All this talk about tight pockets.

[Raggedy Andy]

Re: Tight Pockets

I am in agrement with Glen about the cut angle determining the difficulty of pocketing balls on some tables. I've played on Connely tables that have BUCKETS.............but they are angled wide, and will reject some balls fired down the line. Same, and even more so, with Olhausen pro tables. Fire one down the rail...........and you might be in for a big surprise, even if you hit it well.

 

[TheBook]

If players want real tight pockets why don't they just use regular pool balls and play on a snooker table?

One problem though may be the that the rails will be too low for the larger balls.

Shouldn't there be a variety in pool like there is in golf courses? Why does everyone want every table to play the same?

NASCAR has different size tracks and configurations.

Baseball fields are all different.

Even though football, hockey, and basketball are restricted by regulation dimensions each field or court is different and plays different.

 

[ososlow]

Sounds just like a local room in MN, except the hack mechanic cant make two pockets the same one pocket trap


OR, maybe it's just a home court advantage thing, because if you get beat on ProCut 4 1/2" pockets you figure...well....if the pockets are tighter then maybe I'll have an advantage over the player....and will win more often.....that's called a "gaff" table in my book. It's really a common practice on one pocket tables...make the pockets soooooooooooo tight....I CAN'T lose

Glen[/QUOTE]

 

[realkingcobra]

Someone simply states that they like the way certain tables play and those tables happened to be done by someone else other than yourself. Knowing that you can't stand not getting all of the kudos you had to knock the table mechanic he mentioned and advise how great your work is over his by overwhelming customer response. :bow-down:

"If you can't have the compliment, no one can."...that's the comment when you gave me a "RED" rep...you're such a spoiled brat....grow up and be responsible why don't you.

Do you REALLY think I care about a RED rep from the likes of someone like you?:rotflmao1: I think that's my third red rep point in 3 1/2 years here on AZ...I'm moving on up the ladder

Glen, the "Realkingcobra"....like it or not buddy, YOU will never be as good a mechanic as I am

 

[1on1pooltournys]

I'm just curious as to how many of you that talk about tight pockets on your tables at home, even know what makes a pocket tight? Do you know the difference in pocket angles, and their effects? Do you understand the effects the down angle and facings have when pocketing balls? Every time I rebuild a table for someone all I'm doing is Diamondizing the table I guess that's why I was wondering is all Further more, do you guys understand the difference in the types of cushions, Artemis, Super-speed, Accufast...K66 & K55 profiles? Slate shelf effect? Do you understand the differences between 4" and 4 1/2" pockets? Would you believe, if I wanted to, that I can make a 4 1/4" pocketed table play tighter than a 4" pocketed table, meaning the 4 1/4" pockets would reject the balls more than a 4" pocket!

I think most everyone on here is a little lost on what makes a table tight to play on, so tell me what you know and lets see

Glen, the "realkingcobra"

It's the pocket angle and cuts...

 

[realkingcobra]

How about the fact that I've spent all day yesterday, as well as today teaching Clark, the owner of Malarkeys Pool & Brew....how to level the slates on his tables....and how to install the bed cloth on the beds of the tables......ALL WITHOUT ANY PAY!....yeah....I want all the kudos for my self kid, wow....when I grow up....I want to be just like YOU!

Glen

 

[Grilled Cheese]

If I opened up a room, to hell with the the players (no offense)...I would get tables with total slop buckets. I'd order them with 5 1/8" corners, no smaller than that. I want the mechanic to use really hard facings so the ball just dies and drops in the hole. Cover the tables with Simonis 760 for speed. And order "speed" cueballs.

I want the bangers to sink balls, get on runs and look good. That makes them feel good, and that's good for business. Pool rooms should take lessons from the casinos who are all about making sure you're in the best possible mood and feeling good while there. As far as playing conditions, take a page out of bowling's book. The pins these days at the bowling alleys are ridiculously easy to play on. Even a pathetic slow roll down the middle produces a strike more than 50% of the time. A total novice can put up strikes and the evening is more fun that way. Play with real pins, and the people who come to play a few times a year won't be able to make a spare let a alone a strike.


