More elbow dropping nonsense

[lfigueroa]

I may not know as much as PJ (I admit, he's a smart cat), but I'm a WAY nicer guy. If he wasn't so hell-bent on being curt, mean, and down-right negative on nearly every post--- he'd be ok in my book. He might know a lot I don't, but when it comes to "how" to pocket a ball--- I think I got'm.

I didn't know the guy was banned. I read the thread on where he got hammered, but I was lost as to why (I admit, I don't know the reference he made or what Mr. Wilson had said prior). These controversial threads aren't as much fun without Captain Know-Everything.

After reading all of the posts, Lou Figueroa (hopefully i spelled that correctly) had the best insight, imo. I think he's perfectly spot-on with the curling analogy. When playing last night, I found I was dropping my elbow to lock-in the speed/vector of the stroke.

Full marks for spelling Mr. Spider

You know, I wasn't sure anyone else would get the Curling analogy. All I know is that sometimes, more is better. And, IMO, pool demands a variety of techniques -- I'm not saying repeatability isn't good, great, and necessary, but you also have to know when to deviate. Sometimes you're teeing off, and sometimes you're chipping, or putting, or blasting from a sand trap :-o

Lou Figueroa

 

[Glendale]

Geez, this thread still going strong, I see. Nothing wrong with elbow dropping. That's all I have to contribute to this thread. ,ktluop87jhkfyjriuiop[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[866y

 

[Koop]

Full marks for spelling Mr. Spider

You know, I wasn't sure anyone else would get the Curling analogy. All I know is that sometimes, more is better. And, IMO, pool demands a variety of techniques -- I'm not saying repeatability isn't good, great, and necessary, but you also have to know when to deviate. Sometimes you're teeing off, and sometimes you're chipping, or putting, or blasting from a sand trap :-o

Lou Figueroa

What a great analogy.
IMO, this goes along with trying to teach someone that little push safety against the rail but they are practice stroking like they are trying to go 3 rails around the table, won't work.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Full marks for spelling Mr. Spider

You know, I wasn't sure anyone else would get the Curling analogy. All I know is that sometimes, more is better. And, IMO, pool demands a variety of techniques -- I'm not saying repeatability isn't good, great, and necessary, but you also have to know when to deviate. Sometimes you're teeing off, and sometimes you're chipping, or putting, or blasting from a sand trap :-o

Lou Figueroa

I like this analogy as well. I never stroke the same for all shots. Different shots require different motions.

I swoop all the time, on purpose, for example.

 

[pooltchr]

I'm not saying repeatability isn't good, great, and necessary, but you also have to know when to deviate.
Lou Figueroa

Absolutely correct. When we teach our classes, we always tell our students that what they are learning is SOP. It will apply to most shots they encounter on the table. We also teach a higher level class that covers those shots where SOP may not be the best option.

There is no "one way" for everyone, but there is a "best way" for many. As Scott posted, if what you are doing is working, there is no reason to change it. But, if you are seeking out an instructor, chances are you feel that something you are doing isn't working. It becomes our job to help you discover what is going wrong, and what to do to correct it.

Steve

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I read somewhere that Lee Brett was setting up an "Elbow drop and 'V' tour" in the U.S. I guess those who knowingly drop their elbows through the shot might want to consider seeking out a stop and getting some info.

I know when he stayed with me, his "V" technique paired with the drop gave me really great results.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Can anyone shoot a killshot without dropping the elbow or letting the cue go?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM3FLwCrCk
Like Efren does at .35.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Can anyone shoot a killshot without dropping the elbow or letting the cue go?

Can you set that up on a cuetable diagram?

 

[Russ Chewning]

Can you set that up on a cuetable diagram?

Here's one, spidey.

Set up an OB one diamond from both rails near a corner pocket.

Set up CB at other end of table, 1 1/2 diamond from both rails, same side of the table.

Bank the OB back to the pocket nearest you. Speed to hang it up, but NOT make it.

Whilst drawing the CB back to the rail nearest you.

OB goes about 10 feet, CB draws about 7 feet. It IS possible.

But I wanna see someone do it without elbow drop. There are those that say that any shot can be made just as consistently with a pendulum. Well, this is the shot that will prove it.

Sorry..Cuetable does not work..at work.

Russ

 

[Neil]

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[Neil]

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[aworkinprogress]

Quote

So I see there are many instructors who have replied to this post and now I am confused. I have been reading many books and I am currently reading Play Your Best Eight Ball by Phil Capelle and on page 45 under 12 Keys for Getting in Stroke number ten says you should "10 - Drop Your Elbow After Contact - After contact the elbow should drop as the arm swings forward and as it glides to a stop". Now I have seen that this is one of the best instructional books out there and that the author is well known and respected so why the conflicting views from the instructors posting on this site? I am only an APA 5 so I am trying to learn as much as I can and am now confused.

 

[Celtic]

Celtic,

You said it yourself. Your post included personal attack. He attacked viewpoints.

No Hu, my asking him if he has any common sense is no more of a personal attack then Neil telling Politesniper to learn to read.

You have your bias, that is cool, but in no ways was I out of the bounds that Neil had previously set. And Neil was not far gone anyhow, we don't all have to be lovey dovey on the forum as long as we don't get into belligerant attacks, and neither Neil or myself got anywhere close to that. So your threat of a "report" seemed a little touchy on your part.

