Whitten cases made in china

[CocoboloCowboy]

I will say this I think his case is an amazing hand crafted case BUT if the sole reason he went to China was because it is cheaper I wouldnt purchase it. Im not saying I wont buy any thing Chineese made but I will not support a company that went overseas just to save a buck

John Barton as I understand it work for a US Company as their man in CHINA, where some item they sell are manufactured. JB Cases, as I understand it is John Baby, and as he live in CHINA FULL TIME, his case get built there.

BTW I drive a KIA, and it is one of the BEST CARS I have own, and it was MADE in Korea, and was a great value!

 

[fastford]

as stated before I have no problem with products from over seas its when a company starts here then heads overseas just to save a buck

 

[jay helfert]

I'm not expert on Economics but I did study Business in college and I did pay attention enough to know one very important thing. Ultimately, the CONSUMER sets the marketplace! Yes, the buck stops with us! Not the manufacturer, not the importer, not the end dealer. It is up to each of us to do our due diligence before purchasing an item. There are many avenues available to assist us, such as Consumer Reports.

If we don't buy the product (whatever it is), that will directly affect the manufacturer who is making the product. No sales means no business. The basics of Economics are all about "Supply and Demand." If there is a demand for a product the price goes up, and so does manufacturing. If there is no demand the price drops, and production falls off. This applies to sales of anything, from houses to cars to soap.

It is our individual choice whether we buy an American made product or a similar one made in China. There is a reason why Toyota and Lexus have out stripped the comparable American made cars. A better car at a better price. But it took several years to ascertain this fact. Now it is common knowledge. That is true despite the problems Toyota has had with sticking gas pedals.

Like the man who bought the China made wire strippers and not the Kleins. He should have known better. I never buy a tool for one time use only. It stays in my tool box after that use. Now he will tell everyone he knows about the inferior wire stripper (so will others) and sales will go down. Eventually you may not see this product on our shelves. If it doesn't sell, the dealers don't want it.

So it is ultimately up to us. We DRIVE the marketplace! Not the Chinese factories or the Chinese government. Same applies for any other manufacturer, either here or abroad. Do your homework and read the fine print.

All that said, counterfeiting remains a big problem. And that's why we have several layers of enforcement to make efforts to protect the original manufacturers. Unfortunately it doesn't always stop them. The problem is just too big. I just saw where millions of dollars of counterfeit sunglasses were seized in Los Angeles harbor. Sometimes they catch them and sometimes they don't.

 

[Quesports]

Made in America!

I am REALLY happy that my cues are in a Jim Murnak and not a look a like Jim Murnak! Everytime one of these threads comes up I like my Murnak even more.. I like my Ford too..
JMO

 

[JB Cases]

JB;

I can't speak for Joe but I will say for myself that you are a real piece of work. You hope I can find it within myself to broaden my views? Give me a break! My views are my views and your rambling "see them from outer space" posts have not changed them.

I didn't think for a second that I changed your views. As I said I hope that you can broaden yours someday.

Is that a circular thinking, red herring sliding down a slippery slope directly into the path of a straw man? They have all appeared in your responses on this thread in one form or another. You are continually obfuscating and word flipping. You can't win the minds of intelligent people with sheer volume - there has to be some substance mixed in.

Aside from the fact that this sentence of yours itself is a red herring, "Is that a circular thinking, red herring sliding down a slippery slope directly into the path of a straw man?" which is intended to invalidate everything I have said, are you certain that there is no substance in my posts? Are you absolutely certain that intelligent people don't agree me? Or are you you saying that only stupid people agree with me?

A perfect example of bad logic: You asked me to look around my house and do an inventory of all of the items here that were made in China that haven't failed or harmed me? Your point being what; that since the majority of products I own from China haven't broken or hurt me yet, that there is no problem with Chinese goods? Are you kidding? That's like saying there is no murder problem in Juarez, Mexico because the majority of the people there have not been killed.. Try comforting the families of the hundreds already murdered there, just this year alone, with your flawed logic.

No, I was saying that good outweighs the bad, by a long shot. I never said that there isn't a problem. Not once. By your logic one murder means that there are murders everywhere, an epidemic of murder.

Of course for the victims of any crime it's not any comfort to know that statistically they still had less chance of being victims than say 50 or 100 years ago. For you having to get back in your car and drive back to Home Depot all pissed off because the wire strippers you bought strip less than Chastity at the local club it's no comfort to know that the 99 other people who bought the same model from the same store that day had no problem with them.

So if you are going to attack me from the victim's perspective then I obviously have no counter argument that will satisfy you.

So go ahead an make "CHINA" the scapegoat for all the world's evils. If that's the view you choose to hold then live that life.

