APA.........You Do the Math.

[LeagueGuy]

Just as a point of fact and real life example:

My apa 8b team started out this session @ 3 3 4 5 5 5 5 6
Currently that same team is handicapped. 4 4 5 6 6 6 6 6

As you can see, everyone except the intial 6 went up. In one freakin session! And these are established long time league players....half or so have a decade in....this team will be no more next session. Sucks.

How did you start the session without realizing that most of your players were underranked. That is not the fault of the system but the fault of the captain.
Not sure if they were new or not but if anyone on the team had played APA for even 1 session prior, then they should have realized what was coming.

 

[jason]

How did you start the session without realizing that most of your players were underranked. That is not the fault of the system but the fault of the captain.
Not sure if they were new or not but if anyone on the team had played APA for even 1 session prior, then they should have realized what was coming.

Ooohh, please LeagueGuy! It is totally the failure of the system. The captain is only a small part of this system. If we lived in a perfect world, we wouldn't need any systems at all. Nice rose colored glasses you're wearing. Take them off and put on the brown ones, you might see the world differently.

 

[greyghost]

Ooohh, please LeagueGuy! It is totally the failure of the system. The captain is only a small part of this system. If we lived in a perfect world, we wouldn't need any systems at all. Nice rose colored glasses you're wearing. Take them off and put on the brown ones, you might see the world differently.

I hear the brown ones give you pink eye!

 

[LeagueGuy]

Ooohh, please LeagueGuy! It is totally the failure of the system. The captain is only a small part of this system. If we lived in a perfect world, we wouldn't need any systems at all. Nice rose colored glasses you're wearing. Take them off and put on the brown ones, you might see the world differently.

Sorry but I happen to believe that the system works. If you have a team where 7 out of the 8 players go up in half a session then the idiot who put those players together in a 23 handicap league is the guy at fault. Not the system.

 

[jrt30004]

I hear the brown ones give you pink eye!

i thought brown ones gave you the stink eye

 

[jason]

Sorry but I happen to believe that the system works. If you have a team where 7 out of the 8 players go up in half a session then the idiot who put those players together in a 23 handicap league is the guy at fault. Not the system.

Let me just say this, any and all handicapping systems are flawed. Some are just more flawed than others. The BCA/VNEA do not have the problems the APA has. If you try to sandbag in these leagues, it is most likely to come back to burn you.

Sandbagging in the APA on the other hand, will play dividends if you're not caught. Sometimes a player is even punished in the APA, not for sandbagging, but for playing well over their ability.

Just imagine if we handicapped the NCAA tournament like we do the APA. Northern IOWA would have been moved immediately to a 7 (or a 1 seed) after beating Kansas. They would have been called every name in the book by the rest of the teams. The tournament directors would forced to make an incorrect judgement because of the pressure.

 

[LeagueGuy]

I don't even know how to respond to that other than that is the stupidest comment I have ever seen

 

[smoooothstroke]

can you add players

Just as a point of fact and real life example:

My apa 8b team started out this session @ 3 3 4 5 5 5 5 6
Currently that same team is handicapped. 4 4 5 6 6 6 6 6

As you can see, everyone except the intial 6 went up. In one freakin session! And these are established long time league players....half or so have a decade in....this team will be no more next session. Sucks.

I don't know if you can add a player but just pick up a begining player to play as a 2 and he or she will have lots of good coaching.

 

[cuesmith]

I don't even know how to respond to that other than that is the stupidest comment I have ever seen

Not nearly as bad as a league operator claiming that in 5 years he'd only had one team split up due to handicaps raising.

 

[jason]

Not nearly as bad as a league operator claiming that in 5 years he'd only had one team split up due to handicaps raising.

Isn't it strange how a lot of handicaps seem go up just before or during the Vegas time? I'll be damned if I ever took a team to Vegas and couldn't play because they raised us over the limit. Don't tell me I should have a 20 man roster either. If I win a trip for five to Vegas, I better be able to play all 5 no matter what.

 

[alstl]

I don't even know how to respond to that other than that is the stupidest comment I have ever seen

You obviously haven't been reading my comments. I've got dozens far more stupid than that.

