CTE aiming.

[SpiderWebComm]

You can, however, add a pivot to the above Hal quote and you might have a little somethin-somethin.

 

[Koop]

That text, according to Hal, was soley for the purpose of satisfying another's need for an aiming system. Hal was throwing someone a curve ball. It is absolutely not CTE or even close.

Stan

LOFL...Hal would NEVER do such a thing :grin:

I spent 13 hours at a pool hall with Hal a few years back and he certainly has a sense of humor. He was lining me up with a SIMPLE shot, over and over, having me hit it just like he did. I was missing by a diamond and about the third time in a row he just couldn't contain the laughter anymore and burst into tears. He was hiding the pivot from me so there was no way I could make the shot he was having me shoot. It was pretty frickin hysterical, even at my own expense.

I miss Hal.

 

[stan shuffett]

... only if you scratch. You need to embrace the tingling sensation and let the visual intelligence permeate your pores.

Regards,
Dave

I guess that's funny.


Also, Landon was watching one of your videos the other day. Some learning occurred. Thanks for the good work on those videos.

Stan

 

[dr_dave]

Whats the "VEPS"? Will it kill you if you catch it?

... only if you scratch. You need to embrace the tingling sensation and let the visual intelligence permeate your pores.

I guess that's funny.

Sorry. This was an "inside joke" for people also reading the "Secret of Pool" thread. Here's a quote from that thread:

You must not have watched the VEPS series yet; because when you do, the "visual intelligence" (VI) automatically gets absorbed through your pores. That's why people report a tingling sensation on their skin when they view the discs. However, some people have trouble absorbing the full VI because they don't have faith, and they scratch their skin when it starts to tingle. You must have an open mind and resist the urge to scratch (especially in your buttocks region); otherwise, you will not receive the full VI benefit. The other thing you must do is say the acronym "VEPS" out loud during each shot. If you do, the ball will go in the hole ... no "air pivot" required, regardless of which of the hundred edges of the object ball you are using for sighting and alignment in the four-dimensional hyperspace. :grin-square:

Stan, I have heard good things about you as an instructor. I hope you don't take any of my joking-around personally. I am a CTE skeptic, but I do respect you as a top-notch instructor. (FYI, you're on my top instructors list under "JustCuetIt").

Also, Landon was watching one of your videos the other day. Some learning occurred. Thanks for the good work on those videos.

Thanks Stan. Please tell Landon to feel free to call or e-mail me if he has any questions about anything in VEPS. I wish him continued success with his already-great level of play.

Regards,
Dave

 

[stan shuffett]

In a post from The Secret of Pool

Originally Posted by renard

Not sure I wanna know the secret from you and play pool the rest of my days with ass weights!

D*** you - you guessed the secret. ----ArizonaPete


Stan,

The Secret has been let out. I didnt do it. Renard guessed it and Arizona Pete verified it. How in the world are we going to keep this underwraps!! I expect total chaos in the world of pool--soon. Everyone whipping up on everone else---total unobliterated mayhem---old ladies crying, children laughing. For some reason Im tingling. That ever happen to you? I read where a couple guys Roger and Dave were talking about it. You dont think thats catching do you? Whats the "VEPS"? Will it kill you if you catch it?

Im telling you there is trouble in River City and its spelled---Pool.

336robin

I am pretty sure that's funny.

Stan

 

[stan shuffett]

Sorry. This was an "inside joke" for people also reading the "Secret of Pool" thread. Here's a quote from that thread:Stan, I have heard good things about you as an instructor. I hope you don't take any of my joking-around personally. I am a CTE skeptic, but I do respect you as a top-notch instructor. (FYI, you're on my top instructors list under "JustCuetIt").

Thanks Stan. Please tell Landon to feel free to call or e-mail me if he has any questions about anything in VEPS. I wish him continued success with his already-great level of play.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate the justcueit link.

Stan

 

[336Robin]

CTE Aiming

Stan,
Ive heard all kinds of good things about your instruction. Just a jibe no harm intended. I will be careful to remain respectful. I just like to have a little fun but I can take it as well as I dish it out. Im not a CTE guy Ive got my own brand of poision when it comes to aim. Mostly a "DAM" guy with some of my own stuff I guess I could call them Robins Aiming Methods or the "RAM System"! You just RAM it to the pocket. Whoo Hoo!

There is definitely trouble in River City and its spelled---Pool.

336robin

 

[SpiderWebComm]

.....................

 

[Beer:30]

I am skeptical of the fact that CTE in the one tip sinks all form implies that shooting any shot could be described by a three step function?

 

[JoeyA]

Thanks a lot for the reply, Stan. You don't post here very often so it's good to hear from you.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, most of my students are novices and intermediates who just want to be good enough to be competitive in the local arena, so there is never much need for me to get into discussions that are this "deep." As a matter of fact, most of them start getting antsy as soon as I start talking about inside-vs-outside english; so if I even get to the point of explaining the differences between back-hand and front-hand english, they'll all be looking for the door! In their defense, however, these people out here are struggling just to hang onto their jobs. They don't have the time, the money, or the inclination to pursue high levels of pool playing. So I can't say that I blame them when they come to me wanting the quickest, easiest, cheapest lessons I can provide.

Since I have never established myself as a professional player, I doubt that I will ever attract many advanced students. But If I EVER do get any that want to "go all the way;" I'm going to send them to you, Stan.

