karma got the kid and my brother ended up winning anyway.
Last year at Midwest was my little brother's first time having to worry about marking the pocket. He is a C player. I watched his first match and sure enough on the first game he didn't mark his pocket. I wanted to say something but that would have been a foul too. He called the pocket but didn't mark it. The kid he was playing started grinning and that's when I knew he was going to call it like a sissy. He called it and laughed at my brother while doing so, my brother was pissed. I was pretty sure my brother was going to pass him a black eye for being smug about it, but he didn't. Karma got the kid and my brother ended up winning anyway.
This actually happened to me in Vegas, playing a team from Wisconsin. I don't like putting the marker right next to the pocket, kind of distracts me I guess. I place the marker about 1 diamond from the pocket I am calling. I run the table and place marker before making the 8 and my opponent says I lose. He stated "the marker has to be within 1 diamond of the pocket". I told him that as long as the marker is closest to the pocket I am going for it counts. But, in fairness I told him that if he could find the rule that states the marker has to be within 1 diamond, then he is winner. Well, obviously he could not find the rule in the book although his team tried and tried. He even called over the referee who was leaning on the fence for a tense minute or two. I thought the referee was going to rule in his favor for a moment there, then the referee checked with another ref and finally the decision was made in my favor. Whew, close.
This took place in the VNEA Intermediate team semi finals. The loser got 3rd place and the winning team moved on to the finals. Our team lost the match and half of their team would not even shake hands with us. I thought they were a bunch of winers, so I stuck around to see them get smoked in the finals. :thumbup:
So, sometimes even playing by the rules, there are a few who will always try to make things up if it will win them a game. Always make sure to know the rules you are playing under.
Ridiculous !!!!
He clearly marked the pocket. And you know that everyone saw him mark the pocket thaty was interested in the match. The fact that the marker fell before, during or after the shot should not be in play. He marked the pocket legally and that should satisfy the rule.
He clearly marked the pocket. And you know that everyone saw him mark the pocket thaty was interested in the match. The fact that the marker fell before, during or after the shot should not be in play. He marked the pocket legally and that should satisfy the rule.
100% agree. I win when I win and only then. I don't want to win any other way.
Well I would not have called it either , I think it's a stupid rule designed for no other reason than to make people lose rather than win.
However , it doesn't matter what 'we' think 'they' should have done. The rule is the rule. You can't change that.
My point is if it was me and the marker fell I would have put it back up before I shot or unless they stopped me while walking over.
Hell , when things are tight or money is on the line I mark that stuff even when the other team says calling alone is fine. I don't really trust anyone if the game matters at all.
However , it doesn't matter what 'we' think 'they' should have done. The rule is the rule. You can't change that.
My point is if it was me and the marker fell I would have put it back up before I shot or unless they stopped me while walking over.
Hell , when things are tight or money is on the line I mark that stuff even when the other team says calling alone is fine. I don't really trust anyone if the game matters at all.
Thanks for all the responses everyone.
One minor correction, it was VNEA rather than APA, these were the finals in Quebec.
I was surprised actually to see fewer people take the hardline "rules are rules" stance. I was the guy telling all my teammates to stop bítching at the other team (esp. once the ref's made a ruling), and I thought it was pointless to call them unsportsmanlike. But maybe that's exactly what was called for. The losing teammate took it too far though, he kind of gets into conflict all the time even though he's a nice guy, and the girl who lost eventually got sick of the abuse and flipped him off, which led to even more abuse. I actually found that pretty funny but I'm not sure if anyone else did.
The ref asked if the other player had seen the pocket get marked and I believe she said yes. But apparently it didn't matter. Or I mis-heard and they claimed they didn't, which would be a lie. I'm not sure if the situation is mentioned in 'ref school' and there's a clearcut way it's supposed to be handled, or if it was sort of a new situation and had to be decided with a judgment call. I have never seen someone try to claim a pocket they didn't intend, though there are certainly situations where it could come up (the players hits a ball for an un-called safe, and it banks straight into the side like it had eyes, and he has shape on another ball. A lot of people would be tempted to claim it and keep shooting). But for the 8, it should just be sufficient to call and point to the pocket. If the opponent is at all unclear about it, they simply ask before you shoot. If there's debate after, 8-10 witnesses is enough to clear it up.
