What is PRO ONE?
CTE aiming.
- Thread starter Geometry
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Thanks a lot for the reply, Stan. You don't post here very often so it's good to hear from you.
As I said in one of my earlier posts, most of my students are novices and intermediates who just want to be good enough to be competitive in the local arena, so there is never much need for me to get into discussions that are this "deep." As a matter of fact, most of them start getting antsy as soon as I start talking about inside-vs-outside english; so if I even get to the point of explaining the differences between back-hand and front-hand english, they'll all be looking for the door! In their defense, however, these people out here are struggling just to hang onto their jobs. They don't have the time, the money, or the inclination to pursue high levels of pool playing. So I can't say that I blame them when they come to me wanting the quickest, easiest, cheapest lessons I can provide.
Since I have never established myself as a professional player, I doubt that I will ever attract many advanced students. But If I EVER do get any that want to "go all the way;" I'm going to send them to you, Stan.
Roger
Pro One is an offspring if you will from CTE. Stan Shuffett learned CTE from Hal, but there was something that he (and several others) didnt really care for about CTE. Stan developed another way to use CTE that took care of what many who had learned CTE didnt like.
If you ever get the chance to visit Stan for a lesson not only will you learn a TON but you will have a blast in the process!
Woody
The pivot?
Hal often referred to CTE aiming as a professional one-angle aiming system. I discussed with Hal a name for what I was going to teach and he was okay with PRO ONE. Traditional CTE aiming does have one unnatural cue movement. When I discussed this with Hal, he indicated to me that a player could bring his cue in from one side all of the time. He specifically mentioned Bustamante. Hal did not give me exact details on how to procede with that technique. He did give me some clues, which is typical Hal, and with lots of work and consultation with Hal, PRO ONE became a viable system.
Please keep in mind that the one-angle aiming system refers to the mind's eye and what it sees. Hal always acknowledged the vast number of shots that can occur on the table.
-Stan Shuffett
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- How do you do steps 1 thru 4 for a thin 90 degree cut?
- Do you use the same 1 tip diameter if the CB and OB are 6 inches apart or 5 feet apart?
DR. DAVE??? Are not most Aiming System just a variation of the Ghost Ball System, with some tweeking? Like Fractional Aiming, is still Ghost Ball!
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Only if you make an adjustment after you're done with all of the offset and pivoting ceremony.
The reason is as follows: you made an initial coarse estimate of the cut angle (very coarse as a matter of fact), somewhere between 10 and 35 degrees. Everything you do after that is exactly the same, regardless of the specific cut angle at hand. Thus, if you're true to the procedure, and you hold the CB-OB distance relatively constant, for instance, it's clear that you're going to pocket only a small percentage of those shots.
There is nothing in heaven and earth urging the cueball to travel to the correct ghostball position, other than yourself. It would probably just as soon avoid the collision altogether and grab a quiet nap in one of the pockets. To inspire it to go to some desired location then, it must take its marching orders from the cue, which, in turn, receives them from you. The only information you've injected, sans any intuitive adjustment, is a crude estimate of that location. Waving the cue about like a magic wand does not make that information more precise, unless it is somehow tied to the correct ghostball position, which it isn't. You cannot, as they say, squeeze blood from a turnip.
In re-reading the discussions of CTE that Dr. Dave linked to earlier, there is definitely something which several of us could probably benefit from: a more disciplined and consistent procedure for determining the aim line. But does it have to be that elaborate when you're going to have use your judgment in the end anyway? I doubt it.
Jim
What makes this one different (and possibly flawed, I think dr. dave might argue) is that this system doesn't seem to take into account where the pocket is.
As I understand it, there are different tip offsets based on different cut angles (i.e. a 12 degree cut might offset one tip of outside, while a 50 degree cut might require one tip of inside). So knowing the cut angle means you sort of account for where the pocket is.
But the system seems lump together several angles into one category. It doesn't seem to treat a 50 degree cut differently from a 55 degree cut. If you rigidly stick to fixed tip offsets, then the system looks like it should fail. The 5 degree difference in cut should cause one ball to drop and the other to miss, unless the ball is pretty close to the hole.
I guess with experience and feel you're adjusting your pivot to account for the small difference, and the one-tip-offset rules aren't to be followed rigidly.
Another difference is that this focuses on where the tip is pointing relative to the object ball, and it doesn't really care about the cue ball. You're lining up the tip to different aiming points on the object ball. Something like the ghost ball doesn't really care where the tip is pointing, it just cares where the CB ends up at the moment of impact.
As I understand it, there are different tip offsets based on different cut angles (i.e. a 12 degree cut might offset one tip of outside, while a 50 degree cut might require one tip of inside). So knowing the cut angle means you sort of account for where the pocket is.
But the system seems lump together several angles into one category. It doesn't seem to treat a 50 degree cut differently from a 55 degree cut. If you rigidly stick to fixed tip offsets, then the system looks like it should fail. The 5 degree difference in cut should cause one ball to drop and the other to miss, unless the ball is pretty close to the hole.
I guess with experience and feel you're adjusting your pivot to account for the small difference, and the one-tip-offset rules aren't to be followed rigidly.
Another difference is that this focuses on where the tip is pointing relative to the object ball, and it doesn't really care about the cue ball. You're lining up the tip to different aiming points on the object ball. Something like the ghost ball doesn't really care where the tip is pointing, it just cares where the CB ends up at the moment of impact.
Some ambiguity here.
I get the whole no shift for half ball. On the shift for thin and thick are you rotating your cue into a center ball hit on the cb? When you pivot what do you look at when you stroke? Are you still looking at the outside edge of the ob? If so isn't your line of sight out of line with your cue? Won't this induce some BHE action? (kind of like when you veer off in the direction you are looking while driving) If you are keeping your LOS in line with the cue then perceptually you aren't aiming at the edge of the ob anymore.
Also, one tip of offset seems to be the cureall for cut angle. Is it really this simple or is there judgement involved? I don't see how one tip of offset can account for all cut angles between near right angle to just over halfball and just less than halfball to strait in.
I get the whole no shift for half ball. On the shift for thin and thick are you rotating your cue into a center ball hit on the cb? When you pivot what do you look at when you stroke? Are you still looking at the outside edge of the ob? If so isn't your line of sight out of line with your cue? Won't this induce some BHE action? (kind of like when you veer off in the direction you are looking while driving) If you are keeping your LOS in line with the cue then perceptually you aren't aiming at the edge of the ob anymore.
Also, one tip of offset seems to be the cureall for cut angle. Is it really this simple or is there judgement involved? I don't see how one tip of offset can account for all cut angles between near right angle to just over halfball and just less than halfball to strait in.
As I understand it:
- All shots are center CB - no English.
- A straight in shot is center of CB to center of OB as always.
- A 30 degree cut is the 1/2 OB as always.
Center to Edge (CTE), start with the Center of the CB aimed at the opposite edge of the OB away from the direction of the cut or pocket.
- Less than 30 degree cut to the left - move the shaft approx one tip away from the center of the CB in the direction of the right edge of the OB. Rotating, arching the tip back to the center of the CB. T
the cue will now be aiming somewhere between the center of the OB and the right Edge of the OB.
- More than 30 degree (90 degree) cut to the left - move the shaft approx one tip away from the center of the CB in the direction of the center of the OB. Rotating, arching the tip back to the center of the CB. The cue will now be aiming somewhere away from the right edge of the OB.
I guess you look at the CB to make sure you are hitting it at the center when you follow through.
What I don't get is that as the OB is farther away the cut becomes greater unless you shift less than one tip diameter etc.
If I was just beginning to shoot pool, it would be helpful, but I know where to aim for all shots and just get down on the shot directly. That's not to say that I have good technique for I move my bridge, body, cue and miss.
- All shots are center CB - no English.
- A straight in shot is center of CB to center of OB as always.
- A 30 degree cut is the 1/2 OB as always.
Center to Edge (CTE), start with the Center of the CB aimed at the opposite edge of the OB away from the direction of the cut or pocket.