Roger

As always Roger, you show a lot of class.
JoeyA

 

[CreeDo]

just so you know spidey, your efforts aren't totally wasted. I read the post about ever-changing perspective before you killed it and decided to give CTE (what little I know) another look at the pool hall when I play next.

 

[dr_dave]

.....................

Spidey,

Why did you remove your post? I honestly thought the edited diagram created more questions than answers, but your description did provide a useful starting point for further discussion. I also appreciated the effort you put into the post.

Here's my original question, rephrased a little, in case people want to discuss it further:

from my November '08 article​

First, when aiming shot "A," what initial alignment do you use, and how much do you pivot to pocket the ball (i.e., to what point are you pivoting, and what "effective pivot length" are you using)?

With shot "D," the CB and OB are both shifted down-table by the same small amount (a few inches). The CB and OB are still the same distance apart and are still both on the center-line of the table. The only thing different is the amount of cut needed ... you need a little more cut for shot "D" compared to shot "A" (otherwise, you miss the pocket). What do you do differently with your initial alignment and/or pivot with shot "D" compared to shot "A," and how does CTE help you judge the necessary change in cut.

I hope you and other CTE proponents think these questions are fair and clear. To me, the answer to these questions are key to truly understand and effectively use CTE, Pro-One, 90/90, or any pivot-based system.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Roger Long]

As always Roger, you show a lot of class.
JoeyA

Well, thanks, Joey! I try to pattern myself after you. :thumbup:

Roger

 

[LAMas]

Dr_D,
I agree that there is more to CTE than anyone has explained.
I think that the parallel shift of the shaft by 1 diameter results in only one cut angle as the diagram shows.

I believe that a fractional shift (less than one diameter, depending on how far from the CB the bridge hand is placed) will result in being able to cut all of the necessary angles.

My personal preference is, as said before, to use double the distance, and the ghost ball.

I await the answer/s to your question with interest.

Thanks for persisting.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I killed it because I'm working on another diagram that's better. The last one was too hard to understand, imo.

Your vision's 12:00 line never changes but the table and balls' alignments always change based on perspective. Depending on what's your central focus, everything moves around that point: the pocket, either the CB/OB, everything.

Dave

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What's the difference between these two pictures?

Example 1:

Example 2:

 

[LAMas]

The table in the 2nd pic is rotated.
How does this help me make a thin 90 degree cut?

 

[dr_dave]

Dr_D,
I agree that there is more to CTE than anyone has explained.
I think that the parallel shift of the shaft by 1 diameter results in only one cut angle as the diagram shows.

I believe that a fractional shift (less than one diameter, depending on how far from the CB the bridge hand is placed) will result in being able to cut all of the necessary angles.

A fractional pivot is one possible approach to achieve all cut angles. Another possible approach is to vary the "effective pivot length." This diagram from my December '08 BD article shows how you can achieve radically different cuts with the same alignment (90/90) and same pivot (to the CB center) if you vary the pivot length:

One way to do this is to vary the bridge length (as implied by the diagram). Another is to shift or deform your bridge hand during the pivot. Here's an example of this, posted by Colin a while back:

The other way is to "pivot in air" before placing the bridge hand down, but pivoting the right amount is obviously critical.

The difficulty is in knowing how much to pivot or knowing what "effective pivot length" to use for the necessary cut angle of the shot. This is what takes lots of practice and judgment. I think DAM is still a much simpler approach; although, it takes practice also. Regardless of which "aiming system" you use (even if it is: "just see the angle"), you need to practice to develop and improve your "visual intelligence" and you need to actually focus on aiming the shot. "Aiming systems" can help some people do this (for more info, see benefits of "aiming systems").

Regards,
Dave

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The table in the 2nd pic is rotated.
How does this help me make a thin 90 degree cut?

The table isn't rotated. It's sitting on the floor, in your basement. Nobody moved the table. It's too heavy to rotate without movers. Keep brainstorming.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

A fractional pivot is one possible approach to achieve all cut angles. Another possible approach is to vary the "effective pivot length." This diagram from my December '08 BD article shows how you can achieve radically different cuts with the same alignment (90/90) and same pivot (to the CB center) if you vary the pivot length:

One way to do this is to vary the bridge length (as implied by the diagram). Another is to shift or deform your bridge hand during the pivot. Here's an example of this, posted by Colin a while back:

The other way is to "pivot in air" before placing the bridge hand down, but pivoting the right amount is obviously critical.

The difficulty is in knowing how much to pivot or knowing what "effective pivot length" to use for the necessary cut angle of the shot. This is what takes lots of practice and judgment. I think DAM is still a much simpler approach; although, it takes practice also. Regardless of which "aiming system" you use (even if it is: "just see the angle"), you need to practice to develop and improve your "visual intelligence" and you need to actually focus on aiming the shot. "Aiming systems" can help some people do this (for more info, see benefits of "aiming systems").

Regards,
Dave

You never (for the gazillionth time Dr Dave) adjust your bridge length unless the CB/OB distance is less than your bridge length. Your bridge doesn't deform. The shaft rotates around your middle finger versus spinning on top of it. The grainy video you love to refer to above doesn't show that well, but that's what's happening.

While you're at it.... tell me the difference between the two pictures I posted above. Let's stick with that for a while.