I agree with both premises.
And as a footnote to the $ match vs SVB, I think the bigger the bet, the wider the outcome.
*Player of the decade*
- Thread starter eezbank
- Start date
I agree with both premises.
And as a footnote to the $ match vs SVB, I think the bigger the bet, the wider the outcome.
To have such an impact as to dominate yet raise the overall skill level of your sport
RD3P:
A very intriguing post and choice! I would have to agree with you, but I'm not sure of the rules governing Player of the Decade. Since men's and women's pool seems to still be somewhat segregated at the moment, perhaps there should be two entries -- one for men, one for women?
Indeed, for women's pool, no player has dominated -- and yet at the same time, raised the overall skill level of her competitors -- than Allison Fisher. She definitely dominated, raised the bar, and at the same time raised the skill level of her competition to meet it. That's doing a lot for a sport, that's for sure!
Great choice!
-Sean
RD3P:
A very intriguing post and choice! I would have to agree with you, but I'm not sure of the rules governing Player of the Decade. Since men's and women's pool seems to still be somewhat segregated at the moment, perhaps there should be two entries -- one for men, one for women?
Indeed, for women's pool, no player has dominated -- and yet at the same time, raised the overall skill level of her competitors -- than Allison Fisher. She definitely dominated, raised the bar, and at the same time raised the skill level of her competition to meet it. That's doing a lot for a sport, that's for sure!
Great choice!
-Sean
Consistency, lol
Haha, everone here who has been touting Ralf for the POTD award, has been mentioning the great consistency he has. Mika and Efren has won big time, but they haven't been as consistent.
Let's get few facts straight:
Sure, Ralf has lot's of high finishes, few silvers and wins, but if you compare the yearly earnings, Ralf is actually least consistent of those three. Efren has last two years lesser (actually this years 30 000$ from the WCOP is missing, and that would raise him into 53K, which would raise him into Top 6).
Efren is old, and doesn't travel much anymore, so he doesn't have nearly the same starts Mika or especially Ralf has. But still, only the year 2008 for him is poor and altogether he has won more money than Mika and Ralf combined, during this decade.
Mika's poorest year is better than Efren's or Ralf's poorest, and his highest is better than Ralf's highest, as is his average also. (Mika has won this year more than 230K, the WTBC and Mosconi haven't been put there yet, for example).
So, surprise surprise, Ralf is not even the most consistent of those three. He's the least. LOL!
Look at his years 2003-2005, how prestigious or consistent are those!?
Let's get this straight for once and for all:
Most Majors (win 40K or more): 1.Mika, 2.Efren, 3.Ralf.
Most Money earned: 1.Efren, 2.Mika, 3.Ralf
Most consistent: 1.Efren, 2. Mika, 3. Ralf *
*There are various ways of counting who is the most consistent, but any rational way how you count it, Ralf is the last of those three. If you compare them only with each other, or if you compare them with the rest of the field also. If you take the worst and the best year out, or whatever, Ralf is still the least consistent. (Thanks AZ for making it possible of straightening the facts.
)
And please don't give me this Bullschaise that Ralf has won in Euro Tours, as the last ET's has been listed (and actually the money should be less than it's put in AZ, as the money in ET is reduced now
), and Ralf didn't win a single Euro Tour between early 2003 and late 2008. That's more than five and half years without a win.
So what is this consistency theory, and please someone explain to me now that what would be the reason to choose Ralf, if Efren and Mika outshine him in all the three most (and only) important cathegories.
He has travelled the most?
He has the most high finishes? (I'm not even sure if that's true)
He's the nicest?
Sorry, but not enough IMHO.
Haha, everone here who has been touting Ralf for the POTD award, has been mentioning the great consistency he has. Mika and Efren has won big time, but they haven't been as consistent.
Let's get few facts straight:
Sure, Ralf has lot's of high finishes, few silvers and wins, but if you compare the yearly earnings, Ralf is actually least consistent of those three. Efren has last two years lesser (actually this years 30 000$ from the WCOP is missing, and that would raise him into 53K, which would raise him into Top 6).
Efren is old, and doesn't travel much anymore, so he doesn't have nearly the same starts Mika or especially Ralf has. But still, only the year 2008 for him is poor and altogether he has won more money than Mika and Ralf combined, during this decade.
Mika's poorest year is better than Efren's or Ralf's poorest, and his highest is better than Ralf's highest, as is his average also. (Mika has won this year more than 230K, the WTBC and Mosconi haven't been put there yet, for example).
So, surprise surprise, Ralf is not even the most consistent of those three. He's the least. LOL!