In my area, the players are absolutely the cheapest customers out there bar none. I don't even think they should be called customers. They are borderline loitering. They only show up for tournaments and they are in the tournaments to cash in as top priority as if it's their job. If the room owner is lucky, one of out 3 of them might, maybe buy a single bottle water for $1.25 the whole night. They aren't there to spend money, they are there to make money. Even the pathetically small tournament amounts. At night they won't show up on non-tournament nights because they don't want to pay the higher table rates. They'll frequent the pool room in town that has the cheapest day time rate to put in their practice.


The players that pay the bills are the bangers. It's the couples, the parties that come in guys and gals who want to play and have fun. Guys don't want to be rattling balls in all night long. They want to gun balls in. They want big explosive breaks. 760 and sewer pockets can make anyone's break look good. Balls can hit the 2nd diamond and still roll in. The 760 helps people with no stroke get more movement out of the balls. Ligher cueballs let the slightly more knowledgeable successfully achieve draw-shots, which is the THE shot that makes bangers feel like they are awesome.

I see these kind of people get all excited when one of them gets on a 4 ball run to finish off the game. Some are screaming, others cheering. They are drinking, having a good time.

I observe people very carefully. I can tell you for a fact, that people enjoy their night more and leave feeling better about the time they had on slop buckets than they do when they rent a Diamond Pro-Am. Tight tables frustrate bangers.

The bangers who come to play pool here and there with their girls will frequent the place that they played best at. This is a fact. These casual non-pool player types remember how they played better when they were at one place vs. another.


If I were a room owner, my target customer would be those types. They are the ones who rack up the larger liquor tabs. They are the ones that pump dollars into the juke. Who order food, who might also play darts after pool. Maybe also some video games or whatever. Those customers don't know nor have a clue or desire for "pro cut" Diamond tables, or to have the measles cueball or tournament blue cloth or anything else players like. Yet, some of you are talking about even smaller pockets (less than 4.5"). What is best for pool players, isn't always what is best for business.


Sorry, this isn't meant as a thread-jack, but Realkingcobra was talking about pocket size and playability and how it relates to the success of the business. This post is my $0.02 on the subject.

 

[realkingcobra]

If I opened up a room, to hell with the the players (no offense)...I would get tables with total slop buckets. I'd order them with 5 1/8" corners, no smaller than that. I want the mechanic to use really hard facings so the ball just dies and drops in the hole. Cover the tables with Simonis 760 for speed. And order "speed" cueballs.

I want the bangers to sink balls, get on runs and look good. That makes them feel good, and that's good for business. Pool rooms should take lessons from the casinos who are all about making sure you're in the best possible mood and feeling good while there. As far as playing conditions, take a page out of bowling's book. The pins these days at the bowling alleys are ridiculously easy to play on. Even a pathetic slow roll down the middle produces a strike more than 50% of the time. A total novice can put up strikes and the evening is more fun that way. Play with real pins, and the people who come to play a few times a year won't be able to make a spare let a alone a strike.


In my area, the players are absolutely the cheapest customers out there bar none. I don't even think they should be called customers. They are borderline loitering. They only show up for tournaments and they are in the tournaments to cash in as top priority as if it's their job. If the room owner is lucky, one of out 3 of them might, maybe buy a single bottle water for $1.25 the whole night. They aren't there to spend money, they are there to make money. Even the pathetically small tournament amounts. At night they won't show up on non-tournament nights because they don't want to pay the higher table rates. They'll frequent the pool room in town that has the cheapest day time rate to put in their practice.


The players that pay the bills are the bangers. It's the couples, the parties that come in guys and gals who want to play and have fun. Guys don't want to be rattling balls in all night long. They want to gun balls in. They want big explosive breaks. 760 and sewer pockets can make anyone's break look good. Balls can hit the 2nd diamond and still roll in. The 760 helps people with no stroke get more movement out of the balls. Ligher cueballs let the slightly more knowledgeable successfully achieve draw-shots, which is the THE shot that makes bangers feel like they are awesome.

I see these kind of people get all excited when one of them gets on a 4 ball run to finish off the game. Some are screaming, others cheering. They are drinking, having a good time.

