This forum

I have never had a problem with folks who are active on the forums posting about their stuff for sale. This is a place for fans to discuss the game that we all love. If you are doing that and selling some stuff on the side, then that is perfectly fine. But if you are only here to peddle your wares, then that needs to stop.

Mike

This is a good question for Mike. Several AZ'ers that have a business are super supportive of AZ and super positive with their input in several matters. Does that rule apply to them as well?
 
This is what I am talking about. Someone who has posted over 8000 posts is definitely a benefit to the site. And I don't mind you posting ads for your cues.

Mike

Understood.....along with those 300+ iTraders are over 8000 posts. I hope I contribute something to the site other than that.
Joe
 
Who are you that you think it's nitty to want a fair fees that are commensurate with the price of the items? I think it's awfully nitty to tell someone who sells a $30 book that they have to pay the same amount as someone listing a $2000 cue.

You can see the listing fees on Ebay here http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html#auction

I can list an item for as low as 15cts and then the percentage fee is sliding based on the final value price.

You want nitty? IF AZ institutes fees similar to Ebay which I am 95% certain that they won't I can tell you that a lot more business will be done behind the scenes just like on Ebay.

I can understand why you are for a flat rate as it's obvious that you support a flat income tax. I support a flat income tax too. I support a sliding scale for listing.

I have often gone to tournaments and paid the room owner a little money just to set up and a percentage of sales. Sometimes just a flat fee, sometimes just a percentage of sales, and sometimes nothing.

The world is not black and white and your way isn't the only way. We agree that something should be paid so why are you arguing with me. You proposed your idea and I disagreed with it with pertinent examples. Your response; I am a nit.

Well man, Ebay makes billions with their nitty system. Not saying it will work for AZ but I try to emulate the leaders in the field when I want to be in that field.

On Ebay it would cost .15 to list and then $2.62 if the item sold for $30. A cue would cost .15 to list and $76.93 if it sold for $2000 if you did it true auction style. If you put a reserve or starting price over $500 then it's $4 to list with the same final value fees.

This was your first post in this thread agreeing a fee should be paid
to list something in For Sale/Wanted.

With that stated, you have lost your nit status.

A flat fee is simple, a sliding fee based on listing price could be
relatively simple, however when one crys over a $5.00 fee to sell
anything, that is the definition of a nit.

own it.
 
But some of these folks aren't even discussing anything. They are just posting their items and bumping them. It is a simple idea, if you are part of the community (and that means an active participant in the conversations), then I have no problem at all with posting items you have for sale.

If I was at a tourney eating dinner with a bunch of guys and one of them was Joe Salazar, it would be no different than him talking about the kinds of cues that he personally likes and his experiences as a dealer. Every once in a while he might chime in and say he has a nice cue available if someone wants to swing by his booth. I see nothing wrong with that sort of thing. It is the guy sitting in the corner who only speaks up to say "you guys like Predator? I have those for sale." and then "you guys like Bludworth? I have those for sale".

Mike

I agree with you,but I think az is going a little overboard.At the end of the day were all just talking about beautiful pieces of wood.If a cuemaker sells a cue he made that's promoting his business.If I sell a predator and say how great the cue is and it's the best hitting cue ever,than I'm promoting predators business.There's so many angles to look at it.I don't see a problem with promoting anything because if I don't want to read it I just don't click on it.There's players,buyers,sellers,moneymakers and moneytakers,we need them all to make this forum interesting and fun.Merry Chrismas to everybody.:smile:
 
I have been contacted a couple of times regarding deals gone bad. I contacted both parties and tried to help as much as I could. I certainly don't want someone being taken advantage of here on the forums in any way. I realize that it can happen, but usually the members handle things like that. Someone can get a bad name for that behavior in a hurry on here.

Mike

Hi Tim,
I don't think we should expect AZ Billiards to be involved in any buy, sell, or trade transactions. If AZ mandates something they become involved in a dispute. Especially considering the slighted party's perception is in most cases subjective. To mediate a deal gone south takes a lot of time and ultimately may find no resolution. AZ provides a good forum with a database to discern a persons reputation. It is up to the parties involved to realize an agreement that will protect and satisfy each. Know the seller.
Respectfully, Troy.
 
OK, I can guarantee you that this site is not even bringing in enough money to support me and my family. There is a reason that I have other sites that I am paid to run in the billiards world, as well as clients outside of the billiards world.

I have received offers multiple times from interested parties both in and out of the billiards industry. I could not really entertain the idea of selling the site to anyone who would not keep it the way it is now. The idea of someone outside of the pool world buying it and covering it with ads to squeeze every penny they can out of it would be horrible.

And the idea of someone else in the pool world running it doesn't sound much better to me.