When I pointed out the problem I encountered with a Predator shaft, you responded that we, the end users, are supposed to measure our cue joints and supply that info to the dealer so we can get a good fit. That, JB, is pure nonsense. There is a standard joint-size and the Chinese made predators weren't meeting that standard on too many of their shafts.

Really? What is the Standard Joint Size? I think I missed the cue makers meeting where they all agreed to one.

In my whole life I have never once seen or heard of a standard joint size. Now as a case maker I know that joints are typically ABOUT the same size but I have never known them to be exact.

In fact this is exactly why most cue makers will tell you that to have a new shaft match the butt it is best to send it in.

Anyway, I don't want to go to far away from the question,

WHAT IS THE STANDARD JOINT SIZE?

With all due respect to your vast experience, I must defer to the lady at Neillson who told me, first-hand, that she noticed a decline in quality to the extent that she has to use a caliper to weed out the odd-sized ones. At that time they had hundreds of predator shafts in stock and they are, as I'm sure you know, a fairly big volume seller. I guess there's a reason why many players seek out the 1st generation shafts. :wink:

Well gee, that's awfully funny because at one time we also sold Predators and we sold lots and lots and lots of them and I don't recall that we ever put calipers on each one to "weed them out".

Of course if someone were to ask us for a particular joint size we would go back with calipers and measure them for the customer just to be sure that we got as close as possible.

If I were Kathy Nielson, "the lady at Niesons", then I'd be highly pissed off that Predator Products was making me their quality control department. I will have to check with her and Joe Nielson to find out the story on this.

You want to bet me lunch at next year's SBE that you can find a made in China wire stripper that is better quality than the US made Kleins.

See, there you go with the red herrings again. I didn't say better quality. I said better than what you bought and possibly as good as the Kleins.

While I don't believe that you can, how does this help me or any one else here in the US? We don't have someone on the ground in China acting as our personal shoppers. What our stores are flooded with is the crap from China, not the better than Klein-tool quality items, if they even exist.

It doesn't help you. You missed my point in that segment however. So I will restate it for you.

It's not "CHINA" that is foisting these low quality tools on you. It's the importer because in "CHINA" you can buy good quality tools. If the importer wants to provide you with a set of wire strippers that is as good as the American made ones then they can.

I saw that "Fastford" came on this thread in a one-line post stating his opinion that he prefers not to do business with companies who use Chinese labor since it takes away American jobs. He was met with a nearly fifty line response from you. :bash: I say,Easy Tiger!

That's right because as you stated it's not about the volume it's about the content and that one line was inflammatory and thin on the real economics involved.

Since you kept alluding to it, you were asked how many times they (unscrupulous/corrupt Chinese) got a bullet to the head. Your response started off: "Let's look at a hypothetical". Your answer should have been something like '4,627' or '3' or 'I don't know' ; not "Let's look at a hypothetical". There ain't nothing hypothetical about a bullet to the head. The man asked a fair question - he got a pretty story instead of an answer.

I don't know the answer. I am sure that the Chinese government publishes some data on crime and sentencing but I have no way to verify it even if I find it.

I find it funny though that you would allow Joe to make assumptions and yet criticize me for not providing hard data to challenge those assumptions. As if a number mattered. Here are two numbers for you that you can look up on Google.

1 - this is the number of high ranking bureaucrats that I know for a fact were executed for taking bribes which allowed companies to get around safety rules and thus endanger lives in 2009. This was the head of the Chinese equivalent of the FDA. Ironically he won his position there by gaining a reputation as someone who was tough on companies and big on enforcement.

0 - the number of high ranking bureaucrats in America that have been executed ever for taking bribes which indirectly endangered people's lives.

There you go.

Oh, here is another one for you http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ilk-scandal-accused-given-death-sentence.html

When was the last time any executive in the USA was given either the death sentence or even a life sentence for being involved in a deliberate scheme to defraud that led to deaths?

[/QUOTE]Posted by JB Cases: Now, lets bring this thread back to where it belongs and leave it there if possible.[/QUOTE]

Finally, is it good etiquette to practically dominate a thread with seven nearly back to back "see them from outer space" sized posts in the last 24 hours and to then declare we should get back on topic?

Just wondering...

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]

No, it's not good etiquette which was the point. So why don't you take a few minutes and see which one of us broke etiquette first and made this thread not about Whitten and THEIR COUNTERFEITING problem and instead USED IT as a way to get on the soapbox ranting about how bad "CHINA" is?

Want to bet dinner on the answer to that one? I don't even need to look it up.

 

[JB Cases]

I'm not expert on Economics but I did study Business in college and I did pay attention enough to know one very important thing. Ultimately, the CONSUMER sets the marketplace! Yes, the buck stops with us! Not the manufacturer, not the importer, not the end dealer. It is up to each of us to do our due diligence before purchasing an item. There are many avenues available to assist us, such as Consumer Reports.

