How do road players do it?

As long as greed and beer exist a person can make a little money playing pool on the road. However the average road player wants no part of the tough action or even if he wants the tough action he still spends over 90% of his time clubbing baby seals. He doesn't live like a prince either. I laugh at the cost estimates for living on the road. Not the healthiest diet but I can lived a week on twenty dollars and never miss a meal. As for sleeping accommodations, there was a reason almost all road players chose a big car to travel in, they knew that there were going to be some nights or days sleeping in it.

Like all gamblers and competitors, the road players remember the great trips. Few "remember" waking up in the car in a cornfield or patch of woods cold, hungry, and broke. That last twenty dollar bill you have tucked away has to go into the gas tank, buying a beer when you walk into a bar that you will hate to have hit your stomach that has been empty for 24 hours, and getting on the table for small stakes to start building up again. Gotta buy that beer to look like a regular guy and got to act like you don't have a care in the world a thousand miles from home and busted.

A road player's life is boom and bust, more bust for most of them than they ever want to admit to. Their best friends are pool room and bar owners that will let them snatch a little sleep in a back room and few haven't hustled a girl because her main attraction was a bed to sleep in!

I took a few road trips but my routine had been fine honed within a hundred miles of home. I wasn't looking to make a name for myself, that was the last thing I wanted. I was looking for the suckers in a bar that were a little too loud and a little too proud. I was also looking for the bar room hustlers. To put it bluntly, I was looking for easy action, clubbing those baby seals. Playing a top player for six or eight hours to come out roughly even might be fun but it didn't put beans on the table or pay mortgages.

Very few people today want any part of the life of a typical road player from fifty years ago. It wasn't all that much fun then although it makes for great stories if you survive it. Could you still do it? Absolutely! Watch out for that ol' man in dirty jeans and ragged t-shirt with twenty dollar bills dripping out of his shirt pocket though, he has been plucking chickens far longer than you have been born and he is pretty good at it.

Hu

In the 60's and early 70's I could TRAVEL on $20-30 a day, no problem. Today, I'm sure between motel, gas and food we are talking at least $75-100 a day. You could still make it today playing cheap sets of 9-Ball ($100-200) and $30-50 One Pocket games. That is, if you played good enough and avoided the top players. One Pocket Ghost (Ghosty) makes out all right just playing One Pocket exclusively.
 
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road player

Well i use to play a little on the road with a friend of mine. and we used the military system--- ever heard of a point man?? we had fellow players that would put on action, that we knew we would win for a piece of the action.or just hang around a couple days--always a mouth in room that going to give up who the best is!! you watch and figure the odds!!!not a easy life!!!:confused::boring2::frown::p
 
I don't understand who these people are who bet it up but can't get there. Around me there are two kinds of players: players you can't beat (they have names that are known on here), and players who won't bet much (myself included). Sure, there are lots of guys who will lose $20. But you're not going to make $200 without locking up with a guy who you have to be REALLY good (A+ player) to beat consistently.

-Andrew
 
Great stories from Gene and Jay. I lived in an area in NY about an hour north of NYC and we had what you would call road house bars with porches on the front and horseshoes in the back. These were tough joints but when people lost they paid but you better know how to handle yourself.

I am not seasoned and have not been around the game as long or as much as Jay and Gene but have had a good deal of fun and made a couple bucks along the way. We did not have many poolrooms in the area I lived, just tough roadhouses but if you were a good B player you could beat everyone.

I was just getting started with pool and could make balls but really was clueless about the game until I finally got into a poolroom and got a job there because the bug bit me hard and it was all I wanted to do was play and improve. I go back to NY once or twice a year and visit and when I go into my old haunts where I know everyone and they know me they really think I am a hustler or something, but they are just as clueless as I was when I began this journey.

I could run around these bars as I did many times and would start out at say 9PM and go out and have a route so to speak, go from bar to bar, if there were people I would stay, if they were not I would keep it moving. I never knew what might happen, walk out the door with $20 in my pocket and come back with $300 was a nice feeling or at the least I would play pool all night and get drunk which was fun too.

I have not done this since being out here in Phoenix besides going out with some buddies one night to a cue club that is all college kids and actually getting some foreign guys to bet $50-$100 a game on 8 ball, that was a fun night. I think the main reason I do not do that same thing here is I knew people everywhere I went back east but here going it alone into some of these bars not knowing anyone could be rough.