Look at his years 2003-2005, how prestigious or consistent are those!?
Let's get this straight for once and for all:
Most Majors (win 40K or more): 1.Mika, 2.Efren, 3.Ralf.
Most Money earned: 1.Efren, 2.Mika, 3.Ralf
Most consistent: 1.Efren, 2. Mika, 3. Ralf *
*There are various ways of counting who is the most consistent, but any rational way how you count it, Ralf is the last of those three. If you compare them only with each other, or if you compare them with the rest of the field also. If you take the worst and the best year out, or whatever, Ralf is still the least consistent. (Thanks AZ for making it possible of straightening the facts.
)And please don't give me this Bullschaise that Ralf has won in Euro Tours, as the last ET's has been listed (and actually the money should be less than it's put in AZ, as the money in ET is reduced now
), and Ralf didn't win a single Euro Tour between early 2003 and late 2008. That's more than five and half years without a win.So what is this consistency theory, and please someone explain to me now that what would be the reason to choose Ralf, if Efren and Mika outshine him in all the three most (and only) important cathegories.
He has travelled the most?
He has the most high finishes? (I'm not even sure if that's true)
He's the nicest?
Sorry, but not enough IMHO.
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If they gambled, Mika would fry him with clearer margin as he has fried him in the Major finals.
Mika has more gamble in him, than Ralf. Why in the earth would he then lose to Ralf in a long money match? Huhhuh.
Have you ever thought why Ralf isn't gambling?
RD3P
Banned
oh....this is an actual award that people really vote on...like baseballs MVP or Cy young????? or are they just debating the question on this board??
because he makes more than any other player through sponsors and travelling the globe racking up tourney titles?
More than any other?
Much less than Efren or Mika at least. What it comes to tournament wins, but also to sponsors.
Some more 'facts' please?
More than any other?
Much less than Efren or Mika at least. What it comes to tournament wins, but also to sponsors.
Some more 'facts' please?
I was being facetious. The point I was making is that he doesn't have to gamble.
Do you think that Mika could beat Shane in a race to 100 10-ball? I mean, surely since he's won so many majors and had so many high money finishes he could beat Shane who only has the 1 US Open title and only a few other big tourneys.
This poll is merely for discussion
RD3P:
If I remember correctly, this was a poll started by an AZB'er -- for what purpose only the OP knows. Perhaps to get a feel for what AZB land feels?
The results here, stay here. I'm sure they have no influence over the actual voting, which takes place on the Billiards Digest website, I believe.
In the big scheme of things, the effort put forth here is for naught. It won't affect the final outcome, unless some AZBers vote on the Billiards Digest poll and are then swayed by what they see here. And to be honest, I'm not sure if the Billiards Digest poll is how Billiards Digest determines the Player of the Decade, or if it's merely a "temperature reading" to see who the short-list of candidates should be, and then determine amongst themselves. I honestly don't know.
In a word, the results of this poll mean "diddly." And actually, now that I think about it, I invested *FAR TOO MUCH* time in it. On to other more important things...
-Sean
RD3P:
If I remember correctly, this was a poll started by an AZB'er -- for what purpose only the OP knows. Perhaps to get a feel for what AZB land feels?
The results here, stay here. I'm sure they have no influence over the actual voting, which takes place on the Billiards Digest website, I believe.
In the big scheme of things, the effort put forth here is for naught. It won't affect the final outcome, unless some AZBers vote on the Billiards Digest poll and are then swayed by what they see here. And to be honest, I'm not sure if the Billiards Digest poll is how Billiards Digest determines the Player of the Decade, or if it's merely a "temperature reading" to see who the short-list of candidates should be, and then determine amongst themselves. I honestly don't know.
In a word, the results of this poll mean "diddly." And actually, now that I think about it, I invested *FAR TOO MUCH* time in it. On to other more important things...
-Sean
If it goes down then would you care to bet on it? You can bet as much as they are playing for in the middle.
Lol, consistency, lol
Hehe, earlier I stated this:
Now I counted (yes, I admit, I'm getting involved into this) three different ways, checking the AZ money list, who has been the most consistent.
1. I just made them compete with each other. Let's say if Efren is higher than Mika who is higher than Ralf, then Efren will get 1, Mika 2, and Ralf 3 points. Who ever gets least points during 00-09, is the most consistent.
Results: Efren 14 points, Mika 20 points, Ralf 25 points. Chaching! We had a winner.
