Best US player: Archer or SVB?

the420trooper

the420trooper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Johnny has a proven record of being able to win major tournaments consistently. He's performed at his current level of play for about 20 years now, and has been destroying the hopes and dreams of many an up and coming player.

Shane has a record of winning gambling matches where he has by far the worse end...He has the heart of a champion, and the ball pocketing skills of Luther Lassiter...

Who do you think would win in a TAR format challenge? (Race to 100, 10 ball?)

Also, which player do you think history will remember more favorably?
 
I think Johnny has an advantage in most games, because of experience(except 10 ball because of Shanes break). I think right now the best player would have to be Archer but Shane isn't going to let it stay that way for very long because like many have said he has the best work ethic of any pool player out there and is constantly improving.

I think I heard something on this forum about these two matching up. Shane said he wouldn't play Johnny on a Gold Crown and Johnny said he wouldn't play Shane on a diamond....I could be remembering this wrong though
 
Basically if Shane wants to play Johnny he has to go to Johnny's room and play on a Gold Crown. Maybe it will happen some day I wouldn't hold my breath. I suspect if someone wanted to pay enough they would probably play somewhere else but who knows.

Johnny is where Shane hopes to be one day. I think he will get there but he has many years ahead of him to match what Johnny has done. To me it is generational thing, it is a natural progression you see in all sports and games. I am just glad I get to see it happen.

One guy I think could match Johnny's accomplishments if he really wanted to is Corey. But he doesn't seem to have the same drive or desire or whatever you want to call it that Johnny and Shane seem to possess.
 
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poolhustla61508 said:
I think Johnny has an advantage in most games, because of experience(except 10 ball because of Shanes break). I think right now the best player would have to be Archer but Shane isn't going to let it stay that way for very long because like many have said he has the best work ethic of any pool player out there and is constantly improving.

I think I heard something on this forum about these two matching up. Shane said he wouldn't play Johnny on a Gold Crown and Johnny said he wouldn't play Shane on a diamond....I could be remembering this wrong though
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I've seen Johnny break 10 ball, and he ain't no slouch. Also, Johnny plays better on 4' pockets than anyone I've ever seen. I find it hard to believe that he won't play Shane on a Diamond....Tight pockets don't seem to make any difference to him.

I personally think Johnny would murder Shane in a long race. He's just much more consistent, and he treats every shot with great respect, (esp. the break), and he gets out in places where others play safe.

IMO, Shane has a long way to go before touching the status of JA, and this is not a knock on SVB's game. He plays great, but I think JA is the greatest player that America has produced so far...
 
I agree 100% with everything that's been said here so far... JA is all of what you guys say and so is Shane. As for the gambling comparison, I've seen Johnny match up about 30 or so times since I started playing this game in 1992. I've seen him give ENORMOUS weight to great players and make them all look like APA 6s. I've never seen Johnny lose a match for the dough, sets yes but he always got there before they quit. I think Johnny is the best player America ever produced also, but I also believe Shane has everything it takes to be the next Archer(IF there ever is another). odviously Corey has the talent but I think we all know it takes alot more than just that, damn shame too because I really think Corey has more talent than ANYONE american or otherwise...
 
the420trooper said:
I've seen Johnny break 10 ball, and he ain't no slouch. Also, Johnny plays better on 4' pockets than anyone I've ever seen. I find it hard to believe that he won't play Shane on a Diamond....Tight pockets don't seem to make any difference to him.

I personally think Johnny would murder Shane in a long race. He's just much more consistent, and he treats every shot with great respect, (esp. the break), and he gets out in places where others play safe.

IMO, Shane has a long way to go before touching the status of JA, and this is not a knock on SVB's game. He plays great, but I think JA is the greatest player that America has produced so far...
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I agree Johnny has an awesome break in any game he plays but I don't think anyone in the world has a better ten ball break than Shane and most would agree....Tight pockets I don't think are the reason they won't play cause I'f I'm not mistaken Johnny is always practicing on a gold crown with 3.75 inch pockets....I'm gonna go back and see if I can find the post where I heard they wouldn't play each other on certain tables and If anyone else remembers it please help me out to find it.
 
What has Johnny Archer done lately? Obviously he's got a resume that can't be argued with, but I don't recall a good finish in a major event from him in the past several years. I'm sure that's more a statement of my ignorance than Johnny's lack of productivity, so someone post up some recent pool accomplishments.

-Andrew
 
for the cash, i would choose johnny. the only person johnny hasn't beaten for the cash is c.j. wiley (years ago). shane is not quite ready for mr. archer. jmo.
 
IMO, Archer is still the #1 player in the US. Shane has to beat him in a long race not just once, but at least a few times. BUT Archer is not getting any younger. He knows his days on top is slowly slipping away. Kinda reminds me of Efren losing his #1 spot to Dennis in the Phillippines.

Shane is in the right direction though. He WILL be the next big thing in the US.
 
Not to get flamed, but I don't think JA has SVB's run-out ability anymore.

