So You Want To Be A Top Pro...Why?

"Almost" is right. Bob Vanover worked a full time job in the furniture business for years and never missed a ball.

George Breedlove worked also and he wasn't bad.:smile: I'd like to have Jay Helfert's input on this. I'm sure he knows many more that could hold their own on the field of green and get up for work the next morning. Or anyone else that knows of players that worked and were feared by most on the table. Johnnyt
 
"Almost" is right. Bob Vanover worked a full time job in the furniture business for years and never missed a ball.

... not to mention that Steve Mizerak was an English teacher, Tom Jennings was a math professor, Irving Crane was a car dealer, and Jack Colavita was a machinist.
 
I agree with most of what you said with the exception of the odds being 100,00 to 1 of becoming a top 100 player. I think the odds lessen dramatically if you put the hours of dedication into the game. If one were to practice seriously 40 hours per week for a few years I'd say the odds are much better for breaking into the top 100......of course top 100 isn't going to cut it.
 
George Breedlove worked also and he wasn't bad.:smile: I'd like to have Jay Helfert's input on this. I'm sure he knows many more that could hold their own on the field of green and get up for work the next morning. Or anyone else that knows of players that worked and were feared by most on the table. Johnnyt

dbarbr, Randy Jones....Dan Louie....a few players in Kansas :)....Jeff Melton....Rempe....Jeff Carter?
 
I don't really have aspirations to be a pro. I just want to play that well.

Good to have you post Johnnyt. I've missed your input.

Thank you Jim. I'm writing another pool related novel about two women. One an ex national champion pool player that quits the tour to become a PI, and a girl she meets that comes to the states from Manila that was born with a silver spoon and plays jam up pool along with her deadly combat training.

When I have the first few chapters the way I want them I'll give out my e-mail address to see who wants to read it and give me truthfull feedback. I hope a few women will ask to read it also, as it's about women mostly. A few women on here read one of my short stories that I have on Amazon (including 3 pros) and I learned the meaning of bust size (which I had wrong) and a few other things that mostly women would know. Johnnyt
 
... not to mention that Steve Mizerak was an English teacher, Tom Jennings was a math professor, Irving Crane was a car dealer, and Jack Colavita was a machinist.

Thank you sjm. I know there are and were a lot of very good players out there that held a job, but can't remember their names at this time. As you all know, if someone was real good I tip-toed around them for the easier money lol. That's why I ended at a "B" player instead of an "A" player. Johnnyt
 
I agree with most of what you said with the exception of the odds being 100,00 to 1 of becoming a top 100 player. I think the odds lessen dramatically if you put the hours of dedication into the game. If one were to practice seriously 40 hours per week for a few years I'd say the odds are much better for breaking into the top 100......of course top 100 isn't going to cut it.

I agree that putting in the time on the table when you're young will give you more of a chance to make it to the top 100. I also agree that that won't cut it money wise. I don't care what anyone says (including instuctors
). If you have no natural talent to start with...forget about it and enjoy the game for the game. Johnnyt
 
I would be interested in hearing you "go on and on" on this subject.

Are there businesses you personally recommend?

My personal choice is go to LPN school for one year and become a nurse, they average $17.00 an hour now and if you work agency (work when you want) you can make $20 to $25 an hour. It's not for everyone, but it's also not as hard as on might thight. I did it for 12 years at the end of my working life. I was a biker, a mechanic, and a pool player when I went to nursing school. I made good money, helped some people, and worked when I needed to. As far as a business...now is not the time for opening your first business. But I'll still go back to the best way I ever made money was buying something cheap and fixing it up or pay to have it fixed up and sell at a profit. With cellphones it's even easier today than it was when I use to do it.

As far as buying Greyhounds and horses, it's a crap shoot. I was lucky with my first pup I bought. He went on to win stakes races that allowed me to buy liters of pups from championship breeding. I was lucky enough to have just a little under 200 greyhonds running at 20 tracks all over the US. When I sold all my dogs I kept one champion (Dodgem By Design) that had run out over $180,000 in his career. Now he's been at stud for 5 years at a $1000 a pop stud fee. His earnings at this time are about $600,000.

As for as horses, I've only owned a few. Most turned out to be glue factory specials. The first one I bought with 7 other people was Disco Count. He was claimed by us for $100,000 who went on to to win many $50,000 to $100,000 races in NY. We made a profit and let him be claimed for $50,000.