Many teams (including this one, I think) were ok with just calling it in earlier matches =/
Ironically I think we let some slide for them too. One guy I was playing played the 8 in an obvious corner. The marker was already sitting nearby (but not very close to the pocket, more like just past the middle diamond of the footrail). I said something like "I don't think you marked that corner but it's cool, I know what you were going for." He told me he actually was ok because the marker just has to be somewhere between the center diamond and the intended pocket. I was half tempted to mention that, if memory serves, you can't let the marker sit there from some previous shot, you must pick it up and put it back into that area. But I could be wrong on that one and anyway I wasn't gonna take it from him. He made a 3-railer to get that shot on the 8
My feeling is you abide by what the ref says and shut your mouth at that point. You won't get a reversal by continuing to grumble or berate the opposing team. The only thing you could accomplish, in theory, is to make them feel bad. I don't think that's worth doing. If they were capable of feeling bad about it then they'd just let it slide in the first place.
One minor correction, it was VNEA rather than APA, these were the finals in Quebec.
I was surprised actually to see fewer people take the hardline "rules are rules" stance. I was the guy telling all my teammates to stop bítching at the other team (esp. once the ref's made a ruling), and I thought it was pointless to call them unsportsmanlike. But maybe that's exactly what was called for. The losing teammate took it too far though, he kind of gets into conflict all the time even though he's a nice guy, and the girl who lost eventually got sick of the abuse and flipped him off, which led to even more abuse. I actually found that pretty funny but I'm not sure if anyone else did.
The ref asked if the other player had seen the pocket get marked and I believe she said yes. But apparently it didn't matter. Or I mis-heard and they claimed they didn't, which would be a lie. I'm not sure if the situation is mentioned in 'ref school' and there's a clearcut way it's supposed to be handled, or if it was sort of a new situation and had to be decided with a judgment call. I have never seen someone try to claim a pocket they didn't intend, though there are certainly situations where it could come up (the players hits a ball for an un-called safe, and it banks straight into the side like it had eyes, and he has shape on another ball. A lot of people would be tempted to claim it and keep shooting). But for the 8, it should just be sufficient to call and point to the pocket. If the opponent is at all unclear about it, they simply ask before you shoot. If there's debate after, 8-10 witnesses is enough to clear it up.
Many teams (including this one, I think) were ok with just calling it in earlier matches =/
Ironically I think we let some slide for them too. One guy I was playing played the 8 in an obvious corner. The marker was already sitting nearby (but not very close to the pocket, more like just past the middle diamond of the footrail). I said something like "I don't think you marked that corner but it's cool, I know what you were going for." He told me he actually was ok because the marker just has to be somewhere between the center diamond and the intended pocket. I was half tempted to mention that, if memory serves, you can't let the marker sit there from some previous shot, you must pick it up and put it back into that area. But I could be wrong on that one and anyway I wasn't gonna take it from him. He made a 3-railer to get that shot on the 8
My feeling is you abide by what the ref says and shut your mouth at that point. You won't get a reversal by continuing to grumble or berate the opposing team. The only thing you could accomplish, in theory, is to make them feel bad. I don't think that's worth doing. If they were capable of feeling bad about it then they'd just let it slide in the first place.
There is no way in Hades that I would call that.
If my team captain tried to call it, I would seriously consider quitting that team.
If my team captain tried to call it, I would seriously consider quitting that team.
When i did play APA, I always watched where someone was placing thier marker, and most of the people i played would put thier marker right next to the pocket.
A few of the "us" higher up's would just agree to call the 8, no point in marking the pocket when you know thier intentions.
As for the whole i'll let it slide normally, but since it means something I'll call it now type of deal,, WTF!!!!!
So you'll let it slide during normal league play? but if it's for a trip to vegas, your going to call someone out on it? Talk about being a NIT.
And what I find funny is how people say,,, have the REF ask them if "anyone" or someone saw them mark the pocket.... Well if they are Nitty enough to call someone on this, do you really think they are going to honestly tell the Ref, "YES" I watched them mark the pocket!! Hell no they are not,,, they are going to say NO i didnt, I had no clue what pocket they were shooting for even though the 8 was hanging in the corner pocket.......
