Constantly buying new break cues - Realization
- Thread starter Klopek
- Start date
klopek,
I came to the same realization many years ago. I still use an, at least fifteen year old, Schon shaft with a tip thats been on the shaft for at least five years! Tip is still just fine. For those of you who think I'm crazy, ask the guy I broke and ran four racks on at the SBE. Incidentally, I did not win the match as he broke and ran four right back on me. Its not the shaft. Not the tip. Not the butt. It is all that plus timing, accuracy and a lot of luck!
Lyn
I came to the same realization many years ago. I still use an, at least fifteen year old, Schon shaft with a tip thats been on the shaft for at least five years! Tip is still just fine. For those of you who think I'm crazy, ask the guy I broke and ran four racks on at the SBE. Incidentally, I did not win the match as he broke and ran four right back on me. Its not the shaft. Not the tip. Not the butt. It is all that plus timing, accuracy and a lot of luck!
Lyn
I think the best thing to do is just to buy one of the top 3 break cues out there (the one that is most comfortable or to your liking) - and then be content and satisfied with it knowing it's one of the best or good enough and then focus completely on your game.
Make it a breaking point, pun intended, between the equipment part of the game, and the skill based part of the game. Too many people are equipment focused which is not a good idea. Without question, get good equipment, but you only need to do that once and it is a fairly quick and easy process that only involves paying for and obtaining it. Let's say you get a BK2. Great! You got it now. You got a top level break cue. Alright, enough of that...now back to breaking technique.
Skills must be earned. That's the hard part. But nothing is hard when it's fun. Don't forget to have fun.
I've found in myself and in other people, the moment they just say "f-it, my cue is just fine" in their heart and mind, and just stop thinking about equipment and just start playing the game because the game is within them, not the stick....they begin to advance and quickly.
Buying skill doesn't work. Blaming equipment doesn't work. Only understanding, practice and work produces results.
Make it a breaking point, pun intended, between the equipment part of the game, and the skill based part of the game. Too many people are equipment focused which is not a good idea. Without question, get good equipment, but you only need to do that once and it is a fairly quick and easy process that only involves paying for and obtaining it. Let's say you get a BK2. Great! You got it now. You got a top level break cue. Alright, enough of that...now back to breaking technique.
Skills must be earned. That's the hard part. But nothing is hard when it's fun. Don't forget to have fun.
I've found in myself and in other people, the moment they just say "f-it, my cue is just fine" in their heart and mind, and just stop thinking about equipment and just start playing the game because the game is within them, not the stick....they begin to advance and quickly.
Buying skill doesn't work. Blaming equipment doesn't work. Only understanding, practice and work produces results.
I agree 100%, but i'd like to add that your opponent has to give you a good rack.......
James
My break is embarassing for a guy my size. I've been working on it a lot lately.
Equipment is not the answer. Regardless of what you hear, I think anybody can have a decent break shot. It took a couple of changes in technique* that now are improving both my power and accuracy.
Chris
* Plus my new OB break shaft :wink:
Much of the "need" many players feel for new cues and equipment break or otherwise is a result of really excellent marketing campaigns. Highly marketed doesn't mean one product is better than another.
Bola Ocho makes two good points above when he says "Skills can't be bought" and I might add "they can be developed with proper instruction and practice" Practice being the larger component to success. His other point which we sometimes forget is that pool should be "fun".
Sometimes when I feel that I need a new cue, I go to a local room and grab a house cue and play with it for an hour or so. Usually after that time, I am convinced that it's the indian and not the arrow. But this has been covered many times before in this forum.
Good luck in acheiving your goals for this game we all love.
Bola Ocho makes two good points above when he says "Skills can't be bought" and I might add "they can be developed with proper instruction and practice" Practice being the larger component to success. His other point which we sometimes forget is that pool should be "fun".
Sometimes when I feel that I need a new cue, I go to a local room and grab a house cue and play with it for an hour or so. Usually after that time, I am convinced that it's the indian and not the arrow. But this has been covered many times before in this forum.
Good luck in acheiving your goals for this game we all love.
Ive been doing the same thing for years.
shoot good, bad breaker.
the best break cue I suggest is a predator bk or bk2.
it's the most forgiving break cue in the works, bar none.
chris G<-----owned over 30 J/B cues....maybe more.
Hey,
Maybe what you need to do is rather than keep on buying break cues, is to practice the break.
Start out by aiming for the break, start out shooting it like a shot. gradually increasing power, once you find that spot where you start to lose control bring it back down one notch.
pay attention to the rack as well, is it tight and is it straight ?
just because you are not making a ball every time does not mean it is not a good break, when you consider all the factors involved !