I think the road player has to have brains and balls plain and simple, try going into a rough place by yourself with a good deal of money, you better be sharp and not get silly with the booze or you might held up. IMO the safest place to play are poolrooms, the bar rooms can be rough places, might get into a fight over a $5 game of pool but you can win a $1000 in a poolroom and not have an issue.

I did run game with a good player a couple times and this is how it went down. I would go to a poolroom and say I was looking to play some and lose, it was not hard for me as I am just a B player who cant hold his cue right. The next night I would come in and of course they were happy to see me and I would see a guy over in the corner and ask him to play.

I would beat him for a good amount of money and when I was leaving the counter guy would know about my good little score but I had to run and meet up for my hot date. Since I planted seeds yesterday with my loss and my crap play. When I walked out the counter guy would clue in one of the regular guys about me beating the guy in the corner.

Of course he strolls on over and ask to play and the guy says he just lost heavily and does not want to play, he gets offered an incentive with some weight and of course the guy thinking he has a pigeon wants to bet it up. Well it did not work out too well for him as he was being setup and trapped into a game with someone who could give him the 7 out but instead of getting the 7 out he is giving it up, a good room for adjusting and making a score.

I know some of this stuff we speak of is treacherous in some ways and most of us who have gambled have made moves but as Jay said a win is a win. I think playing on someones greed and bringing it out like the story above with the guy thinking he has some easy money is not as treacherous but everyone has an opinion.

I think most of us who have gambled have played games for money we had no chance of losing, to me its not hustling but some people just do not know where they stand on the food chain, one of the most important things is knowing where you stand as a player and matching up right. I have seen some weak players who knew how to match up good and get the cash and good players who matched up weak and got busted.
 
As long as greed and beer exist a person can make a little money playing pool on the road. However the average road player wants no part of the tough action or even if he wants the tough action he still spends over 90% of his time clubbing baby seals. He doesn't live like a prince either. I laugh at the cost estimates for living on the road. Not the healthiest diet but I can lived a week on twenty dollars and never miss a meal. As for sleeping accommodations, there was a reason almost all road players chose a big car to travel in, they knew that there were going to be some nights or days sleeping in it.

Like all gamblers and competitors, the road players remember the great trips. Few "remember" waking up in the car in a cornfield or patch of woods cold, hungry, and broke. That last twenty dollar bill you have tucked away has to go into the gas tank, buying a beer when you walk into a bar that you will hate to have hit your stomach that has been empty for 24 hours, and getting on the table for small stakes to start building up again. Gotta buy that beer to look like a regular guy and got to act like you don't have a care in the world a thousand miles from home and busted.

A road player's life is boom and bust, more bust for most of them than they ever want to admit to. Their best friends are pool room and bar owners that will let them snatch a little sleep in a back room and few haven't hustled a girl because her main attraction was a bed to sleep in!

I took a few road trips but my routine had been fine honed within a hundred miles of home. I wasn't looking to make a name for myself, that was the last thing I wanted. I was looking for the suckers in a bar that were a little too loud and a little too proud. I was also looking for the bar room hustlers. To put it bluntly, I was looking for easy action, clubbing those baby seals. Playing a top player for six or eight hours to come out roughly even might be fun but it didn't put beans on the table or pay mortgages.

Very few people today want any part of the life of a typical road player from fifty years ago. It wasn't all that much fun then although it makes for great stories if you survive it. Could you still do it? Absolutely! Watch out for that ol' man in dirty jeans and ragged t-shirt with twenty dollar bills dripping out of his shirt pocket though, he has been plucking chickens far longer than you have been born and he is pretty good at it.

Hu

Good story Hu and your right about the bars and the loud mouths. Reminds me of a time I was playing this guy who was totally whacked and beating his chest literally. We started off for drinks, then $10 a game and then $20, this guy had money falling out of his pockets. We end up playing $100 a game and he has no shirt on and drunk as a skunk losing it all. The funny thing is the bar ran out of quarters and they were all in the table with no key! He was so open he wanted to drive a couple miles to a car wash to get more quarters. :grin-square:
 
I only went on a few extended road trips like back and forth across the USA or up and down the West Coast. Most of the time it was short excursions to Vegas or Phoenix or somewhere else. Living in a city like Los Angeles, particularly in the 60's and 70's you never ran out of spots or games. Maybe a hundred or more pool rooms and a thousand bar spots.