 

[skiergirl55]

Wow. I mean, Wow.

I'm reading this trying to decide which one to join in May when new leagues start.

I read through most of this to page 12 before I became disillusioned by both the APA and BCA.........both of which are offered in my town. I don't want either one at this point.:frown:

I've heard from an APA player I met on Sunday night that I should not join BCA because ...and I quote...."they're really good players but snobby". For a beginner playing at a level 4 (his assessment of my playing after 4 games), and reading this, BCA cannot be for me. As someone said, "the team that picks an SL2 will be laughed out of the building". I am not feeling welcome hearing that.

On the other hand, APA seems like a bunch of drama queens all pissing in their oatmeal. And I don't want to be ripped away from a team I'm getting to know just because my game gets better. I don't want team members blowing games just to stay together, go to Vegas (who gives a rip about that??), or for any other bogus reason.

I've bowled on handicap leagues for years, and you never have to leave your team just because someone gets better. That's just so STUPID.

Maybe I'll just skip them both and spend my time and my quarters playing 4 night a week for fun. I can play a lot of 50 cent games for the price of league fees. Who needs the stress?

Thanks for giving me something to think hard about.

 

[cuesmith]

Wow. I mean, Wow.

I'm reading this trying to decide which one to join in May when new leagues start.

I read through most of this to page 12 before I became disillusioned by both the APA and BCA.........both of which are offered in my town. I don't want either one at this point.:frown:

I've heard from an APA player I met on Sunday night that I should not join BCA because ...and I quote...."they're really good players but snobby". For a beginner playing at a level 4 (his assessment of my playing after 4 games), and reading this, BCA cannot be for me. As someone said, "the team that picks an SL2 will be laughed out of the building". I am not feeling welcome hearing that.

On the other hand, APA seems like a bunch of drama queens all pissing in their oatmeal. And I don't want to be ripped away from a team I'm getting to know just because my game gets better. I don't want team members blowing games just to stay together, go to Vegas (who gives a rip about that??), or for any other bogus reason.

I've bowled on handicap leagues for years, and you never have to leave your team just because someone gets better. That's just so STUPID.

Maybe I'll just skip them both and spend my time and my quarters playing 4 night a week for fun. I can play a lot of 50 cent games for the price of league fees. Who needs the stress?

Thanks for giving me something to think hard about.

I've never played in the BCA League, by the time I finally got totally fed up with the APA numbers games I was burned out on the concept of league play. What I would suggest is checking around your area for weekly local tavern and pool room tournaments. At one time we had at least one tournament we could hit every night of the week, somewhere within about 30-45 minute drive. I found those tournaments to be much more enjoyable than league play. No sandbagging, everyone tried to win every match and there were seldom any disagreements or hard feelings. There was a group of regular players you'd see around here and there and a lot of comraderie among them. This scenerio is common all over the country, you just have to find it and try to fit in. Eventually you'll find your place in the pecking order and at that point, you can call yourself a "pool player"!

 

[Maniac]

Maybe I'll just skip them both and spend my time and my quarters playing 4 night a week for fun. I can play a lot of 50 cent games for the price of league fees. Who needs the stress?

NOBODY needs the stress.

Your comment on "spending your time and your quarters playing 4 nights a week for fun" is not a bad idea, with a little tweaking. Figure out about how much you would have spent on a typical night of league, add a few dollars to this amount, then find a player that plays about two balls better than you do and play him/her a race to 7 for the amount you came up with. You are going to lose your money on most nights (you would have paid league fees anyway), but you'll learn from watching this player. You will also get a minimum of 7 games in. But, the best part is, you won't have to sit in a chair for 4 hours watching other people play!!!

Think about it. If you have no problem finding a person to take your money every week, then you are all set. Sometimes it's hard to find people to play for cheap sets, but it's worth a try. When your game gets better, then you may want to join a league that you would feel comfortable in.

Maniac

 

[justadub]

Wow. I mean, Wow.

I'm reading this trying to decide which one to join in May when new leagues start.

I read through most of this to page 12 before I became disillusioned by both the APA and BCA.........both of which are offered in my town. I don't want either one at this point.:frown:

This is precisely why I suggested to you that you check out how the leagues run in your area. If you choose your potential future pool adventures based on what a few people on these boards say, you will miss out on a lot of possible fun.