A few of the "us" higher up's would just agree to call the 8, no point in marking the pocket when you know thier intentions.
As for the whole i'll let it slide normally, but since it means something I'll call it now type of deal,, WTF!!!!!
So you'll let it slide during normal league play? but if it's for a trip to vegas, your going to call someone out on it? Talk about being a NIT.
And what I find funny is how people say,,, have the REF ask them if "anyone" or someone saw them mark the pocket.... Well if they are Nitty enough to call someone on this, do you really think they are going to honestly tell the Ref, "YES" I watched them mark the pocket!! Hell no they are not,,, they are going to say NO i didnt, I had no clue what pocket they were shooting for even though the 8 was hanging in the corner pocket.......
It's a silly rule to begin with (only one of the reasons I can't take league play seriously), but at least in APA rules it shouldn't be a loss:
It appears that once the pocket is "properly marked" what happens afterward doesn't matter.
pj
chgo
It appears that once the pocket is "properly marked" what happens afterward doesn't matter.
pj
chgo
That's why I love league so much. LOL It has always driven me nuts that rules vary in the same game from league to league. Why should 8-ball be played differently because your league is sanctioned by a different organization? Seems like there should be some standardized rules and wether you play BCA, APA, VNEA or whatever else you should be playing by the same rules. It's not like the game is so new that situations like that have never come up before, yet year after year, there are always arguements over rules and most of the time situations that take more then one ref because the first one called to the table wasn't sure how to call it. That's sad in my opinion.
That being said, I've seen a couple pretty good rule arguements:
One was in the semis at a state tournament. In the last round of a tight scoring match, a friend of mine was running out. Got down to the 8 and a teammate enthusiastically yelled "Patch it up, son!". At that point, a member of the opponent's team jumped up and yelled about that being a coaching foul. My friend's team argued that the person that said that wasn't the player or captain, so HIS statement was a coaching foul! After about 15 minutes and a ref, they determined that both verbal fouls cancelled each other out and my friend was allowed to proceed to pocket the straight in 8 (under no pressure of course).
I about lost it laughing on another occasion. Player 1 and Player 2 were arguing about wether 1 had given 2 enough time to acknowledge the foul call before picking up the cue ball. 2 said that he did NOT acknowledge the call so 1's act of grabbing the cue ball was a foul. A couple minutes later, #2 scratched. #1 stood there with his hand over the ball return REFUSING to pick up the cueball until #2 acknowledged that scratching was a foul. Yeah...that one ended up in the parking lot. At that point I felt obligated to raise my pitcher and declare my love for bar leagues.
That being said, I've seen a couple pretty good rule arguements:
One was in the semis at a state tournament. In the last round of a tight scoring match, a friend of mine was running out. Got down to the 8 and a teammate enthusiastically yelled "Patch it up, son!". At that point, a member of the opponent's team jumped up and yelled about that being a coaching foul. My friend's team argued that the person that said that wasn't the player or captain, so HIS statement was a coaching foul! After about 15 minutes and a ref, they determined that both verbal fouls cancelled each other out and my friend was allowed to proceed to pocket the straight in 8 (under no pressure of course).
I about lost it laughing on another occasion. Player 1 and Player 2 were arguing about wether 1 had given 2 enough time to acknowledge the foul call before picking up the cue ball. 2 said that he did NOT acknowledge the call so 1's act of grabbing the cue ball was a foul. A couple minutes later, #2 scratched. #1 stood there with his hand over the ball return REFUSING to pick up the cueball until #2 acknowledged that scratching was a foul. Yeah...that one ended up in the parking lot. At that point I felt obligated to raise my pitcher and declare my love for bar leagues.
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
1... It's a retarded rule.
2... If the pocket was marked, then it's not a breach in rules. That opposing team stooped to a dirty level for a win.
3... Post names
2... If the pocket was marked, then it's not a breach in rules. That opposing team stooped to a dirty level for a win.
3... Post names
This is my thoughts exactly. I would hate to win on a technicality. I would rather feel I won because I played better.