Every one who traveled had a different M.O. You had to find what worked for you. I was usually on my own and occasionally with a girlfriend or another player. It's cheaper that way and you can make your own decisions about what to do and who to play. I preferred that. I made money with Jimmy Reid, Danny Medina, Louie, Ronnie, Cecil and Keith but there were always issues to deal with that I won't go into here.

I liked to go to a town, look in the phone book and pick out the biggest poolroom (the one with the biggest ad). I'd walk in, go to the counter and tell the houseman I was looking for a game. This way I never wasted time sitting around and I didn't have to stall either. The truth is I WANTED to play, not just sit on my ass. I had seen a lot of top players who sat around the poolroom all day waiting for a game. That wasn't me.

More often than not, the houseman found someone to play me, and I played THEIR game, whatever it was. Mostly 9-Ball, sometimes One Pocket and even Eight Ball occasionally. I can remember gambling at Snooker and Billiards as well. The way I looked at it (back then) if I was a better player than the other guy, I would eventually get the money. I had a lot of confidence in my ability to book winners. Remember I was in action like six or seven days a week. That helps you stay sharp. Many times after a winning game, someone who was watching would want to steer me to another spot for a piece of the action. I found a lot of good games that way.

The only time I drew the line was if the guy who they brought in was a known player. Back in those days, there may have been about 200 top players in the country. I felt like I knew most of them, so if the guy was a stranger to me I would play him. Sometimes guys would tell me to be careful, I might be getting hustled. The way I looked at it was that I played good enough to protect myself, meaning that if a guy stalled with me I was going to beat him. I got some pretty good players stuck who tried to do exactly that. Then they had a real problem getting even.

Only two guys ever actually hustled me successfully. Larry Lisciotti and Wade Crane (Billy Johnson). I lost about $300 to each of them. In the late 60's and early 70's I had a winning record like the Globetrotters. I used to go for months without losing. Of course I was playing a lot of suckers (and giving up weight), but like Geno said, a win's a win! I was into making money too. I liked having a bank account and money in my pocket. But I can remember a time when I carried my total net worth on me.

The bars were where the softest action was in those days. I preferred playing on big tables, but if I found a good bar spot, I would milk it. By 1972 I owned my first poolroom and after ten years exclusively as a pool gambler I became a businessman (and a pool gambler). But it was damn nice to have money coming in every day. :smile:

P.S. I was thinking about it. Back then all I wanted was a clean place to stay, a good car and some money in my pocket. Things haven't really changed that much for me :rolleyes:. Of course my cue stick was my most valuable possession, then and now. If all else fails, I can always go back to playing pool. Maybe I'm just arrogant but I still feel like there is only a handful of guys in L.A. I can't beat. And even those guys might be in trouble if they give me a little weight.
Thanks Jay. This was very interesting to read and it sounds like you had a good time going from your total net worth in your pocket to owning your own room.......

James
 
There are still a few suckers out there..

Not as many as the old days but still a sucker to be had now & again...Awhile back John Schmidt,Josh hilliard & Brandon B caught a wild hair & came down to New Orleans looking to get in da grease.they called me & I told them i'd meet them at the Corner Pocket...they arrive & it was a slow night with none of the none gamblers there so i told them.lets go down the road to Buffalo's...We go there & aren't there long and this stone sucker that couldn't even beat me...which is bad..lol..Well he walks up to John & says..You want to play...John politely tells him..no thx..thinking he just wanted to hit balls...John says..i really don't like to just play...I like to play for money....The guys says...Me too...John says ok...but i want to tell you...I'm pretty good...the guy tells John....Me Too !!! we were laughing our @sses off in the background cuz this guy was clueless...well they play 1st game for $20 a game & kept doubling thye bet till the guy ran out of money plus ran his girlfriend out of money...then tells John...You hustled me...John says no i didnt i told you i was a good player..the guys girlfriend is sitting there nodding her head yes...saying he did tell you...I told John not to worry...that I had his back..& would put the guy to sleep if he got out of line...the guy finally let it all go & took his @ss kicking from John...But it was a funny story how a nobody was calling out John...AHHHHHH ....Good times....lol:grin-square:
 
overheard Buff

I overheard Buff asking somebody if his roommate had made it to town fairly recently. Buff wasn't mentioning any names so I knew somebody was sneaking into town. None of my business so I didn't pass it on to anyone. I knew that Buff would take care of a few locals and most aren't pilgrims anyway.