Re the APA: you will find MANY people here who will bash it mercilessly, many who haven't played in it for years. Yet you will also find many of us who are quite satisfied with how the league runs in their particular part of the world. I am one of those folks.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you everyone else is full of it. I haven't experienced how things run where they live. Sadly, those folks will not grant that same tolerance to others; "it sucks here so it must suck everywhere, despite what some poeple on the forum say."

I find that many folks here percieve themselves to be extremely good players. If they are indeed at that level of play, then sure, APA probably isn't for them. My guess is that many are very good players, but not really better than many of the SL7's that play in APA every week. That is a whole other discussion. But you do need to realize that APA is for casual players, and beginners, and that yes, better players are welcome, but in order to make it as fair as possible to the newer players, there will be a handicapping system. ANY handicapping system can be manipulated by those who feel the need to cheat. ANY league that uses one will experience that. The more successful the league, the greater incidence of cheating. Those are the bad apples that make the whole thing look bad for everyone.

I can tell you from my personal experience as a newer player, that the APA has been really good for me. I get a chance to play regularly. I get to play with people who are much better than I am, and learn a lot. I get to compete, fairly. In my part of the world, there really isn't a lot of choice in competition, for a beginner. I'm in my second session with APA, and haven't seen any teams "break up" due the 23 rule. Yes, teams might have to shuffle a player or two around, but I think you will find that happens organically in most cases. Not everyone wants to play every session, or job/school/significant-other dictates that they can't. Some might get sick of it. And yes, for some, the numbers don't work. My team is getting close to that point. But I fully anticipate at least 1, and maybe up to 3 guys leaving after this session anyways, so it'll take care of itself. The ones who bellyache about this the most are the groups of friends who come into the league together, and probably already play at a very high level. If so, they gotta know this isn't gonna be the place for them. Yet they complain, despite knowing what the league is set up for.

The other league opportunities out there might be better for you. They might not be. Again, I ask you to check out how things run in those leagues locally to you, and not to base your decision on what people on the internet say. You have a lot to lose by not seeing things for yourself.

 

[skiergirl55]

Good advice, Mainiac and cuesmith. I'll think about that. From what I've seen of the APA league I watched play on Sunday, there is a LOT of standing around and waiting.

If I'm gonna be within touching distance of a table, I'd really rather be playing and watching a better player:grin:

 

[TCIndepMo]

What a great thread. Obviously some contributors know what they are talking about. And then there are the others. LOL.

Always been my understanding that the APA is designed to appeal to the lower and mid range skill level players. Of course the really good players are welcome but are constrained by the 23 RULE and the APA skill level system. That's the way the APA wants it.

There will always be more FOURS-FIVES and below on the planet than SIX and SEVEN level players. So the APA goes after the bigger slice of the market.

Approx 260,000 amateur players agreed last year.

If you don't - OK. There will always be other leagues out there. Enjoy.

 

[skiergirl55]

I watched an Apple league play tonight. Interesting. No handicap system, it's just game for game. Not for me, these guys were good.

 

[Maniac]

I watched an Apple league play tonight. Interesting. No handicap system, it's just game for game. Not for me, these guys were good.

There's still some old McIntosh's around ??? Interesting in itself !!!

Maniac

P.S. I guess down here in Texas they'd call it a Bar-B-Que league :thumbup:

 

[Scott Lee]

skiergirl55...You're admittedly new to pool, yet you are hooked by the mystery (and potential mastery) of it...like many of us. Do not believe all you hear about either APA or BCA. Make your OWN judgement call. You say you have both available to you, and you want to play, so why not join both leagues, for a session? That way you'll get a "birds-eye" view of both leagues, and how they're played in your area. You can then choose which you like better, stick with playing in both, or quit both...but it will be with your own experience, not the whining you hear from people who don't like it themselves.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Good advice, Mainiac and cuesmith. I'll think about that. From what I've seen of the APA league I watched play on Sunday, there is a LOT of standing around and waiting.

If I'm gonna be within touching distance of a table, I'd really rather be playing and watching a better player:grin: