How many of the great one pocket players could have equaled or bettered Gabe's run in the DCC One Pocket Challenge? And this was done by a current player that is not known as aggressive offensive.
Scott Frost vs The So Called One Pocket Greats
- Thread starter watchez
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How many of the great one pocket players could have equaled or bettered Gabe's run in the DCC One Pocket Challenge? And this was done by a current player that is not known as aggressive offensive.
Ronnie Allen Said.........
I had the pleasure of watching Scott Frost and Ronnie Allen gamble on the TV table at the Derby City Classic several years back. I don't remember the exact spot but I think it something like 11-6. I had watched Scott play alot in the past but this was my first look at Ronnie. Scott played very solidly and Ronnie was very impressive as well. At one point Ronnie said "I wish I could have played you thirty years ago, Jack Frost" and Scott replied "Me too, Ronnie, me too".
Ronnie's backers eventually pulled up and were mouthing about what a "dog" Ronnie was. Scott immediately came to Ronnie's defense and was highly complementary of how wonderfully Ronnie had played and that his backers were completely wrong to bad-mouth him. In a scene straight out of The Hustler, Ronnie said "It was a pleasure playing with you Jack Frost. You're one hell of a pool player". Scott thanked Ronnie and said what a treat it had been to play him as well.
Afterward someone asked Ronnie how he would have stacked up to Efren when he (Ronnie) was in his prime. Ronnie said "I think I would have needed about two balls and still probably couldn't win". In my amateur opinion that description sounds pretty close to the way Scott and Efren stacked up then. So it sounds like to me that Ronnie thinks he and "Jack Frost" would have been a pretty even match in Ronnie's prime.
I had the pleasure of watching Scott Frost and Ronnie Allen gamble on the TV table at the Derby City Classic several years back. I don't remember the exact spot but I think it something like 11-6. I had watched Scott play alot in the past but this was my first look at Ronnie. Scott played very solidly and Ronnie was very impressive as well. At one point Ronnie said "I wish I could have played you thirty years ago, Jack Frost" and Scott replied "Me too, Ronnie, me too".
Ronnie's backers eventually pulled up and were mouthing about what a "dog" Ronnie was. Scott immediately came to Ronnie's defense and was highly complementary of how wonderfully Ronnie had played and that his backers were completely wrong to bad-mouth him. In a scene straight out of The Hustler, Ronnie said "It was a pleasure playing with you Jack Frost. You're one hell of a pool player". Scott thanked Ronnie and said what a treat it had been to play him as well.
Afterward someone asked Ronnie how he would have stacked up to Efren when he (Ronnie) was in his prime. Ronnie said "I think I would have needed about two balls and still probably couldn't win". In my amateur opinion that description sounds pretty close to the way Scott and Efren stacked up then. So it sounds like to me that Ronnie thinks he and "Jack Frost" would have been a pretty even match in Ronnie's prime.
No because 25-30 years from now we hill have video of efren playing great. I havent seen a video of players from years ago that is impressive like that.
I agree with most of what you say, but amongst all the falderal about the ancients vs the modern day players, there has been one topic that has gone unmentioned: how loose the vast majority of tables were "back in the day."
I think a lot of guys back then looked good just because they knew the 1pocket moves that were generally unknown by the majority of the pool hall populace, and the tables were Hoovers. (Nowadays, thanks to Accu-Stats, *everyone* knows the moves. I've heard Ronnie Allen say, "I see 17 year old kids shooting shots now that took me 10 years to learn.") Against today’s hyper-accurate players, I think many of the older generation's players would be toast. The old-timers I’ve spoken to have all pretty much said the same thing: most of the rooms had tables with buckets for pockets. This was especially true at the popular Brunswick bowling/pool hall set ups.
Certainly, that’s not to say that there weren’t some tough tables out there. But that was the exception and very far from the rule. Speaking just from my personal experience, I recall the tables at The Palace and Cochran’s, in San Francisco, as having outrageously loose pockets, with a very shallow slate shelf. Even the 5x10s. If you got it close to the pocket, it was going.
In modern times there’s been the advent of double and triple-shimmed pockets. And now we have the Diamond’s, which are some tough nuts to crack. I think nowadays we have come to expect a 1pocket table to be setup tougher. But in the previous era the equipment the game was played on was frequently loose.
Soooo…. I guess what I’m saying is: *some* of the old guys would have zero chance on today’s tougher equipment. The modern day player has to cope with much tighter equipment, particularly for 1pocket. And, modern day players have adjusted and made a much higher level of accuracy the standard. I think that should be a factor in all these discussions: Efren's doing it on much tougher tables, against fields the equal of, or greater than, all the old fields put together. Just today's Filipino contingent alone could have gone into the Chicago or LA of 40 or 50 years ago and made it look like the St Valentine's Day Massacre, over lumpia and pancit
Lou Figueroa
Yes the fields are so much tougher that it's a joke. Earl strickland a few months ago at a tournament told me how we should play on 5 by 10 tables now. While he was shooting this sort of hard shot down the rail with draw he said "everybody makes this shot now, years ago only a few of us did"
Mostly 9ball. I've played maybe 6 or 7 games of straight pool in my life.
I would say none of them could. If they couldn't do it on slop buckets how could they do it on diamonds.
I'll rob your ass at poker nit!