2. Not that I was suspicious, but I wanted to check couple other ways of counting also (I was actually sure my original hunch was correct, but let's play some more, it's fun to be right
I counted the overall results from every year. If you're number 1, you'll get 1 point. If you'll number 8, you'll get 8 points. If you'll outside the Top 30, you'll get 35 points. Understood?
Results: Efren 61 points, Mika 63 points, Ralf 101 points (lol)
Then, because I really liked it, and I wanted to play more, I took third way of counting it:
3. Otherwise same as #2, but the best and the worst result of individual was excluded.
Results: Efren 25 points (!), Mika 50 points, Ralf 65 points.
So anyway to count, the results were the same. Ralf is not outclassing the other two even in the consistency cathegory. Neither in anyother significant matter.
If someone is having a better way to count the consistency, be my guest.
So! Ladies and gentleman. Who is the Player of the decade in the end?
The one who has won most Majors, the one who has won most money, or the won who has been most consistent?
Ralf will be #3 in this competition anyway
I'm starting to rest my case. If someone writes something intelligent enough, or stupid enough, I may jump in still (I left the options quite wide, lol)
Hehe, earlier I stated this:
Now I counted (yes, I admit, I'm getting involved into this
) three different ways, checking the AZ money list, who has been the most consistent.1. I just made them compete with each other. Let's say if Efren is higher than Mika who is higher than Ralf, then Efren will get 1, Mika 2, and Ralf 3 points. Who ever gets least points during 00-09, is the most consistent.
Results: Efren 14 points, Mika 20 points, Ralf 25 points. Chaching! We had a winner.
2. Not that I was suspicious, but I wanted to check couple other ways of counting also (I was actually sure my original hunch was correct, but let's play some more, it's fun to be right
I counted the overall results from every year. If you're number 1, you'll get 1 point. If you'll number 8, you'll get 8 points. If you'll outside the Top 30, you'll get 35 points. Understood?
Results: Efren 61 points, Mika 63 points, Ralf 101 points (lol)
Then, because I really liked it, and I wanted to play more, I took third way of counting it:
3. Otherwise same as #2, but the best and the worst result of individual was excluded.
Results: Efren 25 points (!), Mika 50 points, Ralf 65 points.
So anyway to count, the results were the same. Ralf is not outclassing the other two even in the consistency cathegory. Neither in anyother significant matter.
If someone is having a better way to count the consistency, be my guest.
So! Ladies and gentleman. Who is the Player of the decade in the end?
The one who has won most Majors, the one who has won most money, or the won who has been most consistent?
Ralf will be #3 in this competition anyway
I'm starting to rest my case. If someone writes something intelligent enough, or stupid enough, I may jump in still (I left the options quite wide, lol)
I was expecting this. The problem is that I don't gamble. Which explains one of the reasons why I respect Ralf Souquet so high
Perceived "value" of the results of this INFORMAL poll
Marcus:
First, let me take Roy's unveiling of your "Marvel" moniker as an introduction and heartily welcome you to AZB -- it is a PLEASURE having a player such as yourself contributing to these boards!
Second, as I stated in my previous reply, I made my case, you and Nathan and others have made theirs, and I wasn't going to get into a point-by-point discourse or diatribe about "who's dog is 'better' than who's." I even closed by saying "let the best candidate win" or words to that effect. Personally, I think you're taking this INFORMAL poll *far* too seriously. It almost looks like you have an axe to grind, or some sales pitch to make for Mika, or something (whatever) to downplay Ralf so that your Mika will win. I don't know. But whatever it is, let me humbly remind you that you're wasting your time. Going back and forth with folks on this board that've already committed and submitted their votes is roughly analogous to shoveling sand against the waves. I've submitted my vote; you're not going to convince me that my choice is wrong (I'm not going to go back and change it -- and I can't really, anyway). And, if I get the opportunity to vote again in, say, a Billiards Digest poll, you bet I'll make the same vote I made here, even "in light" of your information.
I'm willing to bet that most viewers who are viewing this poll for the first time, will open it, read the list of choices, make his/her choice, submit it, and *then* go on reading the extensive reply posts to this thread, *if* he/she has time to do so (which many probably don't). When that's considered, isn't all this back-and-forth wasted effort on our parts -- and especially emotional ones like yours? For what, an informal poll whose results go nowhere??
That's why, in my previous post on this Mika-vs-Ralf topic, I stated my case, and then closed with "let's hope the best candidate wins." I'm not interested in going back-and-forth, because I'm fairly convinced my choice is the correct one *for me* and my views. I only shared my views to remind folks not to get caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" state of mind, which is all too fashionable in these days of real-time news and reality shows and "American/European Idol" and media hoopla.