As far as a business right now...I wouldn't. When the economy picks up I'd say go for a small business that you know a lot about and KNOW you can run it yourself in the begining. Forget pool for 6 months or until you feel you can take the time needed to practice and play in tournaments or action that won't hurt your busines.

I am in no way an expert on this matter. I was just lucky and not afraid to gamble on buying the Greyhounds and the horses after doing reseach and asking people in the business that I knew and trusted. There are much better members on here that could give me the Orange Crush when it comes to starting and running a business. JohnnyT (8th grade drop-out) (but I have a GED) :eek:
 
one person businesses

Johnny's advice is sound as always. However, I don't recommend one person businesses unless you plan to keep them that way. The problem is growth. When you grow a business you get into an impossible spot. You can't meet demand by yourself but hiring one person legally usually means a large loss of profits. Hiring two people and keeping them busy is usually around the break even point and you often have to hire three people to make more money than you made by yourself. Once you have employees and all the headaches that go with them your personal production often falls way down too.

Ideally if you want more than a one person business you buy a business already employing at least three or four people and making a profit. Easier said than done.

Hu



My personal choice is go to LPN school for one year and become a nurse, they average $17.00 an hour now and if you work agency (work when you want) you can make $20 to $25 an hour. It's not for everyone, but it's also not as hard as on might thight. I did it for 12 years at the end of my working life. I was a biker, a mechanic, and a pool player when I went to nursing school. I made good money, helped some people, and worked when I needed to. As far as a business...now is not the time for opening your first business. But I'll still go back to the best way I ever made money was buying something cheap and fixing it up or pay to have it fixed up and sell at a profit. With cellphones it's even easier today than it was when I use to do it.

As far as buying Greyhounds and horses, it's a crap shoot. I was lucky with my first pup I bought. He went on to win stakes races that allowed me to buy liters of pups from championship breeding. I was lucky enough to have just a little under 200 greyhonds running at 20 tracks all over the US. When I sold all my dogs I kept one champion (Dodgem By Design) that had run out over $180,000 in his career. Now he's been at stud for 5 years at a $1000 a pop stud fee. His earnings at this time are about $600,000.

As for as horses, I've only owned a few. Most turned out to be glue factory specials. The first one I bought with 7 other people was Disco Count. He was claimed by us for $100,000 who went on to to win many $50,000 to $100,000 races in NY. We made a profit and let him be claimed for $50,000.

As far as a business right now...I wouldn't. When the economy picks up I'd say go for a small business that you know a lot about and KNOW you can run it yourself in the begining. Forget pool for 6 months or until you feel you can take the time needed to practice and play in tournaments or action that won't hurt your busines.

I am in no way an expert on this matter. I was just lucky and not afraid to gamble on buying the Greyhounds and the horses after doing reseach and asking people in the business that I knew and trusted. There are much better members on here that could give me the Orange Crush when it comes to starting and running a business. JohnnyT (8th grade drop-out) (but I have a GED) :eek:
 
Pro caliber or not?

Johnnyt ... I would be interested in reading your first chapters.

As far as working, I worked all my life until I went on disability 13 years ago.
Some of the best Pool I ever shot in my life was when I was putting in 55 hours a week on the job. I think it is more about attitude and discipline regarding Pool than whether you are working or not. I worked in some high pressure jobs, but I am the kind that thrives on it, at least I was when I was younger. I shot some tournaments, but mostly I gambled up to $2,000 sets.
 
Johnnyt ... I would be interested in reading your first chapters.

As far as working, I worked all my life until I went on disability 13 years ago.
Some of the best Pool I ever shot in my life was when I was putting in 55 hours a week on the job. I think it is more about attitude and discipline regarding Pool than whether you are working or not. I worked in some high pressure jobs, but I am the kind that thrives on it, at least I was when I was younger. I shot some tournaments, but mostly I gambled up to $2,000 sets.

$2000 sets were a little too rich for my blood, or to be honest, too much for my choking point. A $500 set would make me change my underwear if it got hill-hill lol.

Thank you for the offer to read the first few chapters. As soon as I have it like I want it would be honored to let you see what you think of it. I will PM you for your e-mail address. Thanks. Johnnyt
 
Maybe some peoples ideas of sucess is different than yours..

