Opinions on Oscar Vs. Morra Match!

mikeyfrost

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
It’s early in the morning and I was up til the finish last night. I watched what I could, probably 70 or so games but felt like most games went the same way. I am very pleased with the result because I bet that way, but I have just a few comments and want to hear what others thought about the match.

First of all, that table may have been a little too tight for my liking. I almost feel like that table was better off used for one pocket or something else. The main problem with buckets is the break becomes too easy for good players. The problem with those Snooker looking pockets that Oscar and Morra played on is that no one can break good. When you win a game the break is supposed to be an advantage. The break was anything but an advantage, when you have guys that play that good, and they play roughly 180 games with less than 10 total break and runs…you gotta admit maybe the table is a little too tough.

I’m not sure if we got to see the match that we thought we would. I think most of us expected John to have some flashy runouts and use that monster break. On a table like they played on, that cut his legs off. You can tell how smooth he is and fearless he is at the table but the equipment wouldn’t allow for his style to come through. John also has got some work to do kicking and playing more lock up safeties. Those 4 inning safety battles he usually got the worst of, someone who watched more probably would say that’s the gap Oscar won by. In fact I heard Oscar actually missed more makeable shots than John which is tough to believe when he won by over 20 games.

Oscar moved like a ghost the whole match. I thought he stayed in line very well so he didn’t have to do much with the cue ball. His safety play and kicking though was the most impressive thing. I think he’s in the middle of making that jump to a top tier pro player and still flying high off of winning a major event. He looked confident and played emotionless for most of the session, I think he’s tough action. Hometown advantage also was huge, Oscar could rattle in a 2ft hangar and the crowd loved it.

I am all for having to play a little pool and not wanting to play on a leaky table but there has to be a happy medium. What are the pros and other top players saying about that table? What do you guys think about the match? If they were to play again on a Diamond with Pro Cut pockets where you can actually make balls on break, who do you like to win?
 
mikeyfrost said:
It’s early in the morning and I was up til the finish last night. I watched what I could, probably 70 or so games but felt like most games went the same way. I am very pleased with the result because I bet that way, but I have just a few comments and want to hear what others thought about the match.

First of all, that table may have been a little too tight for my liking. I almost feel like that table was better off used for one pocket or something else. The main problem with buckets is the break becomes too easy for good players. The problem with those Snooker looking pockets that Oscar and Morra played on is that no one can break good. When you win a game the break is supposed to be an advantage. The break was anything but an advantage, when you have guys that play that good, and they play roughly 180 games with less than 10 total break and runs…you gotta admit maybe the table is a little too tough.

I’m not sure if we got to see the match that we thought we would. I think most of us expected John to have some flashy runouts and use that monster break. On a table like they played on, that cut his legs off. You can tell how smooth he is and fearless he is at the table but the equipment wouldn’t allow for his style to come through. John also has got some work to do kicking and playing more lock up safeties. Those 4 inning safety battles he usually got the worst of, someone who watched more probably would say that’s the gap Oscar won by. In fact I heard Oscar actually missed more makeable shots than John which is tough to believe when he won by over 20 games.

Oscar moved like a ghost the whole match. I thought he stayed in line very well so he didn’t have to do much with the cue ball. His safety play and kicking though was the most impressive thing. I think he’s in the middle of making that jump to a top tier pro player and still flying high off of winning a major event. He looked confident and played emotionless for most of the session, I think he’s tough action. Hometown advantage also was huge, Oscar could rattle in a 2ft hangar and the crowd loved it.

I am all for having to play a little pool and not wanting to play on a leaky table but there has to be a happy medium. What are the pros and other top players saying about that table? What do you guys think about the match? If they were to play again on a Diamond with Pro Cut pockets where you can actually make balls on break, who do you like to win?
Click to expand...


Nice post sir. I have seen Morra put a 5 pack of 9-ball on a double shimmed Gold Crown in Chicago. he made pretty easy work of Santos Sambajon, but that table this weekend seemed impossible. Oscar is so underrated. Great safety play. Both players have nothing but improvement ahead for them.

Good synopsis Mikey.
 
I think John looked beat after the first 25 games of the match. He struggled with nearly every aspect of the game and his safety play was less than stellar. Oscar did a great job of locking John up tight on alot of safeties that resulted in BIH and coincidentally a win.