Shannon Daulton Called Out by Scott Frost
Several years ago (they all run together for me), I witnessed a hilarious turn of events late one night in the main tournament room at the Derby City Classic. Shannon Daulton was having a wonderful tournament and was in the running for the all-around. The one pocket was either nearing the end or had just concluded. Shannon had won a big match a couple of hours earlier and was all smiles. He was milling around in the tournament room around midnight or so and starts loudly saying, apparently to someone that was with him, "Well lets just see if anyone wants to play some a THOOOUUUUUUSAND a game. Maybe we can find somebody to play some a THOOOUUUUUUSAND a game. Anybody want to play some a THOOOOUUUUUSAND a game?"
There was a big group of people, probably thirty or more of them, standing around near by and Scott Frost was sitting down somewhere in the middle of them. You could have heard a pin drop when Scott stood up from the crowd and said with plenty of volume "I'll play some."
Shannon immediately started back peddling and looking at his watch explaining how late it was and how he had to be fresh in the morning because he was in the running for the all-around, etc, etc. The crowd wasn't going to let him off that easy and practically chased him down the hall with burning torches chiding him about boasting and then turning down the game when he got a taker.
Shannon had a reasonable point, but apparently he didn't think he was stealing or else he would have played regardless of how late it was.
Several years ago (they all run together for me), I witnessed a hilarious turn of events late one night in the main tournament room at the Derby City Classic. Shannon Daulton was having a wonderful tournament and was in the running for the all-around. The one pocket was either nearing the end or had just concluded. Shannon had won a big match a couple of hours earlier and was all smiles. He was milling around in the tournament room around midnight or so and starts loudly saying, apparently to someone that was with him, "Well lets just see if anyone wants to play some a THOOOUUUUUUSAND a game. Maybe we can find somebody to play some a THOOOUUUUUUSAND a game. Anybody want to play some a THOOOOUUUUUSAND a game?"
There was a big group of people, probably thirty or more of them, standing around near by and Scott Frost was sitting down somewhere in the middle of them. You could have heard a pin drop when Scott stood up from the crowd and said with plenty of volume "I'll play some."
Shannon immediately started back peddling and looking at his watch explaining how late it was and how he had to be fresh in the morning because he was in the running for the all-around, etc, etc. The crowd wasn't going to let him off that easy and practically chased him down the hall with burning torches chiding him about boasting and then turning down the game when he got a taker.
Shannon had a reasonable point, but apparently he didn't think he was stealing or else he would have played regardless of how late it was.
ill tellem
I saw it on a DVD--- took place YEARS ago.
The Crane run was in the final of the 1966 U.S. open vs Joe Balsis.
Ronnie always was a good hustler. :wink: He never bragged about his game, only downplayed it. One reason why he caught so many fish. I give up arguing about it though. You guys are right, none of the old timers could play a lick. Just because they were playing with super slow cloth and four and a half inch straight cut pockets meant nothing.
If everyone thinks they were all buckets they never looked at the pockets in the practice room of the tournaments. I did. I specifically asked Al Conte to make them play tough and he did. The tables in the back room at Johnston City and the Stardust were not buckets either. Perhaps there were five inch pockets in some poolrooms, but not the action rooms, like The Billiard Palace in Bellflower. Butch (the Owner) liked them to play tough too.
The biggest games were on 5x10 Snooker tables with little bitty pockets. If anyone had seen Denny Searcy play Pay Ball on that table, they would bite their tongue forever. He made shots down the rail that NO current champion could make. Not Earl, not anyone! Not even the great Donny Mills! :grin:
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This made me curious about comparing Crane's 1966 150-and-out to Sigel's 1992 150-and-out.
Crane pocketed 11 balls in the upper two corner pockets in his run, Sigel pocketed 12.
There is hardly any video of the greats playing in their primes at all. That is a large part of why we are here debating this.
Efren would most definately be getting the same disrespect 50 years down the road from the new generation of that era (the future versions of you) if it were not for video, and how much of that video will be easily found in 2050 is itself debatable. There will certainly be people saying he played no better then a shortstop compared to the 2050 people and that some 20th ranked player in 2050 would smoke him for the cash.
Of course, the game will have changed by 2050 - new rules, different cloth, different rails, different balls and different pockets. So these debates will continue indefinitely.
1966 I believe, and the table was a slow gold crown 1.
But buckets Donny? You don't know the half of it, the table actually had no pockets, it was simply a piece of slate with cloth, no rails or nothing, you simply had to knock the object ball off the table and it was consdered a pot, he would break the rack and simply call "corner ball, off the table" 6 other balls would fall off the table on the same shot, it was ridiculous.
I agree Chris, Billy has seen, played and gambled with the best of them and has seen more of Scott in high dollar action then anyone on here so I trust his word on this. San Jose rates Scott with Ed Kelly and Jersey Red tied for 3rd so Scott is one of the best one pocket players ever, nuff said. :smile:
So where does corey deuel rank he has beaten scott everytime i have ever heard of for big money and not to mention the times i have witnessed it..8 aheads and 5 aheads for the dough 5k or more both times...nuff said:smile:
I guess you do not know of the times Scott has beat Corey, I believe recently Scott beat Corey for some dough, if your talking about years ago then things have changed quite a bit. I am not going to take anything away from Corey as I feel he is a great player in all games but feel that Scott is a better one pocket player along with Gabe Owen.
You aren't taking into consideration that the 40 balls run were done on nap cloth. You probably have as well, but I've played nine ball and one pocket on tight nine foots with nap cloth and with simonis cloth. Simonis cloth is a great equalizer. Anyone with a little poke stroke runs out. So it makes sense that as equipment 'improves' so does the level of play.