Frozen ball shots

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:confused::confused:Help please?!

I'd like to improve on these shots.

1) 2 ob frozen-hit next ball in rotation -throw 2nd ball into pocket.

2) ...........same as above................ -cause 1st ball to roll into nearby pocket

3) cb frozen to next ball in rotation - hit cb through ob to send cb to make another ob hanging in pocket.

Any suggestions re predicting likely outcome. I have trouble with these shots.

Re. 1) over/under estimate throw- especially w/long distance to hole.

2) getting ball to roll forward/predict path/guess at inbound cb angle and amount of draw needed.


3) figuring out cb path after the hit.


I know they are wacky shots-but they come up

Thanks

3railkick
 
3RAILKICK...These kinds of shots, sometimes are "on" and sometimes not. You can "throw" an OB frozen to the CB, farther than two OB's frozen together, because you can create more friction when the CB/OB are touching, and sidespin can affect the outcome to a greater degree. Here's a basic rule of thumb, almost for either shot you described. You can 'throw' a frozen OB (whether frozen to CB or another OB) about 1" per foot of distance to the pocket. So if, for example, your frozen CB/OB lines up in a straight line, to a point on the far rail, 6" outside the pocket, you need to be about 6 feet away from the pocket to throw it in. Pretty tough (not necessarily impossible, but tough) to make it throw 6-8" when you're only 3 feet from the hole. With two frozen OB's, the basic concept is this...if you have to cut the OB you're trying to make to the right, you cut the 2nd OB (frozen to the first OB) the same direction. Sidespin doesn't help these shots, and neither does trying to thin cut them. Set your CB up just off straight on the frozen OB pair, and just shoot the cut, on the correct side of the OB. The harder you shoot, the less it will throw. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Take a frozen pair of balls (at least 1 diamond from the corner pocket) and align the perpendicular of the contact point between them so that the it points at the tip of the corner pocket. The ball that will normall roll towards the side/end rail can be made to go into the pocket by follow or draw on the cue ball. You can move the ball only about 1/3-to-1/2 a balls width with this curve.

So, if you need to move the frozen ball forward into the pocket, the cue ball must make contact with this ball with lots of backspin and not-so-much forward velocity. At the moment of contact, the object ball picks up forwards spin and will curve over the first inch or so towards the pocket. {I make these all the time}

If you need to move the ball backwards, the cue ball needs to make contact with lots of forwardspin and not so much forward velocity. You can move the object ball about 1/3rd as far with forwardspin as you can with backspin above. {I make these occasionally}

Having 3 frozen balls helps the forwardspin case and hurts the backspin case. This is explained in the Byrne book(s)
 
3RAILKICK said:
:confused::confused:Help please?!

I'd like to improve on these shots.

1) 2 ob frozen-hit next ball in rotation -throw 2nd ball into pocket.

2) ...........same as above................ -cause 1st ball to roll into nearby pocket

3) cb frozen to next ball in rotation - hit cb through ob to send cb to make another ob hanging in pocket.

Any suggestions re predicting likely outcome. I have trouble with these shots.



Re. 1) over/under estimate throw- especially w/long distance to hole.

2) getting ball to roll forward/predict path/guess at inbound cb angle and amount of draw needed.


3) figuring out cb path after the hit.


I know they are wacky shots-but they come up

Thanks

3railkick
Click to expand...



I don't think they are "wacky". We teach them and more in our X.O.P. Classes. Scott's answer is great.....SPF=randyg
 
> 1) 2 ob frozen-hit next ball in rotation -throw 2nd ball into pocket.

The amount of throw varies with how full the first ball is shot into the second and the speed of the shot. You can also vary the throw a little with spin on the cue ball, but the angle into the second ball is the important thing. This is explained in an article in http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html -- see the June 1995 article. Dr. Dave has a technical explanation of the results of that experiment.

> 2) ...........same as above.. -cause 1st ball to roll into nearby pocket

There is a system for aiming these that I call the "ten times fuller" system. It's explained in one of the Billiards Digest articles in the link above. For example: two balls have been spotted on the foot spot and the cue ball is in hand behind the line. Make the head ball go straight into a corner pocket. The shots are not easy. Draw is not required but it helps. The shot is illustrated in Mosconi's "Winning Pocket Billiards," and many other places.

> 3) cb frozen to next ball in rotation - hit cb through ob to send cb to make > another ob hanging in pocket.

This is the "two times fuller system." It is described in Bob Byrne's "Standard Book of Pool and Billiards," including two ways to aim depending on whether you need a full hit or a thin hit to make the object ball.

Dr. Dave has videos of both the ten-times-fuller and the two-times-fuller systems available for free on-line if you don't want to invest in the book.
 