I wonder though since this is John's second TAR match if he has issues being in the spotlight. Initially, John was the overwhelming favorite in this match and it seemed that most bet on Oscar because they were getting money odds or games.

Nonetheless, Oscar played superbly for the duration of the match looking like the champion he is. I only wish the match would have been closer since I had no money down. But if I had of bet on Oscar I would have been absolutely thrilled to watch this match with the sizable lead.


Gary
 
mikeyfrost said:
It’s early in the morning and I was up til the finish last night. I watched what I could, probably 70 or so games but felt like most games went the same way. I am very pleased with the result because I bet that way, but I have just a few comments and want to hear what others thought about the match.

First of all, that table may have been a little too tight for my liking. I almost feel like that table was better off used for one pocket or something else. The main problem with buckets is the break becomes too easy for good players. The problem with those Snooker looking pockets that Oscar and Morra played on is that no one can break good. When you win a game the break is supposed to be an advantage. The break was anything but an advantage, when you have guys that play that good, and they play roughly 180 games with less than 10 total break and runs…you gotta admit maybe the table is a little too tough.

I’m not sure if we got to see the match that we thought we would. I think most of us expected John to have some flashy runouts and use that monster break. On a table like they played on, that cut his legs off. You can tell how smooth he is and fearless he is at the table but the equipment wouldn’t allow for his style to come through. John also has got some work to do kicking and playing more lock up safeties. Those 4 inning safety battles he usually got the worst of, someone who watched more probably would say that’s the gap Oscar won by. In fact I heard Oscar actually missed more makeable shots than John which is tough to believe when he won by over 20 games.

Oscar moved like a ghost the whole match. I thought he stayed in line very well so he didn’t have to do much with the cue ball. His safety play and kicking though was the most impressive thing. I think he’s in the middle of making that jump to a top tier pro player and still flying high off of winning a major event. He looked confident and played emotionless for most of the session, I think he’s tough action. Hometown advantage also was huge, Oscar could rattle in a 2ft hangar and the crowd loved it.

I am all for having to play a little pool and not wanting to play on a leaky table but there has to be a happy medium. What are the pros and other top players saying about that table? What do you guys think about the match? If they were to play again on a Diamond with Pro Cut pockets where you can actually make balls on break, who do you like to win?
Click to expand...


Besides taking forever. I really enjoyed the match because running out was so difficult I got to watch a ton of safety play, which on a table like this gets the cash. I also love watching players earn their money on super tough equipment. What I didn't understand is why John was so willing to go play Oscar on his home court. I respect the kid a lot for that but it is super tough to play a guy on a table he re-cloths and shimms. I think this was another huge learning experience for John and all of these tough losses, John is experiencing now, will pay-off for him in the long run.

Overall, I think TAR did an awesome job and the cameras keep getting better and better. I just think they should start offering the players more options instead of races to 100. I know I know it's the players choice, but the players have to understand they have paying customers who want to see a competitve event every night. The last night was uneventful. I will keep saying it and I know I get heat for it, but they should play best two out of three sets races to 35 over three nights. Or they can play an ahead set because ahead sets are never over til they are over. People have comeback from deaths door in ahead sets a million times and watching a guy come from behind is probably the most exciting thing to watch in pool.
 
I love the fact that the table was super tight. I compare it to Golf and the setup of courses at the major events. They are setup super tough so scoring is closer to par. You see the truer game. I like that.

Oscar's safety play was beyond stellar. He played so many lock down safeties it was really mind boggling. Overall the play was slow but if you think about it, Oscar 'sees' the safeties rather quickly. About as fast as many of us see the runout. That, in itself, is impressive. I watched Oscar play at the DCC and it was more of a runout match. He definitely is a mature player to be able to adjust his game and style based on the conditions.

Oscar was obviously nervous on the first day and had trouble finding his pace of play. Once the score got in the 20s, he finally found it and from there the match was over. Staying with that pace the second day made his lead too big for Johnny to overcome.

Johnny takes losing better than 99% of the pool players in the world. With his high expectations on this match along with the money pressure, he certainly handles himself with class. I am sure that doesn't mean much to him right now but in the long run it will.

I find no fault in Johnny for going to play Oscar on that table. He knew which table they were going to play on and admitted to liking it. Oscar simply played better.
 
