Sounds like it and if you don't make cues with points you are not a cue maker either. No matter how good the cues you make shoot!
Larry
Cuemaker ethics - what do you really make?
- Thread starter 1pRoscoe
- Start date
Sounds like it and if you don't make cues with points you are not a cue maker either. No matter how good the cues you make shoot!
Larry
That's exactly why I think non-cue makers should keep their opinions to themselves when it comes to making cues.
Some people think they just know it all when in fact they know much less.
Some people think they just know it all when in fact they know much less.
So how far do you go with this line of thought?
Just because someone has a lathe and some wood does not make them a cue maker. Perhaps anyone not in the ACA should just not be allowed to comment on cue making.Or perhaps anyone who has not been building cues as a sole source of income for 20 years should not be able to comment either.
Those above statements are both as ridiculous as yours.
I have worked in machine shops and industrial settings for most of my adult life. Been surrounded by and engulfed in process control, QC, ISO this, TQM that. Produced parts and assemblies with tolerances that nothing in the cue world even comes close to. I have owned over 300 cues in my life, visited some of the greatest living masters shops and talked to them about the craft of cue making. But according to you since I have never put a cue together with my own hands I have no worthwhile input on cue making ? I know people with twenty times the experiences I have and by your definition they have nothing to offer either.
Now if I go buy some Hightower videos and fire five or ten dimes at Sears, Harbor Freight and Atlas then I would be qualified in your opinion to talk about cue making ? That makes plenty of sense.
I think you are taking your hobby a little too serious. Like one of my favorite cue makers says "It's frigging cue making, it's not brain surgery."
You're right, and I'm wrong. I am such an idiot. Have a nice day.
So how far do you go with this line of thought?
Just because someone has a lathe and some wood does not make them a cue maker. Perhaps anyone not in the ACA should just not be allowed to comment on cue making.Or perhaps anyone who has not been building cues as a sole source of income for 20 years should not be able to comment either.
Those above statements are both as ridiculous as yours.
I have worked in machine shops and industrial settings for most of my adult life. Been surrounded by and engulfed in process control, QC, ISO this, TQM that. Produced parts and assemblies with tolerances that nothing in the cue world even comes close to. I have owned over 300 cues in my life, visited some of the greatest living masters shops and talked to them about the craft of cue making. But according to you since I have never put a cue together with my own hands I have no worthwhile input on cue making ? I know people with twenty times the experiences I have and by your definition they have nothing to offer either.
Now if I go buy some Hightower videos and fire five or ten dimes at Sears, Harbor Freight and Atlas then I would be qualified in your opinion to talk about cue making ? That makes plenty of sense.
I think you are taking your hobby a little too serious. Like one of my favorite cue makers says "It's frigging cue making, it's not brain surgery."
When John Davis was first getting back into the cue making business, I encouraged him to sell his blanks to others. I told him I thought there would be a market for his blanks much larger than for his custom cues (because he was actually new to complete cue making at the time).
The techniques John uses are very difficult to execute perfectly, because he is using a true splice joint to couple the forearm to the handle (no internal screws or parts). I was one of the first people to get a batch of examples, before he sold them, and he made me promise not to sell or use them..
He thought it over for quite some time, at least a month or two, and reluctantly decided to sell blanks.
I said "John, why don't you want to just sell your blanks, what's the problem? ". He said "because of the blood, sweat, and tears I went through to perfect them. I'm doing the hard work".
Full splice forearm making is messy business, lots of dust, lots of sweat, lots' of thrown away wood. Joel Hercek probably throws away as many forearms as he makes.
A 'master ' cue maker defintely should be making his own forearms, in my opinion, even if they're CNC. I consider it an expression of their cue making signature as well. For the low cost guys and middle guys, go ahead and buy them, but let's not pretend we're making them ourselves if asked.
Chris
Ps. I was kind of surprised how much stuff is "outsourced" in the cue making business. No wonder cues are so expensive.
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If you don t ask exactly what you want- don t be angry about what you get (as long it is the quality you expected!).
And anyway....if i am going to buy something- no matter what-cues or a car or what ever, i try to get important informations about it to be sure what i could get for my money. It s not the fault of a cuemaker that someone thinks a cuemaker would create/manufactures 100 % of all materials he s using to build *your* cue. Using other blanks, rings etc etc etc is absolutley normal! -
And in the case that a cuemaker would tell me that he is building all on his own (blanks etc. ) and i would get an information that it isn t the truth i would know what i have to do! This would be a totally different situation and everyone would understand because i would be angry. As long he tells me the truth and answered me all my questions all is good.
It s just sad what kind of aggressive postings were written now. Usualy here were some nice and useful informations for some people who perhaps haven t known about some things- but now it s just getting like the typical *i-net catching*.
If i don t ask- or even don t get informations before i m going to buy something- 100 % my fault-nothin else!
make peace-not war :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
Ingo
And anyway....if i am going to buy something- no matter what-cues or a car or what ever, i try to get important informations about it to be sure what i could get for my money. It s not the fault of a cuemaker that someone thinks a cuemaker would create/manufactures 100 % of all materials he s using to build *your* cue. Using other blanks, rings etc etc etc is absolutley normal! -
And in the case that a cuemaker would tell me that he is building all on his own (blanks etc. ) and i would get an information that it isn t the truth i would know what i have to do! This would be a totally different situation and everyone would understand because i would be angry. As long he tells me the truth and answered me all my questions all is good.
