CTE aiming.

dr_dave said:
Net deflection (the combination of squirt and swerve, AKA squerve) varies a lot with shot speed and distance, cue elevation, conditions, and the amount and type of spin and English. You can certainly make BHE "work" for any bridge length provided you have good understanding or "feel" for all of the effects, and provided you adjust the right things the right amounts for the right shots. Good players (like it sounds like you are) can do this instinctively, based on lots of practice and experience (i.e., lots of missed shots in the past).

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

This is where I respectfully disagree with you. I understand the point about "squerve" variance with conditions and all. But in practice, as Dave has said many many times and as I also say, we approach every shot the same way. We aim it the same, we apply BHE the same and sometimes our bridge is long and sometimes it's short and we don't adjust based on that.

In my video I show you shots where I am bridging a half cue stick away from the cue ball.

I promise you that prior to making that little video I NEVER EVER attempted to make a shot like that with that long of a bridge. That's what bridge sticks are for.

I also don't normally get within a few inches of the cue ball with my bridge hand but I did for the purpose of the video.

I am certain that the results I had can be duplicated on just about any table with no change in my approach to the shot.

In this case there was no instinct based on missed shots to go on.

I submit that "instinct" is way overrated in pool. If a player is fortunate enough to be able to see and drop in on the right line without learning any particular aiming system then they are very lucky and hopefully they can master all the other aspects that go with aiming to reach championship level.

I was one of those people who had plenty of "missed ball" training - I was a member or the million balls club and still had trouble with a lot of shots. After learning Hal's Quarters System (my name for it) my game went up two balls over night. Those trouble shots vanished in one week.

While I agree that experience hones instinct experience alone cannot replace bad mechanics. I had plenty of battle hardened experience playing pool and practicing pool. What I didn't have was the ability to get on the right line every time. So I could have hit two million more balls and still been highly inconsistent in my pocketing, especially with the thin cuts and seemingly impossible shots.

Using a system that puts me on the right line coupled with BHE has elevated my game tremendously. I routinely make shots that are considered tough and low percentage, and really they were super low percentage ones for me. As for thinking about my bridge length and the pivot point of my cue and the speed of the shot as relates to how much deflection will be there - I don't.

And it's not because my instincts have been honed from missing a bunch of balls in the past.

It's because I have a repeatable and reliable way to aim and apply spin that works and allows me to treat each shot as almost exactly the same.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Hey guys, here's what I'll do. I'll deliver a webinar on CTE and the mechanics involved. I'll deliver it pro-like with PPT and nice live video. I'll charge $50/person (via paypal). I'll only do it if there are at least 10 people interested. Otherwise, I'll keep responding to these posts until I get bored of it.

Here's how I'll use the money:

25% me (only because I'd put my time in to do this first-class)
75% Donate to Sunny and Hal for changing our lives with this information. Nothing would make me happier than showing up with an envelope full of $ and handing it to Hal and surprising him.

PM me if interested.
Dave
Click to expand...

I am in. Where do I send the money?

Even though I feel that I have a pretty good grasp on CTE right now I will support any of your efforts to bring this to more people and especially if it involves helping Hal Houle.
 
JB-

I never said the bridge doesn't matter with bhe-- it def does. That's why my bridge length is what it is--- it's calibrated to the best of my ability to my cue. Knowing that, if I have to "hold" a shot from a steep angle, I'll shorten my bridge a few inches, aim INTO the ball and pivot to outside. I'm missing the ball on purpose during my alignment and setup and use the shortened bridge and BHE to swerve the ball purposefully. But, that's a "tool" per se, not a constant rule.

I hit nearly every shot hard as hell. That's prob why I literally never have issues with swerve. The CB gets there instantly and the ball's already in the hole.

Dave
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Hey guys, here's what I'll do. I'll deliver a webinar on CTE and the mechanics involved. I'll deliver it pro-like with PPT and nice live video. I'll charge $50/person (via paypal). I'll only do it if there are at least 10 people interested. Otherwise, I'll keep responding to these posts until I get bored of it.