Good Luck !
Steve
Maybe what you need to do is rather than keep on buying break cues, is to practice the break.
Start out by aiming for the break, start out shooting it like a shot. gradually increasing power, once you find that spot where you start to lose control bring it back down one notch.
pay attention to the rack as well, is it tight and is it straight ?
just because you are not making a ball every time does not mean it is not a good break, when you consider all the factors involved !
Good Luck !
Steve
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Many players complain about their breaks, but most of them are guilty of not practicing their break shot.
I hear "my break sucks" often. I ask, have you been at a table alone doing break shot practice lately? Usually the answer is never.
For a lot of people, their only break practice is the accumulation of all the breaks they've executed at the start of games.
The reason for this is because out of all the types of practice and drills, breaking is probably the most tedious. But that's no excuse. Have to get a table, rack the balls, and break. Take note of the results. Re-rack and break again. And again. A good session would be at least 20 breaks. It isn't uncommon to shoot a practice shot or drill shot 20 times before moving on to another drill or shot, why would it be different for the break?
In breaking, it is much better to start off slow than fast. People think break practice is all about blasting balls at max speed over and over until they get it right.
Starting off with lower speed is best because the lower the speed, the closer to your playing stroke you are, the more control you have - the more accuracy you'll get.
Breaking isn't only about speed, it's about accuracy. A guy who slams a ball at 25mph but clips the 1-ball will get the same or worse spread as the guy who hits the ball at 15mph, but gets a nice clean direct hit on the 1-ball.
As the saying goes, it isn't what you make, it's what you keep.
That applies to breaking. No sense in going full speed if it is uncontrolled because you wasted all that extra speed and energy by not hitting the rack square. Totally defeats all that extra energy put into the shot. You ever see some people hit medium power breaks yet get good spreads, make balls etcetera? That's because they hit the rack very accurately. They are more efficient. All the energy they put into the cue ball is going into the rack.
At max speed, it's more difficult for you to self-diagnose any problems. Much better to start off slower and work your way up in speed. As you do, you'll start to see what is uncomfortable, or what exactly is it that is causing the lack of control. You'll feel the boundary between control and out of control and will be able to then make corrections. At max speed, a lot can be very wrong and it's hard to tell what.
Obviously, making a ball on the break is important, but so to is cueball control. They are probably equally important. I see powerbreakers smash the crap out of their racks all the time, make balls, but end up with no shot whatsoever because the cueball is glued to head rail or foot rail. They just assume it was bad luck. That *can* be true IF the cueball was kicked there. But many times it has nothing to do with luck, but instead, lack of control. It never dawns on these players that their sledgehammer break that spread everything all over the place and made balls was completely and utterly a waste of their time and efforts because they didn't have a shot afterward.
I'm no instructor, nor expert. But I'd wager that it's better to develop a cueball control break first and then work the speed up than it is to start off fast and try and then learn how to control the cue ball. Better off with a weaker break that hits the balls square, leading to more efficiency and a decent spread and balls made as a result, while getting the cueball to stay in the middle of the table.
But this takes patience. It means the player is going to have to suffer through a period of time in their game where they aren't getting the results they want. Especially when they know they can hit the rack harder. A lot of players want to execute crushing breaks and that to them is success. Whatever happens, happens. Cueball, balls made, rack spread and all of that is all luck to them. They only hold themselves accountable to getting the big hit on the rack and the rest is up the pool gods. That's the wrong approach. They should instead measure the success of a good break as where the cueball ends up (prior to being kicked). If you plant it right in the middle of the table - consider that successful even if you didn't make a ball. The rest will fall into place as you increase speed.
For a while, my performance was going down. It was for a lot of reasons, but one that I overlooked was the break (8-ball). I had been slacking on break practice. I corrected that by breaking at least 20 times per practice session. Multiple sessions over time. Working on accuracy and cueball control, then ramping up the speed after the first two elements were becoming consistent.
Well, it really worked. Imagine that. Practice worked!
My matches all of a sudden started becoming much easier. It really helps quite a bit when the cue ball is in the middle of the table, offering me many times more options, I make 2-3 balls on the break, and there are less clusters or none at all. Sure sounds like DUH doesn't it? I said that to myself. Control of the table is great, I can run out or play to a safe. Less problems, more options. All of that makes the situation better for me. That's what happens when you slack off and just expect things to happen on their own. It's so very easy to become accustomed to dealing with what you've got on the table that you overlook the break. A great break literally allows you to play a completely different game. An easier one.
That said, it's one of the most worthwhile things to practice, even if it is tedious to rack balls over and over and break them.
I hear "my break sucks" often. I ask, have you been at a table alone doing break shot practice lately? Usually the answer is never.
For a lot of people, their only break practice is the accumulation of all the breaks they've executed at the start of games.
The reason for this is because out of all the types of practice and drills, breaking is probably the most tedious. But that's no excuse. Have to get a table, rack the balls, and break. Take note of the results. Re-rack and break again. And again. A good session would be at least 20 breaks. It isn't uncommon to shoot a practice shot or drill shot 20 times before moving on to another drill or shot, why would it be different for the break?
In breaking, it is much better to start off slow than fast. People think break practice is all about blasting balls at max speed over and over until they get it right.
Starting off with lower speed is best because the lower the speed, the closer to your playing stroke you are, the more control you have - the more accuracy you'll get.
Breaking isn't only about speed, it's about accuracy. A guy who slams a ball at 25mph but clips the 1-ball will get the same or worse spread as the guy who hits the ball at 15mph, but gets a nice clean direct hit on the 1-ball.
As the saying goes, it isn't what you make, it's what you keep.
That applies to breaking. No sense in going full speed if it is uncontrolled because you wasted all that extra speed and energy by not hitting the rack square. Totally defeats all that extra energy put into the shot. You ever see some people hit medium power breaks yet get good spreads, make balls etcetera? That's because they hit the rack very accurately. They are more efficient. All the energy they put into the cue ball is going into the rack.
At max speed, it's more difficult for you to self-diagnose any problems. Much better to start off slower and work your way up in speed. As you do, you'll start to see what is uncomfortable, or what exactly is it that is causing the lack of control. You'll feel the boundary between control and out of control and will be able to then make corrections. At max speed, a lot can be very wrong and it's hard to tell what.
Obviously, making a ball on the break is important, but so to is cueball control. They are probably equally important. I see powerbreakers smash the crap out of their racks all the time, make balls, but end up with no shot whatsoever because the cueball is glued to head rail or foot rail. They just assume it was bad luck. That *can* be true IF the cueball was kicked there. But many times it has nothing to do with luck, but instead, lack of control. It never dawns on these players that their sledgehammer break that spread everything all over the place and made balls was completely and utterly a waste of their time and efforts because they didn't have a shot afterward.
I'm no instructor, nor expert. But I'd wager that it's better to develop a cueball control break first and then work the speed up than it is to start off fast and try and then learn how to control the cue ball. Better off with a weaker break that hits the balls square, leading to more efficiency and a decent spread and balls made as a result, while getting the cueball to stay in the middle of the table.
But this takes patience. It means the player is going to have to suffer through a period of time in their game where they aren't getting the results they want. Especially when they know they can hit the rack harder. A lot of players want to execute crushing breaks and that to them is success. Whatever happens, happens. Cueball, balls made, rack spread and all of that is all luck to them. They only hold themselves accountable to getting the big hit on the rack and the rest is up the pool gods. That's the wrong approach. They should instead measure the success of a good break as where the cueball ends up (prior to being kicked). If you plant it right in the middle of the table - consider that successful even if you didn't make a ball. The rest will fall into place as you increase speed.
For a while, my performance was going down. It was for a lot of reasons, but one that I overlooked was the break (8-ball). I had been slacking on break practice. I corrected that by breaking at least 20 times per practice session. Multiple sessions over time. Working on accuracy and cueball control, then ramping up the speed after the first two elements were becoming consistent.
Well, it really worked. Imagine that. Practice worked!
My matches all of a sudden started becoming much easier. It really helps quite a bit when the cue ball is in the middle of the table, offering me many times more options, I make 2-3 balls on the break, and there are less clusters or none at all. Sure sounds like DUH doesn't it? I said that to myself. Control of the table is great, I can run out or play to a safe. Less problems, more options. All of that makes the situation better for me. That's what happens when you slack off and just expect things to happen on their own. It's so very easy to become accustomed to dealing with what you've got on the table that you overlook the break. A great break literally allows you to play a completely different game. An easier one.That said, it's one of the most worthwhile things to practice, even if it is tedious to rack balls over and over and break them.
Personally I have a mediocre break, its not terrible by any means but one thing I realized that I have owned about 3 very good jump break cues, the rest have been so-so. I had one jump break made by TNS Tommy Migliore and that SOB would crack them hard all the time, cue ball would come up and slam back down on the table repeatedly and I would make a good deal of balls. I would like to get that cue back for sure. :smile:
Any break you keep the cue ball in play on, is a good break. You can practice the break all you want, but you need to realize that it's an unconrtollable demolition. None of the factors are the same, you'ld like them to be, but in fact they aren't. The balls are never in the same spot, you NEVER hit the cueball with the same speed, same English. The rack could be slightly skewed from the position of the last break. So what do you expect to happen? What is reasonable to expect?