Too funny that somebody chose John to empty out on, probably because he looks almost like a citizen most of the time.

Hu


Not as many as the old days but still a sucker to be had now & again...Awhile back John Schmidt,Josh hilliard & Brandon B caught a wild hair & came down to New Orleans looking to get in da grease.they called me & I told them i'd meet them at the Corner Pocket...they arrive & it was a slow night with none of the none gamblers there so i told them.lets go down the road to Buffalo's...We go there & aren't there long and this stone sucker that couldn't even beat me...which is bad..lol..Well he walks up to John & says..You want to play...John politely tells him..no thx..thinking he just wanted to hit balls...John says..i really don't like to just play...I like to play for money....The guys says...Me too...John says ok...but i want to tell you...I'm pretty good...the guy tells John....Me Too !!! we were laughing our @sses off in the background cuz this guy was clueless...well they play 1st game for $20 a game & kept doubling thye bet till the guy ran out of money plus ran his girlfriend out of money...then tells John...You hustled me...John says no i didnt i told you i was a good player..the guys girlfriend is sitting there nodding her head yes...saying he did tell you...I told John not to worry...that I had his back..& would put the guy to sleep if he got out of line...the guy finally let it all go & took his @ss kicking from John...But it was a funny story how a nobody was calling out John...AHHHHHH ....Good times....lol:grin-square:
 
In the 60's and early 70's I could TRAVEL on $20-30 a day, no problem. Today, I'm sure between motel, gas and food we are talking at least $75-100 a day. You could still make it today playing cheap sets of 9-Ball ($100-200) and $30-50 One Pocket games. That is, if you played good enough and avoided the top players. One Pocket Ghost (Ghosty) makes out all right just playing One Pocket exclusively.

Jay, did you and Gary take any trips together? He told us a lot of stories, one of which involved Crazy Frank from Buffalo, NY:eek:
 
With the prices out there these days and the state of the economy, I don't see it happening that much anymore. The information highway, hasn't helped the road player either. CHALLENGE MATCHES are the way to go, but how many players are going to step up and play.

I strongly suggest a second income.
 
I don't understand who these people are who bet it up but can't get there. Around me there are two kinds of players: players you can't beat (they have names that are known on here), and players who won't bet much (myself included). Sure, there are lots of guys who will lose $20. But you're not going to make $200 without locking up with a guy who you have to be REALLY good (A+ player) to beat consistently.

-Andrew

You must have forgotten about me!

Seriously, though, there's a number of B to A- players around that will play for those stakes. Not typically $200/set, but $200/session regularly (something like $20-40/game 1P or $50 9-ball sets to 7).

You'd have to either trick them or give up weight, though.
 
As long as greed and beer exist a person can make a little money playing pool on the road. However the average road player wants no part of the tough action or even if he wants the tough action he still spends over 90% of his time clubbing baby seals. He doesn't live like a prince either. I laugh at the cost estimates for living on the road. Not the healthiest diet but I can lived a week on twenty dollars and never miss a meal. As for sleeping accommodations, there was a reason almost all road players chose a big car to travel in, they knew that there were going to be some nights or days sleeping in it.

Like all gamblers and competitors, the road players remember the great trips. Few "remember" waking up in the car in a cornfield or patch of woods cold, hungry, and broke. That last twenty dollar bill you have tucked away has to go into the gas tank, buying a beer when you walk into a bar that you will hate to have hit your stomach that has been empty for 24 hours, and getting on the table for small stakes to start building up again. Gotta buy that beer to look like a regular guy and got to act like you don't have a care in the world a thousand miles from home and busted.

A road player's life is boom and bust, more bust for most of them than they ever want to admit to. Their best friends are pool room and bar owners that will let them snatch a little sleep in a back room and few haven't hustled a girl because her main attraction was a bed to sleep in!