Good posts fellas. I did want to see some of the Morra that breaks the balls hard and gets out from places that others can't. I think we got to see some of Oscar's best game and how smart of a player he is. I agree about liking tough equipment where players earn everything but I do think this table beat these guys up. What it have been different if say Archer and SVB were playing, I don't think so to be truthful.

I really like the long race format. If you do 2 out of 3 sets sometimes you won't see a third set. Long ahead sets can play differently as well. The John going to Oscar thing probably is the only way John could get Oscar to play because Oscar is in school and works.

Whoever brought up that Morra may not do well under the big lights, maybe that is true as he is now 0-2 in TAR matches. I'm thinking it probably isn't much of a factor though. The guy seems to always be in tough action so I think mentally that didn't hurt him nearly as much as say hitting the jaws of the pocket and hanging that 10 ball early in the match.
 
mikeyfrost said:
It’s early in the morning and I was up til the finish last night. I watched what I could, probably 70 or so games but felt like most games went the same way. I am very pleased with the result because I bet that way, but I have just a few comments and want to hear what others thought about the match.

First of all, that table may have been a little too tight for my liking. I almost feel like that table was better off used for one pocket or something else. The main problem with buckets is the break becomes too easy for good players. The problem with those Snooker looking pockets that Oscar and Morra played on is that no one can break good. When you win a game the break is supposed to be an advantage. The break was anything but an advantage, when you have guys that play that good, and they play roughly 180 games with less than 10 total break and runs…you gotta admit maybe the table is a little too tough.

I’m not sure if we got to see the match that we thought we would. I think most of us expected John to have some flashy runouts and use that monster break. On a table like they played on, that cut his legs off. You can tell how smooth he is and fearless he is at the table but the equipment wouldn’t allow for his style to come through. John also has got some work to do kicking and playing more lock up safeties. Those 4 inning safety battles he usually got the worst of, someone who watched more probably would say that’s the gap Oscar won by. In fact I heard Oscar actually missed more makeable shots than John which is tough to believe when he won by over 20 games.

Oscar moved like a ghost the whole match. I thought he stayed in line very well so he didn’t have to do much with the cue ball. His safety play and kicking though was the most impressive thing. I think he’s in the middle of making that jump to a top tier pro player and still flying high off of winning a major event. He looked confident and played emotionless for most of the session, I think he’s tough action. Hometown advantage also was huge, Oscar could rattle in a 2ft hangar and the crowd loved it.

I am all for having to play a little pool and not wanting to play on a leaky table but there has to be a happy medium. What are the pros and other top players saying about that table? What do you guys think about the match? If they were to play again on a Diamond with Pro Cut pockets where you can actually make balls on break, who do you like to win?
Click to expand...

I did not watch the match but looking at the game results for the final day http://www.oldpoolhall.com/tarupdates/oscarjohn.htm I noticed that there were 10 run outs from the opponents dry break. Just saying.

Steve
 
Oscar played great.

IMO the table was too damn tight. 11 runouts in 180 games??? <1%. I understand the top players/tough equiptment standpoint, but it changes the whole game. Play snooker not 10 ball.
 
I really like mikeyfrosts original analysis of the match, and I'd just like to add a few things. These are all my opinions. The table was too tight, over the top tight! My co-com Kenny said it best, "The pockets looked like thimbles." The problem with this is it doesn't allow either player to fall into any kind of a rhythm. They must slow down and take a good look at nearly every shot. Looking down the rail was scary and a little strange. It was as if the near corner was jutting out into the pocket opening.

Only a few times in the entire match did I see either player move at a nice pace. Most every game was a safety battle with multiple innings. Now that's interesting but not game after game, for hours on end. It's also interesting to see someone run a few nice racks, and that was near impossible here. Near the end John actually broke and ran two racks, the longest run of the match! This is one of John's big weapons, the ability to string racks, but it wasn't going to happen on this box.

Another thing about a super tight table. Balls don't go on the break! Why? There's so little pocket openings to accept them. Even a monster breaker like Shane would be frustrated on this table. The first day I came in there (Friday) I took one look at this table and said it looks like a snooker table, and is better suited for a One Pocket match. Maybe John thought he could out shoot Oscar on this "gaff" table. What he may not have realized is that 90% of the games would be safety battles. Oscar's big advantage was his ability to hide the cue ball and then get ball in hand. John's kicking was only average and he missed way too many balls he kicked at.