Mike

These types of threads are always amusing.

I am not trying to attack but I just need to state this:

The yellow banner does not mean a thing. For all of you that have paid that, you might as well have considered it a donation. Just remember, tax season is around the corner.

The people that own these types of sites don't need the little costs of becoming a "member". A site this large is worth a whole lot more than what they are collecting in "member fees" to keep it going.

I know of a similar site of different interest that was sold within the last year. That sold for seven figures. It was unbelievable the money the three guys that created that were making.

The small amounts of money from the members fees is nothing compared to what the site is making.

Happy holidays.
 
Could you send me a PM with a link? Just for research.

Mike

I have not read all of the posts, but I think I get the idea. I'm on a camera forum also, and there is a flat rate that is paid once in order to post in the for sale section. If you are a business you pay more. I sell lenses every so often, much better percentage than cues. Anyway, they charge $10 to allow one to sell, which is a one time fee. They also have a limit on the amount of bumps one can do in a week and other rules. If you break the rules, they will send a warning and after that you get a short suspension. If anyone wants the rules, let me know.
 
Worth Looking Into.............

Could you send me a PM with a link? Just for research.

Mike

Mike,

FWIW, I also thought the concepts by PDX in reference to some of the rules on a camera forum had merit worth evaluating. Some form or version could very well apply to AZB..........

Have a great holiday season!

Will Prout
 
Couple of things....

FS posts definately could have a fee...

Also could an automated BUMP be incorporated.. like maybe after the posted ad, it get 4 bumps, one a week and on the 6th week it dissappears... then you have to repost... no manual bumping....

JV
 
I'm not a proponent of such severe limits on bump frequency. The current market has a lot of cues in the listing, and for an individual trying to sell something - someone who doesn't have any other brick or electronic store front - I found I had to make a concerted effort to keep my listing "up top in the eyes". That being said - I don't sell with much frequency, but I wouldn't have any problem paying a reasonable fee to do so. In some cases, I might be willing to pay a tad higher fee to do so with no, or very few, limits on how I handle my listing from a bump standpoint.
I appreciate the gist of the cited problem that's being addressed, and it's obviously credible. But I do see a lot of potentially "knee jerk" reactivity in this thread suggesting rather extensive admin & rules involvement.
I'm happy to get the feeling that Mike isn't interested in re-inventing the wheel.
 
Buyers pay

FS posts definately could have a fee...
JV
And with the deals some of us sellers are giving to forum members these days it should be the buyer that pays them. :grin::grin:

I really do not feel the financial responcibility to support the forum should be put on those who sell.
We all benefit from the forum whether we sell, buy, trade or just post & read.
What we really need to do is up the number of Club Members in general.
I don't know if Mike has the option to make it a requirement in order to post or participate in the commerce section,
But we sure could get started by just taking it upon ourselves to join.
Please don't make this about keychains, drawings or bennies.
We all benefit from having AZB. Thanks Mike and A Happy New Year to all.:cool:
 
And with the deals some of us sellers are giving to forum members these days it should be the buyer that pays them. :grin::grin:

I really do not feel the financial responcibility to support the forum should be put on those who sell.
We all benefit from the forum whether we sell, buy, trade or just post & read.
What we really need to do is up the number of Club Members in general.
I don't know if Mike has the option to make it a requirement in order to post or participate in the commerce section,
But we sure could get started by just taking it upon ourselves to join.
Please don't make this about keychains, drawings or bennies.
We all benefit from having AZB. Thanks Mike and A Happy New Year to all.:cool:



And with the deals some of us sellers are giving to forum members these days it should be the buyer that pays them. :grin::grin:

Only one thing wrong with this statement, you forgot to say IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, because it is what it is!!!!!:wink:


I really do not feel the financial responcibility to support the forum should be put on those who sell.

I would disagree many members are selling nothing here so why should they be charged for the bandwidth. People selling here should not mine giving a percentage to the forum for the right to have so many viewers look at their item for sale, I suspect it is just as easy for a seller to build this cost into their profit margin. In my opinion everyone should pay unless they are already paying for an advertised slot on the site on the forum, then they they should pay nothing extra.

JIMHO
 
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Could you send me a PM with a link? Just for research.

Mike

Thanks for the site.

i'm a member of a few gun related sites and enjoy buying, selling and trading as i do here. A large, successfull site handles buy, sell trade as follows:

Only the OP can post in a B/S/T thread,

Intervals between posts must be greater than 72 hrs

All buyer/seller cummunication is done via email, pm, phone, etc. which minimizes false market creation or rep building (applicable to commerce) by cronies. It also eliminates flames caused by thread hi-jacking, price/quality/service knocking, etc. By in large the B/S/T experience is cerebral without the drama and/or shenanigans that arise here too often.

