Breaking and your dominent eye. HUGE!!!

[genomachino]

You got it.............

Joey,

I tend to be very weakly right eye dominant. I can work to strengthen that dominance when I need to and do for pistol competition. Oddly enough, I fight just as hard to do a better job taking in information with my left eye shooting benchrest.

When using the finger test, the finger often moves when I close either eye. I can also force dominance and move the finger back and forth without closing either eye.

One major merit I see to Gene's teachings as I understand them is that you do determine which eye you want dominant for a shot. Paying attention to which eye is dominant might be a huge help for people like myself. I actually think I have three forms of vision, right eye dominant, left eye dominant, and true balanced binocular vision with both eyes working equally. In theory I think I would prefer the last state but when I miss badly I think it is often because I don't recognize which state of vision I am using at the time. Choosing one in the preshot routine would probably help me a ton.

Hu

If you had to make a shot for all the bananas with your gun which eye would you rather shot with? Maybe the slightly dominent one or I don't know how it would work with guns.

 

[genomachino]

Thank you........................

nonsense. our brain overlaps one point of view over the other otherwise everything will be blurry.

Good point.

 

[genomachino]

To much info

OK I thought I was right eye but it turns out I am left eye I tested before using my hand but done it again using a knee brace that has a hole over the knee and I am left eye Dom.

So my question is.. I do not notice any spin on the cue ball when I break. Yes it comes off the rack and may hit a rail (right rail most of the time) but there is not SPIN once the ball has stopped. Should I sitll try to move 1/4" to the right with the cue or not?

I'll PM you the answer...........

 

[Maniac]

I think this could be a good arguement though. kind of like my dad can beat up your dad. How do you prove it?

Ummm, by putting your dad up against my dad !!!

Maniac

 

[Patrick Johnson]

randyg:
What should I do if I don't have a dominant eye?

JohnPT:
nonsense. our brain overlaps one point of view over the other otherwise everything will be blurry.

geno:
Good point.

Except eye dominance isn't what makes the image clear. Eye dominance is a preference for one eye's image when a single image is needed, for instance in precision viewing such as aligning things for aiming. And it's pretty generally accepted by the experts that a certain number of people don't have a dominant eye.

pj
chgo

 

[ShootingArts]

betting my life?

Both eyes open and working, rifle or pistol! My right eye is the one I use as the dominant eye by choice largely because I am right handed. However, to acquire a fast moving target or multiple targets in a hurry I need both eyes doing their share. Even to acquire one target and hit it perfectly I want both eyes open.

I haven't been shooting benchrest lately but the information from both eyes is very important. The one not behind the scope might be the more critical eye. I may work at shooting left eye behind the scope for awhile and see how that works.

Getting back to pool, many ways to skin a cat. When there was a thread about how many balls have you hit awhile back I did the cyphering and figured I had hit well over two million and that was before taking a several decade break. Hit thousands of balls a week for ten years and most things that are generally considered the right way to do things can be ignored. Taking the same shortcuts now gets me in trouble because I am not hitting as many balls in a year as I once hit in a week or two.

That is the real advantage of all of the quality instructors today. They can vastly shorten your learning curve and they can make your practice time far more effective. I made a pretty major equipment change and I'll be shooting your spot shots down the rails with the balls about a half inch off of each diamond tomorrow to recalibrate my aim with a new bridge.

Hu

If you had to make a shot for all the bananas with your gun which eye would you rather shot with? Maybe the slightly dominent one or I don't know how it would work with guns.

 

[branpureza]

what if you just have two eyes that suck?

 

[genomachino]

When you aim the break ...............

Not trying to start a "post war" so don't misunderstand, but I have to ask so I can learn something.

Most or everything (I just read focus on the head ball so I can't say everything) I read or hear about breaking says to look at the cue ball last.

I do focus last on the 2nd ball for 8 ball but not the head ball than it's the cue ball.

When you aim the break and you address the cue ball. Make sure you have the cue close to the cue ball. While you are aiming you want to hold everything still. Don't be stroking your cue until you are all done aiming.

Now the cue is exactly where you want it. You don't have to worry about it as much. Now your focus is on the head ball and you go back and forth doing any small adjustments that you think you need to do.