They may have just as well been playing alternate break as having the break was literally no advantage whatsoever. Because of this the match was entirely too long. A Race To Sixty would have worked here, going to 20 each day. That would have still been a long match. This match was over the top long! Well over 25 hours in total. Only two youngsters like this could have stood up there so well all three days. One last thing about the table. Oscar's dad Ernesto set it up and it certainly favored his son. A lot of Ernesto's money was in the middle too. Maybe John and his dad felt like he could handle the conditions, but that proved not to be the case.

I have to admire both these young man for being such good sportsmen and competitors. I give them both high praise. They got up there and battled every day for hours on end, without any sharking or other moves taking place. They were respectful of each other at all times! I like to see guys like this go at it, and not see one disagreement after another, which has happened so often in other big money matches. Both Oscar and John are winners in my book, and I give credit to their dads for instilling this character in them.

John never quit! He may have gotten somewhat frustrated at times, but he was trying to win every game. The spectators, both live and on the net, got their money's worth and more. Under different circumstance John may be able to beat Oscar. The results were inconclusive as far as I'm concerned. All it proved to me is that Oscar is the better strategic player. He did make more good decisions throughout the One Pocket match. OOPS! It sure did seem like one sometimes.

My hat is off also to Justin Collett of TAR. His set up and equipment keeps getting better and better and the quality of the TAR shows is improving all the time. He also had good camera guys in Andy Chen and Daniel Bush. TAR sets the high water mark when it comes to internet broadcasting of pool! I enjoyed doing the commentary with Kenny Shuman and we always had a lot to talk about. I did finally get tired myself toward the end of day three. A special thanks to Eddie Arrequin, his wife Yolanda and their family who hosted this event at Hard Times. They did some major revamping to accommodate the match and lost income on several tables at key hours. Eddie has done a lot to once again make Hard Times the premier place for pool in Southern California. The place looks good, business is booming and the customers are happy. A winning formula!

Congratulations to Oscar! You played good buddy!
 
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mikeyfrost said:
It’s early in the morning and I was up til the finish last night. I watched what I could, probably 70 or so games but felt like most games went the same way. I am very pleased with the result because I bet that way, but I have just a few comments and want to hear what others thought about the match.

First of all, that table may have been a little too tight for my liking. I almost feel like that table was better off used for one pocket or something else. The main problem with buckets is the break becomes too easy for good players. The problem with those Snooker looking pockets that Oscar and Morra played on is that no one can break good. When you win a game the break is supposed to be an advantage. The break was anything but an advantage, when you have guys that play that good, and they play roughly 180 games with less than 10 total break and runs…you gotta admit maybe the table is a little too tough.

I’m not sure if we got to see the match that we thought we would. I think most of us expected John to have some flashy runouts and use that monster break. On a table like they played on, that cut his legs off. You can tell how smooth he is and fearless he is at the table but the equipment wouldn’t allow for his style to come through. John also has got some work to do kicking and playing more lock up safeties. Those 4 inning safety battles he usually got the worst of, someone who watched more probably would say that’s the gap Oscar won by. In fact I heard Oscar actually missed more makeable shots than John which is tough to believe when he won by over 20 games.

Oscar moved like a ghost the whole match. I thought he stayed in line very well so he didn’t have to do much with the cue ball. His safety play and kicking though was the most impressive thing. I think he’s in the middle of making that jump to a top tier pro player and still flying high off of winning a major event. He looked confident and played emotionless for most of the session, I think he’s tough action. Hometown advantage also was huge, Oscar could rattle in a 2ft hangar and the crowd loved it.

I am all for having to play a little pool and not wanting to play on a leaky table but there has to be a happy medium. What are the pros and other top players saying about that table? What do you guys think about the match? If they were to play again on a Diamond with Pro Cut pockets where you can actually make balls on break, who do you like to win?
Click to expand...
Ditto your post. Oscar's safety play had me chuckling to myself it was so good. You know that Morra plays better than that--maybe he's never played on tight equipment like that.
I hope I get to see Oscar play some 1 pocket some time. His cue ball and creativity just beg for it.
 
Good post up Jay, much appreciated. I want to see them play somewhere where the balls go in the hole when u break.
 