- Less than 30 degree cut to the left - move the shaft approx one tip away from the center of the CB in the direction of the right edge of the OB. Rotating, arching the tip back to the center of the CB. T
the cue will now be aiming somewhere between the center of the OB and the right Edge of the OB.
- More than 30 degree (90 degree) cut to the left - move the shaft approx one tip away from the center of the CB in the direction of the center of the OB. Rotating, arching the tip back to the center of the CB. The cue will now be aiming somewhere away from the right edge of the OB.
I guess you look at the CB to make sure you are hitting it at the center when you follow through.
What I don't get is that as the OB is farther away the cut becomes greater unless you shift less than one tip diameter etc.
If I was just beginning to shoot pool, it would be helpful, but I know where to aim for all shots and just get down on the shot directly. That's not to say that I have good technique for I move my bridge, body, cue and miss.
Does that mean for CTE to work I already have to be good at aiming?
I'm always having trouble understanding these things and what they are supposed to accomplish. Is pro one a system that can help a beginner to learn how to aim, or is it a system that will help an A player become an A++ player?
I already know how to aim on most shots, but when I'm faced with a difficult shot I use a system known as "equal opposites". I imagine how much of the cueball has to hit the opposite part of the objectball. It's hard to explain without a diagram, but really easy to understand. And it never let me down. It can't, because it is geometrically correct every time. The only thing that can go wrong is that I'm not aligned to the shot properly or misjudgement when playing with english.
Does pro one more than showing you the correct line of aim?
Most players develop a fairly good sense of aim after 7 or 8 hundred hours of play (IMO). So, that's an upfront advantage for any student that's starting CTE aiming.
Aiming is typically not the problem. It's usually stroke delivery or conscious calculations about a specific aim that cause the misses.
There's too many shots to consciously figure them all out one at a time.
PRO ONE/CTE is a one angle system. The eyes sees one angle and the body follows with the shot.
As Hal once said.....I see no reason why a beginner can't start whackin' at 'em with CTE.
During one's regular practice, it's a good idea to make a study of aim. For example, I am glad that I spent a lot of time studying the quarters system.
Stan
The Secret is Out---Maybe?
In a post from The Secret of Pool
Originally Posted by renard
Not sure I wanna know the secret from you and play pool the rest of my days with ass weights!
D*** you - you guessed the secret. ----ArizonaPete
Stan,
The Secret has been let out. I didnt do it. Renard guessed it and Arizona Pete verified it. How in the world are we going to keep this underwraps!! I expect total chaos in the world of pool--soon. Everyone whipping up on everone else---total unobliterated mayhem---old ladies crying, children laughing. For some reason Im tingling. That ever happen to you? I read where a couple guys Roger and Dave were talking about it. You dont think thats catching do you? Whats the "VEPS"? Will it kill you if you catch it?
Im telling you there is trouble in River City and its spelled---Pool.
336robin
In a post from The Secret of Pool
Originally Posted by renard
Not sure I wanna know the secret from you and play pool the rest of my days with ass weights!
D*** you - you guessed the secret. ----ArizonaPete
Stan,
The Secret has been let out. I didnt do it. Renard guessed it and Arizona Pete verified it. How in the world are we going to keep this underwraps!! I expect total chaos in the world of pool--soon. Everyone whipping up on everone else---total unobliterated mayhem---old ladies crying, children laughing. For some reason Im tingling. That ever happen to you? I read where a couple guys Roger and Dave were talking about it. You dont think thats catching do you? Whats the "VEPS"? Will it kill you if you catch it?
Im telling you there is trouble in River City and its spelled---Pool.
336robin
... only if you scratch. You need to embrace the tingling sensation and let the visual intelligence permeate your pores.
Regards,
Dave
Yes, what you referred to is essentially the quarters system. That document has no relation to CTE.
That text, according to Hal, was soley for the purpose of satisfying another's need for an aiming system. Hal was throwing someone a curve ball. It is absolutely not CTE or even close.
That document has caused some confusion. Thanks for your reference to that material.
Stan
S n i p e !