Poll: Do you use BHE, FHE, parallel english or all 3?
- Thread starter KoolKat9Lives
- Start date
If you attack everything you don't understand you won't have time for anything else, Dave.
pj
chgo
Joe T
Well-known member
No way, I don't want to ruin it
Cut down the flat ended ones to test it out, I wanna see if you come up with any pivoting in info that I can test out.
It's all good in my book. Having a little fun is important here. There's obviously a lot of people with differing views, lots of misinformation, people using stroke methods they aren't even aware of, and commonly used terms that are misnomers - add that to a lot of passionate people about the game while communicating via text only can be difficult.
I can only assume Patrick you've been down this road many times before and it can get old. I appreciate your input, as well as so many others here. Hopefully a number of people have been helped here and that a small dent has been put into the confusion.
:thumbup:
I was just cracking a "funny" Pat! I wasn't even antagonizing you! Don't take everything so serious.
Sometimes, you're so smart with this shit that you get defensive and sometimes aggressive if someone says something wrong or something you disagree with. I'm sorry if I pissed ya off-- I was just trying to get a cheap laugh.
And for the record, I understand all of this stuff. Appying english isn't something I sweat.
I find this thread interesting in the fact that only JoeT (valued instructor) has joined in this conversation.
Mr. Johnson is a very well known forum member that shares opinions. He has a real job and plays pool. Just like most of us that post here.
Where are the BCA Certified instuctors and their teaching opinions? Why haven't they offered to chime in with their FACTS?
Maybe this is part of the COST of lessons and to give it away for free would be considered a NO-NO.
Curious minds would like to know.
If you don't like the term 'parallel english' you could just call it 'ghost spot' english.
Mr. Johnson is a very well known forum member that shares opinions. He has a real job and plays pool. Just like most of us that post here.
Where are the BCA Certified instuctors and their teaching opinions? Why haven't they offered to chime in with their FACTS?
Maybe this is part of the COST of lessons and to give it away for free would be considered a NO-NO.
Curious minds would like to know.
If you don't like the term 'parallel english' you could just call it 'ghost spot' english.
Other than choosing where the cue stick impacts the cue ball, I don't even think about how the english gets applied, just about how I want the CB to roll down the line to the point of impact.
My BHE practice session
Before - I was having to account for so damn much deflection with my prior parallel-ish inside english method, it now seems ridiculous.
I hit the table for a practice session last night. I tried only BHE to keep it simple for my 1st step and only used it on inside english applications. It will take some time getting used to of course, but my 1st strong impression -
it really works and will absolutely improve my game. The action of the CB after OB impact is far better, meaning I don't have to hit as hard to get whitey to its desired position. Aiming accuracy, given the adjustments on bridge length and for far less (to zero) deflection, will be easier once I get more comfortable.
Before - I was having to account for so damn much deflection with my prior parallel-ish inside english method, it now seems ridiculous.
I hit the table for a practice session last night. I tried only BHE to keep it simple for my 1st step and only used it on inside english applications. It will take some time getting used to of course, but my 1st strong impression -
it really works and will absolutely improve my game. The action of the CB after OB impact is far better, meaning I don't have to hit as hard to get whitey to its desired position. Aiming accuracy, given the adjustments on bridge length and for far less (to zero) deflection, will be easier once I get more comfortable.
I don't know what category my English falls into. The one type of English I seldom use is low inside. I can't really say why except I don't feel comfortable with it. High inside and outside and low outside I use all the time but rarely low inside.
Not that anybody besides me gives a damn.
Not that anybody besides me gives a damn.
Low-inside is crucial for spinning the CB down the table when you have a larger angle into the rail.
Pivoting is the best way to make this shot
Do you, or others, pivot for outside english as well? Seems we've only been talking about inside applications.
I pivot on everything. I even pivot to center english. For little gimme shots, I'll shoot with a straight cue... but almost never.
When you're accustomed to pivoting on every shot, you get "good" at pivoting. When you get good at pivoting, it makes these shots SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier.
I play a lot of 14.1. I learned the benefit of low-inside "side of the rack" breakshots from Joe Tucker. At the time, my pivot knowledge was REALLY weak and I wasn't up to speed with CTE (as a matter of fact, I didn't know CTE at all). On the way home from my lesson with Joe, Hal called my cell and told me to stop by his house (which, of course, I did).
After those two crucial lessons, my 14.1 game started to really pick up speed....way faster than I thought. The plateau I was camping on got nuked and I just kept getting better (and still am).
I'm pretty comfy with inside english and I'll shoot inside english shots all day if I have to. I use low inside english on almost 90% of my side-rack breakshots (because I like to shoot the break shot REAAALLY hard - screw tapping a few balls out at a time, who's that good?).
In conclusion, it's all about the pivot and the OB reference point you're using to establish the pivot. If I had to FHE or parallel or feel the english I'd still be camping on that plateau wondering when I'd figure it out. Or, I'd keep having those "real good" days followed by those "I wanna quit" days. Pivoting has really stabilized my game.... ESPECIALLY for english. That's why I voted BHE in the poll...every single shot.
Low doesn't add anything to this shot unless you're hitting it slowly enough for some speed to wear off the CB on the way to the OB.
For you. Pivoting is the best way for you to make a centerball shot too, but that's obviously not typical.
pj
chgo
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I don't know what you mean. How about a cuetable diagram?
PJ-
It's situational. If you don't have a natural angle that allows you to come straight down the rail---you need the low. It's one of the very, very few situations where low english makes you follow. I wish I could do a cuetable-- but with my Mac-- I'm not sure why they're not displaying. Of course, this is a high spin / slower speed shot.
If anyone else is reading this and knows what I'm referring to -- please post a diagram so PJ will understand it.
As far as the pivoting - leave it up to PJ to determine what's typical and what's not
Dave
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Like I said, only if you hit slow enough for the CB to start rolling again before hitting the OB. If it's still got draw on it, it will draw, not follow.
Do you think pivoting into a centerball shot is a typical thing for pool players to do?
pj
chgo
Regarding the low, PJ, you're wrong. Experiment with different angles into the rail and hit them with high, inside and low inside. See which english keeps the CB closer to the rail (smallest rebound angle).
If the CB was rolling again, you'd get the same reaction as straight inside english - and that's not the case.
Please, is there anyone else on here who has a clue of what I'm referring to? My Snow Leopard has my Shockwave totally F-ed so I can't make a diagram.
Like I said, please at least try this before making your next post. Thanks, bud. That way, you'll see what I'm referring to without me making another profound video. You can greatly reduce the rebound angle and come straight forward with the draw.
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Try reading what I said before making your next post, "bud". I didn't say using low with inside can't reduce the angle of the CB off the rail - I said it can only do that if you hit the CB slow enough so that it's rolling again (with inside spin) when it hits the OB.
You're simply wrong about this, and you might know it if you took your own advice and tried it. I even described how it works for you: the draw takes some speed off the CB but leaves the sidespin (mostly) undiminished, so the spin-to-speed ratio is greater than you can get with sidespin alone. In case you don't know it (it seems you don't), the spin-to-speed ratio determines the spin's effectiveness in changing angles off the rail. That's how your shot is working, whether you know it or not.
By the way, I also said it's a well-known technique which I've used for years.
If it wasn't for others who might be confused by your confusion, it wouldn't be worth trying to correct you. You obviously don't listen.
pj
chgo
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