The site has "i-trader" (as we do), public buyer/seller feedback AND a public forum for posting the very rare "poor" transactions or scams.

Have a safe and HAPPY NEW YEAR, adam
 
And with the deals some of us sellers are giving to forum members these days it should be the buyer that pays them. :grin::grin:

Only one thing wrong with this statement, you forgot to say IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, because it is what it is!!!!!:wink:


I really do not feel the financial responcibility to support the forum should be put on those who sell.

I would disagree many members are selling nothing here so why should they be charged for the bandwidth. People selling here should not mine giving a percentage to the forum for the right to have so many viewers look at their item for sale, I suspect it is just as easy for a seller to build this cost into their profit margin. In my opinion everyone should pay unless they are already paying for an advertised slot on the site on the forum, then they they should pay nothing extra.

JIMHO
No Craig it would not be "in my humble opinion" but rather In my satirical Humor. That is what it was!!!!!!!! :wink:, but I guess you didn't pick up on that. Check the Double Grin

The For Sale section which includes posts from sellers, buyers, traders, as well just lookers still only amounts to about 1/4 of the total forum post count.
Why should sellers foot the bill for bandwidth?

Anyway, I think we get to the same place in the end.
Everyone should pony up their share to support the Forum.
They can do that simply by becoming a Club Member. It truely amazes me that the majority of those using the Forum are not members.
 
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But some of these folks aren't even discussing anything. They are just posting their items and bumping them. It is a simple idea, if you are part of the community (and that means an active participant in the conversations), then I have no problem at all with posting items you have for sale.

If I was at a tourney eating dinner with a bunch of guys and one of them was Joe Salazar, it would be no different than him talking about the kinds of cues that he personally likes and his experiences as a dealer. Every once in a while he might chime in and say he has a nice cue available if someone wants to swing by his booth. I see nothing wrong with that sort of thing. It is the guy sitting in the corner who only speaks up to say "you guys like Predator? I have those for sale." and then "you guys like Bludworth? I have those for sale".

Mike
Some of that is true,but just like sitting at a table full of 10 people their will be the more sociable people who do the talking and others who just listen and don't participate to much in the conversation.On this site some write more and others read more but their still apart of it because their on the site.You can't determine what angle some guys are on the site for.I can write a million posts,but knowing full well I'm still on here to sell and make money and the rest could be facade.I don't think this is a first wives club for men,I think its an open pool forum ,for some people to write ,and others to read.Either way we need each other or its just pointless to try and determine what somebodys intensions are behind their computer.Take care
 
A buyers perspective

Aside form spending way to much money on cues, the for sale section works for me. It is a good way to see what's out there; be it from a one time seller or a guy that makes a living (if you can call it that) selling cues.
Bill
 
I was going to stay out of this conversation and just see how it pans out, but the more I read it, the more it becomes necessary for "those" sellers to really pay attention to what is being said.

And yes, I am including myself when I say "those" sellers.

I am now a club member, and encourage everyone (but particularly sellers) to join as well. This forum and its members are without a doubt, the finest billiard community on the net.

Being here is a priviledge, not a right. I will gladly follow any rules that are established. That being said, I will offer my 2 cents.

I do not believe that a listing fee or final value fee is appropriate in an open community. It opens to many questions and reasons for the nits to complain. What may be more appropriate is to classify sellers based on their business model. I.E. Cue Makers, E-tailers, traders, e-bayers, etc....,
and make different club membership levels available with different prices, posting limits, and benefits.

Members web pages could be listed (for a fee) on a new page in the links section. Just like a newspaper classified, the better the placement and larger the size, the higher the fee.

I know there is a software bundle from ebay that allows you to automatically share your ebay auction on communities like facebook and myspace. Have a separate page of AZ member auctions. The software automatically sorts, adds, deletes, and bumps auctions. This service should be for a fee, but should require minimal maintanence, and will reduce the number of links to e-bay from the WFS section.

As far a contributing to the conversations on other parts of the forum, please remember that it is better to remain silent and be thought the fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Happy Holidays to all.
 
Below is a recent post that describes everything you are talking about. I don't think it is right. If you are truly a contributor and want to support this forum. This would't happen. This is nothing but free advertizing & greed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



For Sale : Haley & Webb - 12-24-2009, 03:01 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the Links:

Haley


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...STRK:MESELX:IT


Webb

http://cgi.ebay.com/MIKE-WEBB-Custom...item3a5616ba07


Will offer a 24 hour Money Back guarantee for AZers
Less shippng
Please call with any Questions
781-760-6858
Or Email
applehead_138@yahoo.com
Thanks
Tank
 
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