No bills , no responsibility , not been tied down to anything or anyone. It is the ultimate bohemian lifestyle.

Otherwise if you got a spouse and kids ...you better get a job.:eek:
 
No bills , no responsibility , not been tied down to anything or anyone. It is the ultimate bohemian lifestyle.

Otherwise if you got a spouse and kids ...you better get a job.:eek:

You are 100% right. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. But if that's what someone chooses and it's not working out, don't ***** to everybody about poor me. I'm a pro and I can't make enough to live the way I thought I would when I got to pro level. Johnnyt
 
title could be different.

Yes, it’s a shame that most of the great hustlers and tournament players will and did die broke. It really doesn’t have to be that way for most of them. You would think with all the books on top players and stories about them on the Internet that young players would get it. Do the math. It’s just that simple. Maybe 100 pool players in the world make a decent living, where they have a house, medical insurance, and money saved. None of them makes big money. As far as following the dream goes…you can’t live off a dream. The odds are of someone making the top 100 in the world is probably 100,000 to 1…maybe more.

I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination, and I wasn’t a top player at anytime, but I loved the game and loved the hustle, but I loved money, a nice roof over my head, good food, and a nice car and bike, and a lot more. I met a lot of top players in the North East through my Dad. I saw at a young age how most of them lived. If they had a roof over their head it was a one-room flop or their car. Some had girlfriends supporting them. Girlfriend leaves…no roof. Most that I knew could have saved enough over their years in pool. Most would make a big score and look to put it back in action at the table, track, or casino. Good pool players know their odds of winning on the pool table very well, but don’t have a clue how bad the odds are stacked against them in other gambling. Kids need to finish school, get a good job that they feel they can put up with until retirement.

I didn’t have an education, rarely played for big money, but a good percentage of my winning always went to buy something I could sell at a profit, like the Greyhounds, cars and horses that I bought, would work for me to make money. I never had any dream of becoming the next Mosconi. All I wanted was to be good enough to make a few hundred a week at it and by investing the profits I was making good money and having fun doing it. In over forty years I never missed once giving my wife her the weekly money she needed to run the house, take care of the kids, and buy herself and the kids something they wanted.

Most of the pool players that made money in pool were not great players. They simply got off their ass and found a job or started a business to make money to support their HOBBY of playing pool. Johnnyt

i think the title could say want to be a pro why.not a top pro.

the top pros like archer,mika,busty,efren,ralf etc have made alot of money in their career and live a very envied life whether most want to admit it or not.
i think to play just normal pro speed and not win tourneys not be marketable etc is kinda a waste of time.

one top player i know very well gets 112,000 a year before he hits a ball.
ive seen many comment on here about how they would never want to be him.

lets see he gets 112,000 a year and has for many years. he has girls launch on him every tourney he goes too.
he does nothing but ,travel,wear what he wants,plays golf,signs autographs and even plays pool once in a while.

now before we all go yeah but thats only one guy.

when you say the top pros ,i dont know any top pro that is broke and if he is thats not because he doesnt make good money playing pool. its because he loses it in casinos or is just and idiot at managing his money.

furthermore i know many broke pro golfers,bowlers,etc .

believe me life is short . if the average life span was 200 years i would quit pool.

since life is so short i would much rather make what i make,and have my life than have a career that i dont like and make twice as much.
im sure the top pros agree with me that why they keep at it.

until someone is a top pro at any game and see all the perks that go with that ,i think its hard to say i would never want to go that route.to each his own though.

for some its a way to ease the pain . they say to themselves or other people 'i would never want to be a pro anyway.its because they have tried to become a great player their whole life and couldnt ,so instead they say i didnt want to be a pro anyway.

i wanted to be a pro baseball player.
im not big enough or strong enough and knew it.
instead of saying to myself i never wanted that ,i said hell yes i wanted that but was never going to be able to pull it off.

anyway im not directing what im saying at anyone. im just saying when we talk about not wanting to be a broke top pro ,lets try to remember they are far from broke and wouldnt trade lives with 99.9 percent of people anywhere.
 
i think the title could say want to be a pro why.not a top pro.