I took a few road trips but my routine had been fine honed within a hundred miles of home. I wasn't looking to make a name for myself, that was the last thing I wanted. I was looking for the suckers in a bar that were a little too loud and a little too proud. I was also looking for the bar room hustlers. To put it bluntly, I was looking for easy action, clubbing those baby seals. Playing a top player for six or eight hours to come out roughly even might be fun but it didn't put beans on the table or pay mortgages.

Very few people today want any part of the life of a typical road player from fifty years ago. It wasn't all that much fun then although it makes for great stories if you survive it. Could you still do it? Absolutely! Watch out for that ol' man in dirty jeans and ragged t-shirt with twenty dollar bills dripping out of his shirt pocket though, he has been plucking chickens far longer than you have been born and he is pretty good at it.

Hu

i have been on the road many years never had to sleep in my car.
and never went in to bars to hustle maby 10 times .
 
Thanks for the story.

Thats Funny....I had lunch with John Schmidt at Turning Stone in December and he told that story to us as well.......he was laughing when when he said " I told the guy, I'm pretty good and he was like so am I "
Really good guy, you can tell you how much he loves the game, he literally talked all through lunch about pool.... and the occasional dirt bike story.

Dave


Not as many as the old days but still a sucker to be had now & again...Awhile back John Schmidt,Josh hilliard & Brandon B caught a wild hair & came down to New Orleans looking to get in da grease.they called me & I told them i'd meet them at the Corner Pocket...they arrive & it was a slow night with none of the none gamblers there so i told them.lets go down the road to Buffalo's...We go there & aren't there long and this stone sucker that couldn't even beat me...which is bad..lol..Well he walks up to John & says..You want to play...John politely tells him..no thx..thinking he just wanted to hit balls...John says..i really don't like to just play...I like to play for money....The guys says...Me too...John says ok...but i want to tell you...I'm pretty good...the guy tells John....Me Too !!! we were laughing our @sses off in the background cuz this guy was clueless...well they play 1st game for $20 a game & kept doubling thye bet till the guy ran out of money plus ran his girlfriend out of money...then tells John...You hustled me...John says no i didnt i told you i was a good player..the guys girlfriend is sitting there nodding her head yes...saying he did tell you...I told John not to worry...that I had his back..& would put the guy to sleep if he got out of line...the guy finally let it all go & took his @ss kicking from John...But it was a funny story how a nobody was calling out John...AHHHHHH ....Good times....lol:grin-square:
 
Jay, did you and Gary take any trips together? He told us a lot of stories, one of which involved Crazy Frank from Buffalo, NY:eek:

Yeah, we took some short excursions around L.A. VERY proftable ones at that!
You're talking about (Frank) "Bionic" Jonik I believe. He was liable to do anything at any time, and he played good too. ;)
 
that's crazy

Yeah, we took some short excursions around L.A. VERY proftable ones at that!
You're talking about (Frank) "Bionic" Jonik I believe. He was liable to do anything at any time, and he played good too. ;)

There IS a Crazy Frank from Buffalo NY.His last name is Piasecki.
Plays alright.Came 3rd in a big tourney in '75. Tom Jennings won,
Mike Segel came 2nd.Passed a lot of good players.He earned his name,
very entertaining.
Bionic travelled as Frank James - must have robbed someone at banks.
 
Jimmy King, those of you who know, will know who I am talking about, told me once that hustling pool is like robbing people without a gun and much easier. He gave me a bunch of tips on how to hustle pool in places where people wouldn't normally bet that water is wet.

Jimmy Reid also had a whole bunch of signals designed to communicate when hustling and matching up.

On expenses and the daily nut: Allen Hopkins told me a story of going on the road with someone who had never been out with him before. One night they make a good score of about $8000 and the next night night Allen is in the pool room playing someone for $5 a game. His road partner asks him why he is playing for $5 a game when they scored the night before. Allen says, "we still haven't made the room rent today."
 
There was a road player around Jersey years ago named Richie Ambrose.
At the time i saw him in the 80's he was living out of a van and always wore black. One night he was playing a legend that was known to go off for thousands. Now this legend(rather not name him)was a good short stop speed (watched him get the 8 from Jimmy Fusco once for $100 a game)
Now i don't know how good Richie could play but he played good enough to win. Anybody know about Richie Ambrose?
 
Sudden Sam

Geno,
Can you describe him? I knew a 'Sudden Sam' that came from central Illinois years ago.
 
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