Here's how I'll use the money:

25% me (only because I'd put my time in to do this first-class)
75% Donate to Sunny and Hal for changing our lives with this information. Nothing would make me happier than showing up with an envelope full of $ and handing it to Hal and surprising him.

PM me if interested.
Dave
Click to expand...

You're PM'd
 
SpiderWebComm said:
JB-

I never said the bridge doesn't matter with bhe-- it def does. That's why my bridge length is what it is--- it's calibrated to the best of my ability to my cue. Knowing that, if I have to "hold" a shot from a steep angle, I'll shorten my bridge a few inches, aim INTO the ball and pivot to outside. I'm missing the ball on purpose during my alignment and setup and use the shortened bridge and BHE to swerve the ball purposefully. But, that's a "tool" per se, not a constant rule.

I hit nearly every shot hard as hell. That's prob why I literally never have issues with swerve. The CB gets there instantly and the ball's already in the hole.

Dave
Click to expand...

I didn't say that you did say that. What you have said that I was attributing to you is the fact that you approach the shot the same way each time or nearly enough to the same way. Remember the idea that it's all subconscious adjustment that was floated?

For me, I don't have my bridge length deliberately calibrated to my cue. I suppose that it would get there naturally though or I'd be missing balls all over the place.

I was just saying that in my personal experience the bridge length doesn't seem to matter.

In my shop for example I have a dozen cues sitting there to play with. Because of my job I get to have a lot of prototype shafts to test. So when I play I just pick up the cue and start shooting. I don't try to find the pivot point. I find that within minutes I can figure a cue out and play fine with it for the most part.

So I understand that there is a definite pivot point for every cue that is just perfect for BHE as shown in Dr. Dave's video. I just don't think that it matters all that much to know exactly where that is when using a system like CTE and BHE. However, I will say that I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time and I am willing to pony up the money to take the lessons and learn what I can. I am pretty sure that besides Hal no one on Earth has put in as much though about CTE as you have.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm
I think you guys are reading the Dr. Dave page. Offset your tip 1/2 ball with your cue parallel to the CTEL with your tip pointing at nothing at all. If you point at the OB edge, it's 100% not parallel to the CTEL. Pivot along the arc and re-think. It's physically impossible to be at a 1/2 ball hit unless you're bridging on the CTEL itself.

Is this 1/2 Ball offset to the side - parallel to CTEL?



CTE_OFFSET.jpg
 
LAMas said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm
I think you guys are reading the Dr. Dave page. Offset your tip 1/2 ball with your cue parallel to the CTEL with your tip pointing at nothing at all. If you point at the OB edge, it's 100% not parallel to the CTEL. Pivot along the arc and re-think. It's physically impossible to be at a 1/2 ball hit unless you're bridging on the CTEL itself.

Is this 1/2 Ball offset to the side - parallel to CTEL?



View attachment 134565
Click to expand...

The quote you quoted says that it is...
 
LAMas said:
Thanks for the confirmation - a picture is worth a thousand posts.:smile:
Now if I can extract where to aim other than 1/2 Ball for the other cut angles like 80, 70, 60 ,50 and 40 degrees.
Click to expand...

If you have to do that, then something is off. Should be 1/2 ball for those shots as well.
 
Yeah, can't keep away from the thread. Here's a quick little public apology to Spidey for the mini-flame earlier:
"Sorry dude!"
(we've been chatting in PM. Spidey's alright. I pegged him wrong)

=========

What I'm getting from that pic is:

1. Find the contact point that sends the ball into the pocket (hey, what's that smell? It smells like... a ghost ball!) ...finally, something that takes into account for where the pocket is. THAT'S where you find the one "edge" in CTE that you need for this shot.

2. Draw a line through that edge to the center of the CB. Temporarily plant your bridge and aim your stick along this line. You're on the CTE line. For now.

3. Shift your bridge sideways, parallel to this CTE line, exactly half a ball width. That's 1.21875 inches. You are now aiming through the edge of the CB (was center, pre-shift) to the center of the OB (was edge, pre-shift).