the top pros like archer,mika,busty,efren,ralf etc have made alot of money in their career and live a very envied life whether most want to admit it or not.
i think to play just normal pro speed and not win tourneys not be marketable etc is kinda a waste of time.

one top player i know very well gets 112,000 a year before he hits a ball.
ive seen many comment on here about how they would never want to be him.

lets see he gets 112,000 a year and has for many years. he has girls launch on him every tourney he goes too.
he does nothing but ,travel,wear what he wants,plays golf,signs autographs and even plays pool once in a while.

now before we all go yeah but thats only one guy.

when you say the top pros ,i dont know any top pro that is broke and if he is thats not because he doesnt make good money playing pool. its because he loses it in casinos or is just and idiot at managing his money.

furthermore i know many broke pro golfers,bowlers,etc .

believe me life is short . if the average life span was 200 years i would quit pool.

since life is so short i would much rather make what i make,and have my life than have a career that i dont like and make twice as much.
im sure the top pros agree with me that why they keep at it.

until someone is a top pro at any game and see all the perks that go with that ,i think its hard to say i would never want to go that route.to each his own though.

for some its a way to ease the pain . they say to themselves or other people 'i would never want to be a pro anyway.its because they have tried to become a great player their whole life and couldnt ,so instead they say i didnt want to be a pro anyway.

i wanted to be a pro baseball player.
im not big enough or strong enough and knew it.
instead of saying to myself i never wanted that ,i said hell yes i wanted that but was never going to be able to pull it off.

anyway im not directing what im saying at anyone. im just saying when we talk about not wanting to be a broke top pro ,lets try to remember they are far from broke and wouldnt trade lives with 99.9 percent of people anywhere.

Thanks for your perspective on being a pro player from someone who knows.

James
 
I think these guys are gamblers. Many jobs requires the right person for that position and pool is no different. To live a pro player live style is a gamble and part of who they are. The unknown, risks, no tied down, ego, rush, broke, big wins etc... A normal person would be medicated if they seeked these emotions (highs and lows) on a daily bases.

For me, it would be ego. I would like to walk into a room and have people consider me one of the favs. To know I could beat any on a given day, that would be great. At my age now, 37, I know that won't happen, so my goals are to improve. When I stop finding things to make me better, I will finish with pool.

I think once you get a name and can maintain it for a few years, money could be made. Rather than gamble, they should travel the country... Call a hall, ask for a paid room and a little food expense free table during the day to practice. You show for Challenge matches, lessons, pictures etc during the evening. Stop at locations while travelling to your next event. I think $400 to $500 is realistic. Thats $100,000+ after most of your expenses paid + event winnings. Invest, invest, invest. Do that for 5 years and start counting the $$. That would be my Pro path if I was lucky enough to walk one.
 
I don't wanna be a pro because I'm not in a fight with my money.

It's a shame it's that way. Young kids should want to be a pool pro to make a few hundred K a year or more, like golf.
 
I'm a competitor, period. I don't care if it's flying kites, I want to be good at it. I guess I've invested so much time into pool, and it has given me so many highs and lows (perfect sign for a type "A" personality, I'm also in commission sales) I enjoy the highs. I don't have the dedication or time, or even the gift to be a top level player. I do, however, have a desire and gift enough to reach a certain level. The key is to know that "level." And,.....be truthful about it to yourself. If your not truthful to yourself, you go broke. I've had my share of overrating myself. It's rare, but we've all done it. To me, the action is addictive. The comradery, the ability to throw out some balls in any town across America and get noticed as a possible threat. Good feeling. I'd have to say it's a high. Doesn't do much for your action, but still a good feeling to walk into a poolroom two hours from home and be recognized by someone you have absolutely no idea who they are. I know my place in the pool world.


And I enjoy it. And those that really know me, know this. If I've been into your poolroom, you've liked me or more than not hated me or wanted a shot at me (this is an edge for action for you morons that think I'm just making enemies for no reason), but you'll know I've been in the building.
 
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If you're a top pro (meaning way above average) you can't go broke. For that to happen, you'd have to have a lack of common sense and be extremely irresponsible with your share of winnings.

Yes, I envy top pro's ability and would love to be one of them. Competing against the very best in the world must be the ultimate challenge. Besides, what other job gives you the opportunity to travel as much and see the world? All the power to you guys...wishing you well...:thumbup:
 
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