My typing skills need a bit of improving. This post reminded me of a book I want to buy, 99 Critical Shots. I typed the title into Google and didn't quite get the hits that I thought I would. Then I realized I had typed in 99 Critical Shits. i and o are along side each other. The way I play some days, maybe the two are related.
 
Many videos and resources for these types of shots can be found here:


Regards,
Dave

3RAILKICK said:
:confused::confused:Help please?!

I'd like to improve on these shots.

1) 2 ob frozen-hit next ball in rotation -throw 2nd ball into pocket.

2) ...........same as above................ -cause 1st ball to roll into nearby pocket

3) cb frozen to next ball in rotation - hit cb through ob to send cb to make another ob hanging in pocket.

Any suggestions re predicting likely outcome. I have trouble with these shots.

Re. 1) over/under estimate throw- especially w/long distance to hole.

2) getting ball to roll forward/predict path/guess at inbound cb angle and amount of draw needed.


3) figuring out cb path after the hit.


I know they are wacky shots-but they come up

Thanks

3railkick
Click to expand...
 
I'll try to illustrate

:thumbup:

CueTable Help

">

CueTable Help

" swStretchStyle=meet type="application/x-director" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/">

CueTable Help

">

CueTable Help

">

CueTable Help

" swStretchStyle=meet type="application/x-director" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/">

CueTable Help

" swStretchStyle=meet type="application/x-director" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/">

CueTable Help

poolplayer2093 said:
you ought to use the http://talk.cuetable.com/. i'm not quite sure what you're asking
Click to expand...

Any better?

3railkick

crap-no
 
Last edited:
Better watch out for frostbite!

3RAILKICK:

Better be careful with those frozen balls; bad cases of frostbite are known to result in amputation. :eek:

You don't want to be known as a eunuch pool player, right?

j/k,
-Sean
 
Last edited:
Wee WEE OR Wei Wei

sfleinen said:
3RAILKICK:

Better be careful with those frozen balls; bad cases of frostbite are known to result in amputation. :eek:

You don't want to be known as a eunuch pool player, right?

j/k,
-Sean
Click to expand...

I'd have as much luck pissin as I am trying to use this cuetable tool -f**k!

Sorry about that

3railkick

ps: I am comforted that Mr Jewitt and Dr Dave followed exactly what I was trying to ask
 
:confused: ...
Click to expand...

Let me try in words:

1. Two object balls are frozen to each other. They point nearly at a pocket, but not quite. The cue ball sits on the other side of the balls from that pocket, so if you hit the front ball full, the back ball would just miss the pocket. What can be done to make this combination shot that's not quite "on"?

2. Two object balls frozen again, but they don't point anywhere near a pocket. But the front ball looks like when kisses off the back ball when you hit it on the side, it could go into a near-by pocket. Unfortunately, the front ball has to be taken slightly "through" the ball behind it to get to the pocket. How can you drive the front ball partly through the ball behind it?

3. The cue ball is frozen to an object ball. Fortunately, it's the one ball in a game of nine ball. The nine ball is sitting in a far pocket, just begging to be hit. Unfortunately, the cue ball and one ball point well away from the nine ball. How can you make the cue ball go through the one ball and get to the nine ball?

All of these have illustrations in the links above, but the above descriptions should be clear enough so that you can get what 3RK was asking about.
 
I am comforted that Mr Jewitt and Dr Dave followed exactly what I was trying to ask.
Click to expand...

I can vouch for that, and for the fact that their advice is very good. Follow Bob's and Dr. Dave's advice for finding the answers and you'll know all there is to know about these shots. Don't wait for answers to be typed (probably with mistakes) here.

pj
chgo
 
Tough love

:eek:I know I need to get this cuetable tool figured out-it's a great visual aid. I just need to keep testing it on my own time. Encouragement to use it is appreciated.

Thanks to those who understood and restated the setups much better than I.

Not only can I not hit the shots, I can't describe them well enough for everyone to follow along. Top that off by not being able to use this powerful cuetable tool, generously provided to us, to draw a picture--YIKES!!

Thanks-no more questions for a while

3railkick
 
3RAILKICK said:
:eek:I know I need to get this cuetable tool figured out-it's a great visual aid. I just need to keep testing it on my own time. Encouragement to use it is appreciated.

Thanks to those who understood and restated the setups much better than I.

Not only can I not hit the shots, I can't describe them well enough for everyone to follow along. Top that off by not being able to use this powerful cuetable tool, generously provided to us, to draw a picture--YIKES!!

Thanks-no more questions for a while

3railkick
Click to expand...

Do you know about this "sticky" thread?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=64559

It has instructions for pasting a CueTable.com table into your posts. There are also instructions at the CueTable.com website.

pj
chgo
 
Actually Bob, I was shown a couple of shots a few weeks ago and your 2 times fuller aiming system was exactly what I was searching for.
Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top