I hope you understand. No disrespect intended. In fact, quite the contrary -- I welcome you to the boards. I see that you are quite a passionate and well-written person concerning your interesting views.
Looking forward to reading more of your posts -- but on a different topic/thread of course,
-Sean
Marcus:
First, let me take Roy's unveiling of your "Marvel" moniker as an introduction and heartily welcome you to AZB -- it is a PLEASURE having a player such as yourself contributing to these boards!
Second, as I stated in my previous reply, I made my case, you and Nathan and others have made theirs, and I wasn't going to get into a point-by-point discourse or diatribe about "who's dog is 'better' than who's." I even closed by saying "let the best candidate win" or words to that effect. Personally, I think you're taking this INFORMAL poll *far* too seriously. It almost looks like you have an axe to grind, or some sales pitch to make for Mika, or something (whatever) to downplay Ralf so that your Mika will win. I don't know. But whatever it is, let me humbly remind you that you're wasting your time. Going back and forth with folks on this board that've already committed and submitted their votes is roughly analogous to shoveling sand against the waves. I've submitted my vote; you're not going to convince me that my choice is wrong (I'm not going to go back and change it -- and I can't really, anyway). And, if I get the opportunity to vote again in, say, a Billiards Digest poll, you bet I'll make the same vote I made here, even "in light" of your information.
I'm willing to bet that most viewers who are viewing this poll for the first time, will open it, read the list of choices, make his/her choice, submit it, and *then* go on reading the extensive reply posts to this thread, *if* he/she has time to do so (which many probably don't). When that's considered, isn't all this back-and-forth wasted effort on our parts -- and especially emotional ones like yours? For what, an informal poll whose results go nowhere??
That's why, in my previous post on this Mika-vs-Ralf topic, I stated my case, and then closed with "let's hope the best candidate wins." I'm not interested in going back-and-forth, because I'm fairly convinced my choice is the correct one *for me* and my views. I only shared my views to remind folks not to get caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" state of mind, which is all too fashionable in these days of real-time news and reality shows and "American/European Idol" and media hoopla.
I hope you understand. No disrespect intended. In fact, quite the contrary -- I welcome you to the boards. I see that you are quite a passionate and well-written person concerning your interesting views.
Looking forward to reading more of your posts -- but on a different topic/thread of course,
-Sean
Haha, everone here who has been touting Ralf for the POTD award, has been mentioning the great consistency he has. Mika and Efren has won big time, but they haven't been as consistent.
Let's get few facts straight:
Sure, Ralf has lot's of high finishes, few silvers and wins, but if you compare the yearly earnings, Ralf is actually least consistent of those three. Efren has last two years lesser (actually this years 30 000$ from the WCOP is missing, and that would raise him into 53K, which would raise him into Top 6).
Efren is old, and doesn't travel much anymore, so he doesn't have nearly the same starts Mika or especially Ralf has. But still, only the year 2008 for him is poor and altogether he has won more money than Mika and Ralf combined, during this decade.
Mika's poorest year is better than Efren's or Ralf's poorest, and his highest is better than Ralf's highest, as is his average also. (Mika has won this year more than 230K, the WTBC and Mosconi haven't been put there yet, for example).
So, surprise surprise, Ralf is not even the most consistent of those three. He's the least. LOL!
Look at his years 2003-2005, how prestigious or consistent are those!?
Let's get this straight for once and for all:
Most Majors (win 40K or more): 1.Mika, 2.Efren, 3.Ralf.
Most Money earned: 1.Efren, 2.Mika, 3.Ralf
Most consistent: 1.Efren, 2. Mika, 3. Ralf *
*There are various ways of counting who is the most consistent, but any rational way how you count it, Ralf is the last of those three. If you compare them only with each other, or if you compare them with the rest of the field also. If you take the worst and the best year out, or whatever, Ralf is still the least consistent. (Thanks AZ for making it possible of straightening the facts.
And please don't give me this Bullschaise that Ralf has won in Euro Tours, as the last ET's has been listed (and actually the money should be less than it's put in AZ, as the money in ET is reduced now
So what is this consistency theory, and please someone explain to me now that what would be the reason to choose Ralf, if Efren and Mika outshine him in all the three most (and only) important cathegories.
He has travelled the most?
He has the most high finishes? (I'm not even sure if that's true)
He's the nicest?
Sorry, but not enough IMHO.
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Sean,
Thanks for your welcoming words.