4. Pivot along your bridge to aim at the perceived center of the CB from this new shooting perspective.

5. Shoot.

Something about this clicks for me mentally. Maybe because we finally have a ghost ball that accounts for where the pocket is. I was getting hung up before on how the system didn't seem to know or care where the pocket is.

I dunno if that diagram is true CTE or if spidey will acknowledge it as such. I think spidey condenses steps 3 and 4 into a single pivot with no moving bridge. Maybe just plants directly onto bridge location 2. I dunno how much I'd need to 'tweak' the pivoting part. But whatever this is, it looks like it could have potential. Gonna try it at the pool hall tonight.
 
CreeDo said:
Yeah, can't keep away from the thread. Here's a quick little public apology to Spidey for the mini-flame earlier:
"Sorry dude!"
(we've been chatting in PM. Spidey's alright. I pegged him wrong)

=========

What I'm getting from that pic is:

1. Find the contact point that sends the ball into the pocket (hey, what's that smell? It smells like... a ghost ball!) ...finally, something that takes into account for where the pocket is. THAT'S where you find the one "edge" in CTE that you need for this shot.

2. Draw a line through that edge to the center of the CB. Temporarily plant your bridge and aim your stick along this line. You're on the CTE line. For now.

3. Shift your bridge sideways, parallel to this CTE line, exactly half a ball width. That's 1.21875 inches. You are now aiming through the edge of the CB (was center, pre-shift) to the center of the OB (was edge, pre-shift).

4. Pivot along your bridge to aim at the perceived center of the CB from this new shooting perspective.

5. Shoot.

Something about this clicks for me mentally. Maybe because we finally have a ghost ball that accounts for where the pocket is. I was getting hung up before on how the system didn't seem to know or care where the pocket is.

I dunno if that diagram is true CTE or if spidey will acknowledge it as such. I think spidey condenses steps 3 and 4 into a single pivot with no moving bridge. Maybe just plants directly onto bridge location 2. I dunno how much I'd need to 'tweak' the pivoting part. But whatever this is, it looks like it could have potential. Gonna try it at the pool hall tonight.
Click to expand...

I think if you do step 4 that way then step 5 won't work. Something is backwards...
 
CreeDo said:
Yeah, can't keep away from the thread. Here's a quick little public apology to Spidey for the mini-flame earlier:
"Sorry dude!"
(we've been chatting in PM. Spidey's alright. I pegged him wrong)

=========

What I'm getting from that pic is:

1. Find the contact point that sends the ball into the pocket (hey, what's that smell? It smells like... a ghost ball!) ...finally, something that takes into account for where the pocket is. THAT'S where you find the one "edge" in CTE that you need for this shot.

2. Draw a line through that edge to the center of the CB. Temporarily plant your bridge and aim your stick along this line. You're on the CTE line. For now.

3. Shift your bridge sideways, parallel to this CTE line, exactly half a ball width. That's 1.21875 inches. You are now aiming through the edge of the CB (was center, pre-shift) to the center of the OB (was edge, pre-shift).

4. Pivot along your bridge to aim at the perceived center of the CB from this new shooting perspective.

5. Shoot.

Something about this clicks for me mentally. Maybe because we finally have a ghost ball that accounts for where the pocket is. I was getting hung up before on how the system didn't seem to know or care where the pocket is.

I dunno if that diagram is true CTE or if spidey will acknowledge it as such. I think spidey condenses steps 3 and 4 into a single pivot with no moving bridge. Maybe just plants directly onto bridge location 2. I dunno how much I'd need to 'tweak' the pivoting part. But whatever this is, it looks like it could have potential. Gonna try it at the pool hall tonight.
Click to expand...

While your down there, try this and you can figure out some of the other cut angles as well. That said, when the OB is down 8 feet away, the OB appears to be very small and the aim spot gets very tight - what I found.
Good luck.
CTE-CUT_45.jpg
 
Lamas-

I don't quite follow your diagram. I'm not sure how the bridge is on one side and the pivot point is on the other side. The bridge should be in one place and the pivot point is behind it.