I observe people very carefully. I can tell you for a fact, that people enjoy their night more and leave feeling better about the time they had on slop buckets than they do when they rent a Diamond Pro-Am. Tight tables frustrate bangers.

The bangers who come to play pool here and there with their girls will frequent the place that they played best at. This is a fact. These casual non-pool player types remember how they played better when they were at one place vs. another.


If I were a room owner, my target customer would be those types. They are the ones who rack up the larger liquor tabs. They are the ones that pump dollars into the juke. Who order food, who might also play darts after pool. Maybe also some video games or whatever. Those customers don't know nor have a clue or desire for "pro cut" Diamond tables, or to have the measles cueball or tournament blue cloth or anything else players like. Yet, some of you are talking about even smaller pockets (less than 4.5"). What is best for pool players, isn't always what is best for business.


Sorry, this isn't meant as a thread-jack, but Realkingcobra was talking about pocket size and playability and how it relates to the success of the business. This post is my $0.02 on the subject.

You are 100% correct!

 

[johnqbs]

tight pockets

I'm just curious as to how many of you that talk about tight pockets on your tables at home, even know what makes a pocket tight? Do you know the difference in pocket angles, and their effects? Do you understand the effects the down angle and facings have when pocketing balls? Every time I rebuild a table for someone all I'm doing is Diamondizing the table I guess that's why I was wondering is all Further more, do you guys understand the difference in the types of cushions, Artemis, Super-speed, Accufast...K66 & K55 profiles? Slate shelf effect? Do you understand the differences between 4" and 4 1/2" pockets? Would you believe, if I wanted to, that I can make a 4 1/4" pocketed table play tighter than a 4" pocketed table, meaning the 4 1/4" pockets would reject the balls more than a 4" pocket!

I think most everyone on here is a little lost on what makes a table tight to play on, so tell me what you know and lets see

Glen, the "realkingcobra"

glen: a good subject , yes i know the difference . i have played on the old
9 foot murry tables that has been a while back . if you did not make a clean shot it would not go , yes i not only believe you can make pockets
play harder that are wider , i know you can. less talk about makeing pockets 6 1/2" wide and play easy. that would be what i need.
i have got to get on the job for now
i can't quit my day job take care & have a good day
johnqbs: anderson sc

 

[realkingcobra]

glen: a good subject , yes i know the difference . i have played on the old
9 foot murry tables that has been a while back . if you did not make a clean shot it would not go , yes i not only believe you can make pockets
play harder that are wider , i know you can. less talk about makeing pockets 6 1/2" wide and play easy. that would be what i need.
i have got to get on the job for now
i can't quit my day job take care & have a good day
johnqbs: anderson sc

I say we just bolt on the head rail, leave all the rest of the rails off...and I'll play anyone in the world....if I get the first break:grin:

 

[realkingcobra]

Someone simply states that they like the way certain tables play and those tables happened to be done by someone else other than yourself. Knowing that you can't stand not getting all of the kudos you had to knock the table mechanic he mentioned and advise how great your work is over his by overwhelming customer response. :bow-down:

Here's some pictures to show you how much you don't know about me...and according to you....in need of all the "kudos"! This is Clark, the OWNER of Malarkey's Pool & Brew....learning how to work on his own tables, from leveling the slates, to trimming off the excess slate backer boards, to installing the bed cloths and finishing off the pockets. Now I ask you....since you THINK you're so smart...WHAT mechanic....in need of ALL the "KUDOS"...would train a room owner...to be able to recover his own tables?????????????????????...I'm out of a job at this pool room after all this is over









Do YOU...have any idea as to how many table mechanics there are out here that would love to spend this much time with me....learning how to do this kind of work?...Get out of my threads if you don't like them!

Glen

 

[Big Perm]

For the record, I like really tight pockets....just sayin :grin:

Nice pics Glen....

 

[TATE]

If I opened up a room, to hell with the the players (no offense)...I would get tables with total slop buckets. I'd order them with 5 1/8" corners, no smaller than that. I want the mechanic to use really hard facings so the ball just dies and drops in the hole. Cover the tables with Simonis 760 for speed. And order "speed" cueballs.