When you pull the trigger though you definitely want to be looking it the head ball .

Imagine this. We are going to throw a spear. The target is 100 feet away. When you are throwing the spear you would pause on your bringing it back. Then when you throw it I guarantee you will be looking at the target right to the end of you letting it go. Even on the very end if you thought it wasn't quite right you would try to do a last second correction. This would be a mistake because it is almost too late to correct.

The same with a pool cue except that we are doing it underhand. If the shot doesn't look quite right we might try to correct when it is too late. This is why we jump or twist or shoot to hard or too soft sometimes. We don't even know what's wrong but it doesn't look right. But you do need to look at the object ball and the head ball when you pull the trigger.

I don't know who would try to teach players to look at the cue ball last. I would question their ability because I don't think they really got it going on.

I just gave a young man a lesson at the Brickyard in Indy. He just sent me a PM telling me that it is working out alot better looking at the object ball when he strokes. I just noticed he was doing this during the lesson and knew we had to correct this before we went any further.

Anyway Good luck Thanks for the input......Geno.........

 

[genomachino]

Except eye dominance isn't what makes the image clear. Eye dominance is a preference for one eye's image when a single image is needed, for instance in precision viewing such as aligning things for aiming. And it's pretty generally accepted by the experts that a certain number of people don't have a dominant eye.

pj
chgo

These experts need to do some more research. I'd like to know who these so called experts are. I don't trust anything that someone just says. Especially if I know so far what I know.

Your dominent eye runs the whole show. It puts both eyes in the proper position when you shoot. This is why some players think that they only shoot with their dominent eye.

Now there are some players that do shoot with one eye but not very many. Like maybe 1 in 200. maybe 2. The ones that can do this play pretty good.

PJ, did you get the perfect Aim video. I seem to remember you name?
If you did it should be explained in the video.

 

[genomachino]

Doesn't matter.

what if you just have two eyes that suck?

I was in a poolhall in Minn. I was trying to explain to these 3 guys that they needed to know Perfect Aim and I should give them a lesson. At this point in time I had no video. It was back in Feb 2009.

The one guy said to me; So it will help anyone. My reply was yes. And if you don't think it will help you after we're done you don't have to pay. He hollers out to a young gal and tells her to come over. We'll just call her Sally. Will this help Sally. My reply was yes. This will help anyone. Then I noticed Sally was kind of cross eyed.

I took Sally over to the other side of the poolroom and worked with her for about 30 minutes. When I first started she could hardly hit the object ball. At the end of the 30 minutes she was actually shooting some balls in.

We went back over to the 3 guys and they wanted to see the results.
She was making about 1/3 of the shots she was shooting and she was just thrilled. One of the guys was poking fun at her and the other one told him to shut up.

He said wow, even the shots that she is missing are at least close. Sally started to smile. She was pretty proud about how she was shooting.

I told her, Now Sally ,I don't want you showing these guys what you learned. She looked at me and smiled again and said ;You got to be kidding. She wasn't going to show nothing to them ever.

Now I'm sure there would be some physical problems that would make it impossible to shoot pool but learning how to line up the eyes is huge............

 

[Gerry]

You know something Geno, this thread basically is my game in a nutshell. For YEARS I have been trying to "change" my game over to a snooker style, but it NEVER felt natural.

For the last year I went back to what feels right, BUT I have to make mental adjustments for every shot. When I get behind the shot it looks good but, when I get down on the shot I over cut balls to the right, and under cut to the left....I"m a lefty btw. Also when I'm more upright on all shots the exact opposite is true...weird, but VERY consistent.

So, now I deal with it and make my mental adjustment without any doubt about missing. Every time I miss it is because I shot too quick without the proper preshot thoughts.

There is a happy medium where I don't need to adjust, but you can't always be in that perfect position, so I adjust and I think I'll stick with it.

great thread.

G.

 

[MOJOE]

I really appreciate Gene's sharing of advice on the forum.. I have not yet received the video and already have made drastic improvements in my game just from picking info on the various threads on AZ.. I read this thread last night just before heading out to play and all I can say is WOW!

Even though a simple concept, I used it was quite impressed. Of course, it works on all shots, not just the breaks. I found that hitting the straight in long shots became simple and I was stopping my rock dead on whenever I wanted to.

Thanks Gene for your contributions to the forum. My game is forever thankful, I'll be giving you a call tonight once I get home and on the table. You have shown tons of heart proven to be a valuable contributor as well.

Joe

 

[pooljunkie4ever]

This is indeed is great information. I have just started breaking like you mentioned above. Thing is I found this out on my own after breaking like 2 hours straight. I noticed that my cue ball was always scratching in the side pocket, opposite where I break. Didn't matter what side I broke from I would scratch. My adjustment was I would hit the edge of the front ball, you will know if you go to far becuase it will hit the break side bottom rail.
My question to you Geno, in my break, i leave marks on the table after my break, it's not straight, it swings to my left. I am trying to find out what causes this. Is there any advice you can give me.

 

[ShootingArts]

careful here

This is indeed is great information. I have just started breaking like you mentioned above. Thing is I found this out on my own after breaking like 2 hours straight. I noticed that my cue ball was always scratching in the side pocket, opposite where I break. Didn't matter what side I broke from I would scratch. My adjustment was I would hit the edge of the front ball, you will know if you go to far becuase it will hit the break side bottom rail.
My question to you Geno, in my break, i leave marks on the table after my break, it's not straight, it swings to my left. I am trying to find out what causes this. Is there any advice you can give me.

Not Geno here obviously but don't jump to any conclusions if the curve is out beyond your normal stroke length. Your stance and body type often force a curve into a very long follow through. This may not indicate a problem. Curves only matter if they start before you hit the cue ball. All of us with a manly physique have to curve the stroke at the end of a very long follow through.

Hu

 

[pooljunkie4ever]

Not Geno here obviously but don't jump to any conclusions if the curve is out beyond your normal stroke length. Your stance and body type often force a curve into a very long follow through. This may not indicate a problem. Curves only matter if they start before you hit the cue ball. All of us with a manly physique have to curve the stroke at the end of a very long follow through.

Hu

Thanks for the input.
This is what I have tried to correct the problem. I have shorten my bridge hand to the cue ball. I am about one diamond away. I have also placed my grip hand closer. I have noticed that if you have a big pause like Geno has suggested, I will get a decent break, even with a shorter stroke.
I asked about the curve swing becuase my cue ball will have english. I don't know if i am misaligned or if its coming from the curve stroke. I am thinking this affects my power game or whenever I jack up. More than likely this will help my game if I can find the source. Thanks.

 

[ShootingArts]

video or someone watching

Thanks for the input.
This is what I have tried to correct the problem. I have shorten my bridge hand to the cue ball. I am about one diamond away. I have also placed my grip hand closer. I have noticed that if you have a big pause like Geno has suggested, I will get a decent break, even with a shorter stroke.
I asked about the curve swing becuase my cue ball will have english. I don't know if i am misaligned or if its coming from the curve stroke. I am thinking this affects my power game or whenever I jack up. More than likely this will help my game if I can find the source. Thanks.

That is often the issue, a problem can come from several sources. Sometimes someone watching can see the issue, almost always you can see it yourself on video if it is a stroke problem. As a general statement, most people seem to use a longer bridge than they need to, sometimes a longer bridge than they can actually handle. The pro's spend many hours on their game and often use a long bridge. We copy the long bridge but often don't put in the hours needed. Simple mechanics, the further the tip is away from the bridge when it hits the cue ball the greater the effect of any stroke or grip errors since they are in the back hand. choking up the back hand and/or shortening the bridge reduces the error but isn't the ultimate solution unless a very long bridge is leading to lack of control.

I mark a piece of cardboard or something I can put a straight line on and practice my stroke and follow through. Is the tip centered on a normal length follow through at all normal speeds? If so, you probably don't have a stroke issue or it is a minor one on the break that is easily corrected. If your stroke is often crooked resulting in the line not bisecting the tip when you stop your cue then you have a stroke issue. Do this with your eyes closed on the final stroke if you find yourself steering the cue.

You can find this in my upcoming book, "Po' Boy Cures for Common Ailments"(JK!)

Hu

 

[randyg]

Take up poker.

What hand should I hold my cards in? SPF=randyg

 

[dr_dave]

dominant eye resources

eye dominance isn't what makes the image clear. Eye dominance is a preference for one eye's image when a single image is needed, for instance in precision viewing such as aligning things for aiming. And it's pretty generally accepted by the experts that a certain number of people don't have a dominant eye.

These experts need to do some more research. I'd like to know who these so called experts are. I don't trust anything that someone just says.

Gene,

FYI, I have lots of info and quotes concerning dominant eye here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#dominant​

One of the quotes is from "henho." He let's you know where to find info on this topic from people who have researched it thoroughly. Here's the quote:

... there is plenty of research on eye dominance in Medline or Pubmed, a couple of thousand articles to be exact....just one for example: A new interocular suppression technique for measuring sensory eye dominance.
Yang E, Blake R, McDonald JE.Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci. 2009 Jul 23. PMID: 19628736

Each eye supplies information to the brain differently. The dominant eye is used to fixate on objects. If you look at a point, the fixation of the dominant eye will fall on the center of the point while the non-dominant eye will fall slightly off-center. By comparing the difference between the images supplied by each eye the brain is able calculate depth information in a scene. The degree to which any eye is dominant varies from person to person as well.

In scenarios where estimating depth is important, the functioning of both eyes in tandem is vital. I don't recommend skiing with an eyepatch any more than driving. However, in scenarios where determining a straight line between two points is needed, using the dominant eye confers an advantage over using both eyes. When shooting a gun, you want to align the sight of the gun with a target. If you kept both eyes open while sighting down the barrel of the gun, when you looked at the sight you would see two targets, and when you focused on the target you would see two sights. In this scenario, the depth information your brain is supplying you is not helpful in aligning the target and sight, and it is easier to sight with one eye.

Pool is an interesting scenario in that it requires good depth perception to estimate the line of sight, generally done while standing up, and in addition requires accurately lining up the cue ball with the contact point on the object ball. If you adopt a high stance and hold the cue under both eyes, you have the best depth judgment, which is needed to estimate the speed and direction of the hit. If you adopt a low stance and use your dominant eye, you have the best ability to line up the cueball and object ball. Most people go somewhere in between, where they can line up the balls while still having a general view of the table to guide the speed of their stroke.

This seems to come into play in the nature of various cue games. In three-cushion billiards players generally adopt a more erect stance that provides a good, continuous 3-d view of the table, allowing them to accurately predict the reaction of the balls. In snooker, the accuracy requirement that smaller balls present requires players to adopt a low stance sighting down the cue. In this game moreso than in billiards, players must first estimate what will happen on the shot and determine the line of sight, then remember the layout of the table when they are down on the shot since they don't have a good view of the balls.

Regards,
Dave

PS: Gene, it is good to see you posting some of your opinions and ideas. I hope you will get involved in more discussions. I think you have a lot to contribute.

 

[Spimp13]

For the last year I went back to what feels right, BUT I have to make mental adjustments for every shot. When I get behind the shot it looks good but, when I get down on the shot I over cut balls to the right, and under cut to the left....I"m a lefty btw. Also when I'm more upright on all shots the exact opposite is true...weird, but VERY consistent.


G.

I was doing MD3 for PEP last night and decided to mix the location of where I was aiming on the cue ball while shooting the same shot on the long rail cuts. No problem with the left cuts. For some reason I had trouble on the right cuts when trying to hit low on the cue ball. I lined up the shot and it looked good, but when it came time to strike I knew I was going to miss it before I shot it. No problems with a little bit of top, or even center ball on the cuts, just low....very weird as in I knew I was going to miss it every time before I shot it. I would even stop, get up, do the same pre shot routine, and my eyes still told me I was going to miss it when I was aiming low on the cue ball on these cuts. Must be a mental thing I hope .

 

[whitewolf]

Here is my advice.

Fire the cueball up the table with no other balls on the table, going 5/6/7 rails - as hard as you can. When you find the right alignment the cueball will go straight up and straight back.

I am right eye dominant and have a habit of aiming to the right of center, which really threw my breaking accuracy down.

So I moved the cue directly under my chin and now I can break much much much better.

My point is that you therorize all day long, but until you can do my drill you will never find the right alignment.