The cue tip never points at any part of the OB ball ever pre-pivot, imo. Not unless someone is doing some strange variant. That's the part that is not making sense in your diagram.

Anyways, I prob have 5 people who wanna do a webinar. If I can get 5 more - - I'll invest the time to do some nice diagrams and we'll stream live video. (see my earlier post about this)

Dave
 
Hey Spidey, webinar sounds interesting... One thing I found out while looking at YOUR diagrams, is that they pertain to right handers. I read where you said lefties will do opposite, I am a lefty, and I ignored that important point. So any lefties struggling out there... It still takes me a while sometimes to line up a shot, and if I miss, it is usually my OLD STYLE telling me to correct what doesn't need correcting.
 
Elephant Man said:
Hey Spidey, webinar sounds interesting... One thing I found out while looking at YOUR diagrams, is that they pertain to right handers. I read where you said lefties will do opposite, I am a lefty, and I ignored that important point. So any lefties struggling out there... It still takes me a while sometimes to line up a shot, and if I miss, it is usually my OLD STYLE telling me to correct what doesn't need correcting.
Click to expand...

Ditto as I'm a lefty too.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Hey guys, here's what I'll do. I'll deliver a webinar on CTE and the mechanics involved. I'll deliver it pro-like with PPT and nice live video. I'll charge $50/person (via paypal). I'll only do it if there are at least 10 people interested. Otherwise, I'll keep responding to these posts until I get bored of it.

Here's how I'll use the money:

25% me (only because I'd put my time in to do this first-class)
75% Donate to Sunny and Hal for changing our lives with this information. Nothing would make me happier than showing up with an envelope full of $ and handing it to Hal and surprising him.

PM me if interested.
Dave
Click to expand...
Man, I've been waiting for this day to come!

Jim
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Anyways, I prob have 5 people who wanna do a webinar. If I can get 5 more - - I'll invest the time to do some nice diagrams and we'll stream live video. (see my earlier post about this)

Dave
Click to expand...

Please make a new thread about this. I am sure that others would be interested but may not be reading this continuing discussion.
 
Holy heck, I can't believe I've made it through this whole thread. It's taken four or five days reading 20 minutes / session.

Just FWIW, I'm an aim by feel, middle of the road player. I hate, make that *HATE* math, but I can sight angles and mid points extremely well. I can walk up to any wall space and drive a nail centered to within an inch or so.

I've tried the CTE from the original video, and there are times when it definitely works for me. I most often use it for thin cuts, especially through traffic. It's like that extra arsenal weapon, that when my brain is unsure, or not confident on the shot, or it just looks too extreme, I can't tell you how many times I've simply dropped on line one tip to the inside, pivot to center and shoot. Just like in the video "split the pocket."

Like I said, I don't use it as a system, but I do use it in certain circumstances (cuts > 45 degrees) and it works impressively well.

Not pro or con and no horses staked in this race, just tellin' my experience.
 
Dave -- Suppose I don't use CTE. I have a shot that's dead "on" with a half-ball hit, cutting the OB to the right. The OB is a long way from the pocket, so the shot requires a precise hit. If I bridge on the CTEL and I hit straight through the center of the CB, aiming at the left edge of the OB, the shot "goes."

Now, let's do it with CTE. Suppose I shoot it as a thick cut. I bridge to the left of the CTEL, such that my cue is parallel to the CTEL and pointing at the CB's outside edge. Then I pivot back to the center of the CB and shoot. Aren't I going to undercut the OB?

Suppose I shoot it as a thin cut. I bridge to the right of the CTEL, such that my cue is parallel to the CTEL and pointing at the CB's inside edge. Then I pivot back to the center of the CB and shoot. Aren't I going to overcut the OB?

The bridge location I need is on the CTEL, but CTE doesn't put it there.

What's the missing ingredient?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top