I want the bangers to sink balls, get on runs and look good. That makes them feel good, and that's good for business. Pool rooms should take lessons from the casinos who are all about making sure you're in the best possible mood and feeling good while there. As far as playing conditions, take a page out of bowling's book. The pins these days at the bowling alleys are ridiculously easy to play on. Even a pathetic slow roll down the middle produces a strike more than 50% of the time. A total novice can put up strikes and the evening is more fun that way. Play with real pins, and the people who come to play a few times a year won't be able to make a spare let a alone a strike.


In my area, the players are absolutely the cheapest customers out there bar none. I don't even think they should be called customers. They are borderline loitering. They only show up for tournaments and they are in the tournaments to cash in as top priority as if it's their job. If the room owner is lucky, one of out 3 of them might, maybe buy a single bottle water for $1.25 the whole night. They aren't there to spend money, they are there to make money. Even the pathetically small tournament amounts. At night they won't show up on non-tournament nights because they don't want to pay the higher table rates. They'll frequent the pool room in town that has the cheapest day time rate to put in their practice.


The players that pay the bills are the bangers. It's the couples, the parties that come in guys and gals who want to play and have fun. Guys don't want to be rattling balls in all night long. They want to gun balls in. They want big explosive breaks. 760 and sewer pockets can make anyone's break look good. Balls can hit the 2nd diamond and still roll in. The 760 helps people with no stroke get more movement out of the balls. Ligher cueballs let the slightly more knowledgeable successfully achieve draw-shots, which is the THE shot that makes bangers feel like they are awesome.

I see these kind of people get all excited when one of them gets on a 4 ball run to finish off the game. Some are screaming, others cheering. They are drinking, having a good time.

I observe people very carefully. I can tell you for a fact, that people enjoy their night more and leave feeling better about the time they had on slop buckets than they do when they rent a Diamond Pro-Am. Tight tables frustrate bangers.

The bangers who come to play pool here and there with their girls will frequent the place that they played best at. This is a fact. These casual non-pool player types remember how they played better when they were at one place vs. another.


If I were a room owner, my target customer would be those types. They are the ones who rack up the larger liquor tabs. They are the ones that pump dollars into the juke. Who order food, who might also play darts after pool. Maybe also some video games or whatever. Those customers don't know nor have a clue or desire for "pro cut" Diamond tables, or to have the measles cueball or tournament blue cloth or anything else players like. Yet, some of you are talking about even smaller pockets (less than 4.5"). What is best for pool players, isn't always what is best for business.


Sorry, this isn't meant as a thread-jack, but Realkingcobra was talking about pocket size and playability and how it relates to the success of the business. This post is my $0.02 on the subject.

The thread was actually about pocket size, pocket angle, and how pockets should be cut.

Unfortunately, I agree that real pool players don't make the best customers. Many of us have our own tables to practice on too - so we're basically casual customers. I shoot pool maybe twice a month in a pool room and I don't hang out. As a room owner, I would still have a quiet area with some tight tables and a viewing area for serious players.

Sal Butera has a jumping place out here in Moorpark. He only has 4 9' Diamonds tables and the rest of the place is packed with Diamond bar tables. The place is always jumping with APA leagues and stuff. and they're ordering drinks, beer, food etc.

Sal is an intelligent guy and set up the room for his target group - casual players and league players. He has an advantage because his equipment is always in tip top shape - it's really a great place for leagues and I bet he could use more room.

Chris

 

[realkingcobra]

It's always better to be to busy, than it is to be not busy enough more room does spread out the customers somewhat, but that don't always translate into more customers, but with more room comes more expenses

Glen

PS, rule of thumb, if you're tooo busy, either you don't have enough room...or you're not charging enough

 

[dr_dave]

For the users in this thread interested in how to measure and characterize how difficult a table plays, check out the new Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) thread.

I would appreciate any suggestions of feedback you might have regarding this new system.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[rexus31]

Who didn't know that...I know Ernesto plays on the same table, so...name some more

Corey Harper.

My table has 4"corner pockets at a 141 degree angle, 13 degree down angle. How does that rate? Not sure about the angle of the sides but they are 4 7/8" wide.