I'm sorry if I haven't been able to use the smileys in a way they're needed. For example the answer for Roy was made in "tongue on a cheeck" attitude, and later when I realized there's no smileys, I just wished nobody would take it too 'seriously', I mean read it in a way that I'm being too serious.
I'm not. I'm not being too serious. I'm having a flu, staying the whole day at home, that's why I have some extra time to spend here, and I've been enjoying the conversation with probably bit more intense way than normally.
Again I apologize if I've been too obnoxious with my answers and comments, but I haven't tried to argue with anyone, and I've stated that anyway the result is very close between those three, but tried to straighten some 'facts'.
I mean, I have used smileys also. Haven't I? What made me appear so serious or emotional, I'm not sure, but I'll try to check it next time when I come here.
The intencity part is mostly because I have some spare time, and I realized people here are probably not aware of certain things. Like one writer said, first he started laughing when someone suggested Efren, then later when he read some reasonings, he realized that "yeah, he should be concidered..."
I have stated very clear facts also, and all of them back up my "mission", eventhough the further I went, the more I started to like Efren.
And if you got an idea that "I'm against Ralf", then I'll state once more, that Ralf is one of my heroes. Even more than Mika, like I said already in earlier posts. If Ralf reads this topic, hopefully he'll get the point also.
I have been touting for him in many other topics, it's just that in this one, I feel, and also the facts shows us, that there's two other players above him
I don't care of the voting results, not so much even the real, official results. Stating an opinion and having some 'arguments without crossing the lines', can be fun at times.
Peace,
-M
Agree to disagree.
The above is completely your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to.
I agree. There is no reason a good debate/argument can't take place between several people in a civil manner on here. It's when people don't repect others' opinions that all the flame wars start. Lots of good points made in this thread concerning each of the viewpoints.
As long as everyone recognizes that Ralf is the choice then all is ok. :grin:
exactly....lofl
Haha, everone here who has been touting Ralf for the POTD award, has been mentioning the great consistency he has. Mika and Efren has won big time, but they haven't been as consistent.
Let's get few facts straight:
Sure, Ralf has lot's of high finishes, few silvers and wins, but if you compare the yearly earnings, Ralf is actually least consistent of those three. Efren has last two years lesser (actually this years 30 000$ from the WCOP is missing, and that would raise him into 53K, which would raise him into Top 6).
Efren is old, and doesn't travel much anymore, so he doesn't have nearly the same starts Mika or especially Ralf has. But still, only the year 2008 for him is poor and altogether he has won more money than Mika and Ralf combined, during this decade.
Mika's poorest year is better than Efren's or Ralf's poorest, and his highest is better than Ralf's highest, as is his average also. (Mika has won this year more than 230K, the WTBC and Mosconi haven't been put there yet, for example).
So, surprise surprise, Ralf is not even the most consistent of those three. He's the least. LOL!
Look at his years 2003-2005, how prestigious or consistent are those!?
Let's get this straight for once and for all:
Most Majors (win 40K or more): 1.Mika, 2.Efren, 3.Ralf.
Most Money earned: 1.Efren, 2.Mika, 3.Ralf
Most consistent: 1.Efren, 2. Mika, 3. Ralf *
*There are various ways of counting who is the most consistent, but any rational way how you count it, Ralf is the last of those three. If you compare them only with each other, or if you compare them with the rest of the field also. If you take the worst and the best year out, or whatever, Ralf is still the least consistent. (Thanks AZ for making it possible of straightening the facts.
And please don't give me this Bullschaise that Ralf has won in Euro Tours, as the last ET's has been listed (and actually the money should be less than it's put in AZ, as the money in ET is reduced now
So what is this consistency theory, and please someone explain to me now that what would be the reason to choose Ralf, if Efren and Mika outshine him in all the three most (and only) important cathegories.
He has travelled the most?
He has the most high finishes? (I'm not even sure if that's true)
He's the nicest?
Sorry, but not enough IMHO.
There are about 80 (EIGHTY) tournaments in the period 2000-2009 where Ralf finished either 1, 2, 3 or 4th that are NOT listed on the AZBilliards Money Rank. (Did Mika or Efren even finish 1, 2, 3 or 4 in 80 tournaments during the same period?)
No, I am not counting European Championships, because there are no prize money there. But he still got medals there during those years, so you can probably add atleast 10 more top 4 finishes.
What about the events where he finished 5th, 7th, 9th etc?
Oh well, I am done.
It will be a GOOD player that I admire and respect who will win it anyway, and most important: It will not be one of the players that won the Mosconi Cup this year