Jay-

I did want to discuss a comment you made on the stream and I believe in a post about the ten ball not counting on the break. Your opinion is that it should count because it is harder to make on the break than 9 ball. Basically, if I am allowed to translate, if it happens it happens.

I believe the purpose of 10 ball is to find out who the better player is. Someone winning a game by making the 10 ball on the break does not prove who the better player is. There is always the luck factor in any pool game, even after the break, but I like to see the luck factor removed as much as possible. As much as possible, I want to see who the better player is for that day or that match. Not who got luckier. I don't think you could call making the 10 ball on the break a skill, unless you allow someone to be a rack mechanic to cause it to happen.

Call your pocket 10 ball would be an even better game. I believe Mark G. is looking at this rule for his US Open 10 Ball championship in Vegas in May.

p.s. thanks for your commentary and entertainment over the weekend. I want one of your books but it has got to be autographed. Can we make this happen?
 
watchez said:
If they did, Oscar would be the definite underdog and I'll take some odds and bet on him. :grin:
Click to expand...

Hmmm so would I...I say I agree with Jay and the original match was inconclusive and Morra is still the 5:4 favorite. That's just my opinion. If balls go and he has a chance to get in gear I don't know if Oscar can fade packages, I say that because he didn't have to fade any of them.
 
i heard oscar had all the action himself. that's huge! i'd like to play for everything i've got one day (and win hopefully) but i just don't have it in me now.

are the TAR guys going to sell a dvd of this match?
 
Oscar/Morra

I get so tired of the if questions..If if was a fifth we would all be drunk...They both played on the same table..The most untrackable stat is how fast you adjust to different conditions as a pool player and especially a road player...Everywhere you play that aint your home table is some one elses..so after the initial oh shit this table is tight syndrome..Morra should of adjusted his game..period...You guys talking like Oscar is nothing but a safety specialist..what about those sick jump shots he made all day..Oh my..Also did ODB beat Shane.Corey.Shawn Putnam on a gaff table No....The guy can straight up play..You guys keep underestimating my man and ill keep collecting that cheddar...One more thing since Oscars dad did the table to favor his son..Do you think he programmed it to have him misss all of those straight in ten balls..and chippies...Gimme a break Im just sayin if you gonna call it call it right...Just my tired opinion from being there all 3 days....And im not a Morra hater either me and him are cool I in fact held the stake for my man...And i gotta say that the loose ball firing J Morra in the last legs of the seession is a hell of alot better than the one I saw the rest of the match..I think the youngblood learned something about his self ...congrats to both combatants and I know Ill see both of them in the winners circle sooner than later...
 
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Morra

I only watched the stream last night, and from what I saw, Johnny Morra has a few things he needs to do in order to make a jump, at least in the gambling realm. First and foremost, he could never find a comfortable speed of play. He would play quick for a while and look ok, but then miss and easy ball and go back to taking his time, which didn't help him either. Secondly, he really is going to have to work on his moving and kicking. He lost nearly every game that went 4 or more innings. Finally, somebody needs to explain that you do not take breaks when you are playing good. Morra ran a nice rack, then he broke and ran out, and then he decided to take what seemed like a 10 minute break. Guess what happened when he came back? He broke and scratched. This is basic knowledge and unless he had some type of bathroom emergency he should have never took that break. Granted the outcome would still be the same in this particular match, but if he operates like that in the future it is going to cost him.

Final thoughts....I think Morra will make a fine tournament player and probably when a major tournament someday. However, I really believe he is uncomfortable gambling that high, and especially on TAR. I have heard a lot of stories of him beating good players for not such high action, and losing to players I thought he would beat for high action. TAR may not be for everybody to play on, and I think for some reason it is not suited for him. Maybe it is too much pressure, or maybe he has just had a couple bad outings while playing on TAR.

Congrats to both players for keeping themselves composed and for the great sportsmanship. It is nice to see that the next generation of players will treat one another with respect and handle business.
 
I started playing on a 9' Metro Tournament Edition with 4" pockets about 2 months ago. It drove me nuts when I first started playing on it. It took about 40 hours of play to get use to the tight pockets. It is hard to make a ball on the break with 4" pockets.

Frank the Barber said that Oscar had a 4" pocket table at home which Ernesto setup. I'm sure this was a HUGE advantage for Oscar. I think if the pockets were 4 1/2" or even 4 1/4" the score would of been much closer and Morra could of won.
 
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