I saw a guy that everyone said had a strong break... 3 times I saw him the ball was on the floor. Last I looked, you cannot shoot from the floor.
The balls won't come off the rail the same, they don't collide the same. So in a situation where you cannot get repetitive results, what are you practicing? Break cues? I have a phenolic tip cue that is a good breaking cue. As long as I maintain the ball after the break, that's my main concern. When you give up the cue ball, is when your break has failed.
JV
I saw a guy that everyone said had a strong break... 3 times I saw him the ball was on the floor. Last I looked, you cannot shoot from the floor.
The balls won't come off the rail the same, they don't collide the same. So in a situation where you cannot get repetitive results, what are you practicing? Break cues? I have a phenolic tip cue that is a good breaking cue. As long as I maintain the ball after the break, that's my main concern. When you give up the cue ball, is when your break has failed.
JV
Any "break" cue (or jump/break cue) has some engineering in it that DOES increase the break speed of the cue ball, therefore, more speed, more balls made! Now that there are "break" tips (not phenolic or G-10) out there that are super hard pressed leather, (such as the Samsara Break tip) the control of the tip hitting the cue ball is better and therefore more successful breaks and less mis-cues and cue ball off the table, (unsuccessful breaks!!!). Some break or jump/break cues are better than others. Personal preference is the new OB Break cue and the Poison VX2.9 Jump/Break by Predator.
In fact, I would venture to say that many break cues are poorly designed and hurt the chances of getting a good break.
Let's just say you don't have a perfect break stroke like a Johnny Archer an Earl or a Ralf Souquet.
Then:
- is that 14.5 mm shaft with the big stiff taper really suitable for breaking? Maybe for breaking windows, but what happens on slightly off center hits? An exagerrated error.
- That super hard tip - does it perform well on shots hit a little off center or does it miscue?
- with that heavy shaft and thick ferrule, is having all that squirt really the best for a break cue? Again, an off center hit will give you a poor break.
Fact is, most break cues are too stiff and squirt way too much for most players. Small mistakes are amplified by these designs. It's no wonder Shane likes to break with his playing cue - he's comfortable with the way it plays, and he has one of the most effective 10 ball breaks in the world.
Practice is definitely the key but knowing what to work on is another issue. What I'm working on is posture, repeatable power stroke path, and timing - and I'm finally getting a clue as to what it takes to break hard and still control the cue ball.
Chris
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getting a break rack training tool helps alot.
I break terrible. JA watched me break and agreeded. He said "It takes anyone a long time to devlop a good break, there aint any short cuts." He rarely gives me advice but he was very matter of fact when he said that, and he is right,. I dont have the cooridition or timing to use my body, so I'm a arm breaker and that dosent get it done unless you know what Donny or Cory know on the soft break.
I break terrible. JA watched me break and agreeded. He said "It takes anyone a long time to devlop a good break, there aint any short cuts." He rarely gives me advice but he was very matter of fact when he said that, and he is right,. I dont have the cooridition or timing to use my body, so I'm a arm breaker and that dosent get it done unless you know what Donny or Cory know on the soft break.
Welcome to the club... I have been working on putting some body into it, but it's not easy...I'm now working on the theory that a break isn't really a reaction thing. After all, I have all the time in the world to start the process through. So, I start with stance, being sure my right foot is thoroughly planted...then replicate the action I have practiced.
The analysis's of break shots on you tube have helped me. Not that I have a 30+ mph break or anything, but I can move & spread the balls now.
That's probably why the BK2 is the best break cue. If you're a bit off center on the CB, the low squirt properties will help you get a square hit. Unfortunately, you'll have sidespin on the CB and it will not react the way you want it to hurting your after break position which could make the entire process a waste. While you don't get the CB control you want, at least you get a decent hit on the rack. At that point, you have to hope for luck in getting a shot. You want to avoid that whole situation by getting a good hit on the ball. So the benefit of the BK2 isn't as great as some think.
Hard tips are better for breaking as they are more efficient.
I think more important than tip, deflection/squirt or any of that is a good weight, balance and taper. Be sure the weight and balance is good for you, and then make sure the cue has a good taper to it.
These break cues that have huge 14mm ferrules that begin to taper outward like a Euro taper (conical) are horrible. Really fat shafts that do not slide smoothly through the bridge hand. That hinders smoothness and speed, which is most important.
I guess getting one of these won't help
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=163251&highlight=randy+mobley+break
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=163251&highlight=randy+mobley+break