During the Million Dollar 9-Ball last year, I believe each match was 21 games or something like that. Everyone played the exact same number or games (whatever that number was, I forget). After something like 150 games played, SVB and Corey won the most games with each of them having a huge B&R %.

At one point, SVB won 68 games with 38 B&Rs. Ladies, that's beating the ghost in a race to 60 WITHOUT taking ball-in-hand.

I like JA a lot, but SVB's explosiveness is tough to fade.
 
To me it is too close to call who's better right now. If I was betting on ahead races I'd go with Johnny A. in 9-ball and Shane in 10-ball. But I really think that either game if they played everyday for a few weeks the outcome would be very close at the end in both games. Johnnyt
 
poolhustla61508 said:
I think Johnny has an advantage in most games, because of experience(except 10 ball because of Shanes break). I think right now the best player would have to be Archer but Shane isn't going to let it stay that way for very long because like many have said he has the best work ethic of any pool player out there and is constantly improving.

I think I heard something on this forum about these two matching up. Shane said he wouldn't play Johnny on a Gold Crown and Johnny said he wouldn't play Shane on a diamond....I could be remembering this wrong though
Click to expand...

I haven't had the pleasure of seeing SVB play, but saw Johnny this past weekend in a 10-ball format and his break was awesome. Furthermore, his focus and disciplined pre-shot routine was extremely impressive. Needless to say, his shot-making was stellar.
 
the420trooper said:
Johnny has a proven record of being able to win major tournaments consistently. He's performed at his current level of play for about 20 years now, and has been destroying the hopes and dreams of many an up and coming player.

Shane has a record of winning gambling matches where he has by far the worse end...He has the heart of a champion, and the ball pocketing skills of Luther Lassiter...

Who do you think would win in a TAR format challenge? (Race to 100, 10 ball?)

Also, which player do you think history will remember more favorably?
Click to expand...

I think Shane will continue to improve and get better and better, if he doesn't burn out! he is a great young man with a great work ethic, BUT, to compare his ball pocketing ability to luther Lassiter is way, way premature. IMO, he is a far strech from reaching where Buddy or Ear were in their prime. I hope he gets there, as he is a great young man, but quite a ways to go yet!! IMO!
 
JesseBfan said:
I agree 100% with everything that's been said here so far... JA is all of what you guys say and so is Shane. As for the gambling comparison, I've seen Johnny match up about 30 or so times since I started playing this game in 1992. I've seen him give ENORMOUS weight to great players and make them all look like APA 6s. I've never seen Johnny lose a match for the dough, sets yes but he always got there before they quit. I think Johnny is the best player America ever produced also, but I also believe Shane has everything it takes to be the next Archer(IF there ever is another). odviously Corey has the talent but I think we all know it takes alot more than just that, damn shame too because I really think Corey has more talent than ANYONE american or otherwise...
Click to expand...

A race to 100 would ba a helluva mach up that would be interesting to see. It would truly be gambling in my opinion. Archer is more consistant, but I think Shane's high gear has a little more top end that Johnny's.

As far as the statement made about Archer being the best America has EVER produced is a little skewed in my opinion. He's the best 9-ball of his generation, but I don't think he's the best America has ever produced. I'm telling my age a little bit, but I saw Harold Worst, Luther Lassiter and Don Willis play and for the cash I'd take any of the three over Archer in 9-ball. But, at the same time it was a different era and the rules weren't exactly the same. Nevertheless, truly great plays would adapt and Worst, Lassiter and Willis would be great in any era. Not to take anything away from Archer, because he's a champion many times over. I like watching Johnny play and his consistant play during the last 20 years has been impressive.
 
I have written this before but to me this says it all. At last years Derby City I spent alot of time with Jose Parica, he is funny as hell. Anyway we were talking throughout the week about a bunch of different things and the day after Shane beat Efren, Jose said Efren shouldnt of played Shane the night before because Efren had been playing the one pocket and 9 ball tournaments for over 12 hours before Shane and him played and Efren was already worn out. He looked really tired and was constantly rubbing his eyes during the match. Anyway I was asking him about who the best Philipino player is now and he said Dennis and that Alex isnt playing enough pool right now. So than I asked him if everyone is playing their bet right now who would you bet on playing 10 ball( and I was sure he was going to say a Philipino) and he turned around and pointed at Johnny Archer who was standing about 10 feet away. He said since himself, Efren, and Bustamante have all been in America they have all won about one player of the year each and Johnny has won like 15! he started laughing. He said Johnny has proven it over a long time. My conclusion- Good enough for Jose Parica good enough for me.
 
the420trooper said:
Johnny has a proven record of being able to win major tournaments consistently. He's performed at his current level of play for about 20 years now, and has been destroying the hopes and dreams of many an up and coming player.

Shane has a record of winning gambling matches where he has by far the worse end...He has the heart of a champion, and the ball pocketing skills of Luther Lassiter...

Who do you think would win in a TAR format challenge? (Race to 100, 10 ball?)

Also, which player do you think history will remember more favorably?
Click to expand...
IMO. If Johnny would leave the lint alone and play he is the better player. I think it's very close but I like Johnny. I think lint obsession costs him some nice tempo run outs.
 
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