 

[JoeW]

On pages 22-23 of “99 Critical Shots” Martin discusses the pendulum swing . However the photo at the bottom of page 22 shows an elbow drop relative to the photo above it. Martin says, “But a perfect pendulum is only the beginning. Just as, in golf, a player swings through the ball, so in pool a player strokes through the ball. He shoots with a smooth flowing follow through, as though the ball was not even there and the cue increases in speed until contact, and then comes to a natural stop.” The italicized portion is in the original.

Robert Byrne in his “New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards” on page 19 quotes Hoppe as follows, “Hit through the cue ball without any feeling of checking your stroke, even on draw shots. ‘Let the ball have the last finishing caress.’ (Willie Hoppe, Thirty Years of Billiards)”

Jack Koehler, in “The Science of Pocket Billiards” says, “Follow through is for the mind as well as mechanics. If we tell our conscious mind that we can stop the stroke (or swing) immediately after impact with the ball, our subconscious mind will be concentrating on stopping the stroke while it is in progress.” (Bold type is in the original)

So it depends upon how you interpret what is said and what the author means by follow through. Martin explicitly demonstrates a dropped elbow in his photos.

 

[Celtic]

Well. I practiced for about 3 hours with CJ Wiley a few weeks ago. He explained something I was doing wrong. Took him about 20 minutes.

He did not try to change my stroke. He simply told me to change the way I hit cut shots, and it improved my game a ball.

Overnight.

I am NOT exaggerating, here. I had not placed in the money in even the mid level events here in TX. He took 20 minutes with me, and within two weeks, I had Little Al Mason buying me in the calcutta for a Dallas area handicapped tourney. And he was sidebetting on me against some of the best players in the field, getting three games. And winning!

I took a lesson with a BCA ceritified instructor. He attempted to get me to remove the elbow drop out of my stroke. It did a lot of damage to my game.

Personally, I think that the BCA program has WAY too much of a cookie cutter approach. I would have been much better served by getting an hour lesson from someone who could work with what I was bringing to the table.

I may joke about my C player status, but I am NO novice. A legitimate C player can benefit from a cookie cutter approach. Once that player reaches strong B status, then it is time for his instructor to teach more advanced concepts.

Russ

Bsically my thoughts in a nutshell. I took a lesson from Jerry Briesath and it did not help 1 iota and was all elbow drop witchhunt. I took a lesson from Paul Potier and he worked with my stroke and just tweaked my natural style to make it more effective. The lesson from the pro was dramatically more effective. I would get a lesson from CJ Wiley, Earl, pretty much any pro if I needed help, those guys know what it takes to shoot world class pool and they have seen thousands of various strokes from their peers over the decades and what works for them. They will see certain other players styles in your stroke and work with you to make that stroke better as it does for those other pros they know. They will see who you stroke like and see where you are not getting the accuracy of another pro with a similar stroke. They can see the differences in the two strokes and as a pro they know why one is more effective then the other and work you towards the better version of your natural stroke style. If a group of instructors took the time to do the above, analyse the pros to that degree and then use that knowledge to work with each individual student they would be far more effective. Oddly enough though it is instead "well your stroke looks almost like Earl Strickland's, that sucks, look at all that elbow drop, lets get away from that Strickland stroke and get you some pendulum strokin gold". Go figure some people are wondering what is up with that.

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

Who da fuxer cares how you get it there, how it looks, and if your doing somersaults & jumping jacks in mid stroke? If you can deliver the cue on a straight consistant line where your aiming & through the cueball, perfect. Move on.

 

[8JIM9]

The elbow-drop indicates a piston stroke, while a static elbow indicates a pendulum stroke. It seems that most pro 9-ball players use a piston stroke, because they need to move the cueball more. Straight-pool players seem to use a pendulum stroke, probably to limit cueball movement. Just something I learned from Jim Rydell.
8JIM9

 

[ShootingArts]

found the perfect stroke

Folks, the debate is over in my mind. I have found the perfect stroke, a pendulum with a lot of wrist action. Gives me plenty of speed and power, super accuracy too. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the best stroke of all, for hammering heavy finishing nails through trim and concrete siding! For shooting pool I'm still keeping all options open.

Hu

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Who da fuxer cares how you get it there, how it looks, and if your doing somersaults & jumping jacks in mid stroke? If you can deliver the cue on a straight consistant line where your aiming & through the cueball, perfect. Move on.

Clearly you don't care about this topic. However the posters here do, hence the 36 pages of thread. Are you suggesting that there should only be discussions that are interesting to you? Seems like a somewhat pointless self-centered comment. Participation in this thread is optional.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Scott Lee]

Phil Capelle is an author, not an instructor.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

So I see there are many instructors who have replied to this post and now I am confused. I have been reading many books and I am currently reading Play Your Best Eight Ball by Phil Capelle and on page 45 under 12 Keys for Getting in Stroke number ten says you should "10 - Drop Your Elbow After Contact - After contact the elbow should drop as the arm swings forward and as it glides to a stop". Now I have seen that this is one of the best instructional books out there and that the author is well known and respected so why the conflicting views from the instructors posting on this site? I am only an APA 5 so I am trying to learn as much as I can and am now confused.