It s just sad what kind of aggressive postings were written now. Usualy here were some nice and useful informations for some people who perhaps haven t known about some things- but now it s just getting like the typical *i-net catching*.
If i don t ask- or even don t get informations before i m going to buy something- 100 % my fault-nothin else!
make peace-not war :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
Ingo
I don't know if I am clearing up my last post or adding to the confusion!
After reading Tate's post I realized my last post might be confusing. Background information sent to me privately indicates that one of the reasons the work from someone not known for making points is suspicious is that they are very long points in a short splice. Creating long or short points in a short splice is almost equally easy, finishing long points in a short splice is slightly harder.
A fore arm made separately is known as a short splice and short or long points on a short splice blank are equally easy to cut with the right machinery and about the same difficulty to glue up. A full splice or long splice(two names for the same thing) such as John Davis makes is a totally different beast than a short splice or fore arm and far more difficult to execute properly.
All of us are a little loose with our language sometimes and it is easy to confuse long and short points with long and short splices. The post below refers to short and long points in short splices.
Although I don't think John has done all of the hard work making a cue when he makes a long splice I do agree that making nothing but long splices is all hard work without doing any of the less tedious work to break the grind. I usually set up my work flow to take a break here and there from the toughest work to turn out. No margin for error in any of it but some things are easier to do error free.
Hu
After reading Tate's post I realized my last post might be confusing. Background information sent to me privately indicates that one of the reasons the work from someone not known for making points is suspicious is that they are very long points in a short splice. Creating long or short points in a short splice is almost equally easy, finishing long points in a short splice is slightly harder.
A fore arm made separately is known as a short splice and short or long points on a short splice blank are equally easy to cut with the right machinery and about the same difficulty to glue up. A full splice or long splice(two names for the same thing) such as John Davis makes is a totally different beast than a short splice or fore arm and far more difficult to execute properly.
All of us are a little loose with our language sometimes and it is easy to confuse long and short points with long and short splices. The post below refers to short and long points in short splices.
Although I don't think John has done all of the hard work making a cue when he makes a long splice I do agree that making nothing but long splices is all hard work without doing any of the less tedious work to break the grind. I usually set up my work flow to take a break here and there from the toughest work to turn out. No margin for error in any of it but some things are easier to do error free.
Hu
Thanks JCIN.
Dave <--- maker of a jump-cue-that-will-not-jump
.... but it does have nice points 
PS In the spirit of full disclosure, the jump-cue-that-will-not-jump has a McDermott shaft, but with a DaveK made & installed buckhorn ferrule
I disagree. I think it is precisely the same.
Jeff Prather makes just as good a forearm as those so-called forefathers did, maybe even better.
And, by-the-way, many of Balabushka's cues were finished with clear lacquer out of a spray can.
So what's worse, a cuemaker who uses pre-made parts of another builder or people claiming that they know cuemakers do it when they actually have absolutely no proof or solid reason to beleive such?
Ross, i'm sure you know exactly what you are talking about. JCIN, undoubtedly you know as much or more about cues than a huge margin of actual cuemakers. Fred, I have no doubt anything you say you learned from interviewing cuemakers is truth. As sure as I am the three of you are 100% trustworthy, I am 100% sure there are others who are idiots pretending to be "in the know". The world is full of stupid people who pretend they know something the rest of us do not.
Don't have any doubts about top teir builders. They attain their status & reputation by being solid & providing a solid product. You can't BS your way to the top. Put up or shut up. Even some cuemakers lie. But the guys on top are there because they earned their way to that position, not because they lied their way there.
Ross, i'm sure you know exactly what you are talking about. JCIN, undoubtedly you know as much or more about cues than a huge margin of actual cuemakers. Fred, I have no doubt anything you say you learned from interviewing cuemakers is truth. As sure as I am the three of you are 100% trustworthy, I am 100% sure there are others who are idiots pretending to be "in the know". The world is full of stupid people who pretend they know something the rest of us do not.
Don't have any doubts about top teir builders. They attain their status & reputation by being solid & providing a solid product. You can't BS your way to the top. Put up or shut up. Even some cuemakers lie. But the guys on top are there because they earned their way to that position, not because they lied their way there.
Purdman
Banned
I find this interesting. I know a cue collector that has taken a Black Boar to another cue maker and had inlays added. This brings up the question, who is worse. The collector or the cuemaker?
It wasn't the first time and I know the cues have been sold as Black Boars.
Don P.
I would say neither...As long as its sold as a BB with inlays added by XXXXX and priced acordingly. If its sold as a BB with BB inlays then its unethicial on the sellers part. although its still a BB it should be sold with full disclosure to the buyer.
Purdman
Banned
I think there are a lot of members that would disclose all the info..The problem comes more often with the future sale..I'm sure you've seen it on here before that your NOT going to sell a BB thats not origional without getting run through the ringer.. It goes along the lines of the forearm being discussed, Ask questions and do your homework before buying a cue, especialy a 1K+ cue