If we don't buy the product (whatever it is), that will directly affect the manufacturer who is making the product. No sales means no business. The basics of Economics are all about "Supply and Demand." If there is a demand for a product the price goes up, and so does manufacturing. If there is no demand the price drops, and production falls off. This applies to sales of anything, from houses to cars to soap.

It is our individual choice whether we buy an American made product or a similar one made in China. There is a reason why Toyota and Lexus have out stripped the comparable American made cars. A better car at a better price. But it took several years to ascertain this fact. Now it is common knowledge. That is true despite the problems Toyota has had with sticking gas pedals.

Like the man who bought the China made wire strippers and not the Kleins. He should have known better. I never buy a tool for one time use only. It stays in my tool box after that use. Now he will tell everyone he knows about the inferior wire stripper (so will others) and sales will go down. Eventually you may not see this product on our shelves. If it doesn't sell, the dealers don't want it.

So it is ultimately up to us. We DRIVE the marketplace! Not the Chinese factories or the Chinese government. Same applies for any other manufacturer, either here or abroad. Do your homework and read the fine print.

All that said, counterfeiting remains a big problem. And that's why we have several layers of enforcement to make efforts to protect the original manufacturers. Unfortunately it doesn't always stop them. The problem is just too big. I just saw where millions of dollars of counterfeit sunglasses were seized in Los Angeles harbor. Sometimes they catch them and sometimes they don't.

Triple Tap.

And for the record, if I have to do a job such as stripping a wire one time then I don't use wire strippers - I use a knife just like I was taught as a kid.

Funnily enough the guys here who came to install my satellite dish use a razor as well to strip the wires. I guess that they don't need specialized tools either and they do this job all day long.

I don't buy tools for one time uses either. I buy a tool when I know I will use it a lot and because of that I buy the best I can find or I buy several cheap ones so as to have replacements on hand.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

It is our individual choice whether we buy an American made product or a similar one made in China.

Hi Jay;

The big problem is that almost always there is no choice - there are no 'made in America' alternative products. Walmart, Home Depot, etc., etc., mostly stock imported items because they can buy them so much cheaper, thus increasing their profits. Do you need a home telephone, a toaster, a shoe rack, a desk lamp, an electric razor, a printer, or an alarm clock? Go to your local department store and see how many of these they have that are made in the USA. I can save you the trip. It's pretty much zero. So you see, we are trapped into having to buy crap quality goods mostly made in China. And we pay dearly for them because, generally, they either wear out way too soon, break, injure us, or kill us. :frown:

[/QUOTE]Like the man who bought the China made wire strippers and not the Kleins. He should have known better. I never buy a tool for one time use only.[/QUOTE]

That man is me and what was it I should have known better? That the Chinese wire strippers/cutters would not strip or cut wire, brand new, right out of the package? I thought it was reasonable to think that this tool, albeit low quality, would work at least for a few uses. Like I said in my original post, I figured that I would need the tool maybe just once a year or so.

Now, as part of my continuing life-education, I learned that lesson and know not to buy Chinese junk products, ever again, if possible.

Anybody remember back 30 - 40 - 50 years ago when playing outside on a hot summer day and you refreshed yourself by taking a cool drink from your garden hose. Don't try that any more. Have you read the warning labels on the hoses that are available today? What are these hoses made of? It doesn't feel anything like the old school rubber hoses we all had back then. Next time you are at your department store, stop by the garden center and check out these next generation (Chinese) hoses. Tell us what you think.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[JB Cases]

I am REALLY happy that my cues are in a Jim Murnak and not a look a like Jim Murnak! Everytime one of these threads comes up I like my Murnak even more.. I like my Ford too..
JMO

Sorry I have been told by Brian to limit my post length.

So I think that this article will say for me what I want to say.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123265601944607285.html

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

another example - sorry JB

See, there you go with the red herrings again. I didn't say better quality. I said better than what you bought and possibly as good as the Kleins..

Why don't you reread your quote on this that you posted yesterday at 11:31? Here it is:

[/QUOTE]JB Cases I will bet you a dinner at next year's SBE that I can find a pair of wire strippers that are as good as the Klein ones for less than $10 which were made in China.[/QUOTE]

People should realize that just because you say it (or type it), that doesn't necessarily make it true (see above).

Remember my reference to "word flipping"? See what I meant?

Best,
Brian kc

 

[hangemhigh]

Obligatory knock-off post

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

 

[JB Cases]

Hi Jay;

The big problem is that almost always there is no choice - there are no 'made in America' alternative products. Walmart, Home Depot, etc., etc., mostly stock imported items because they can buy them so much cheaper, thus increasing their profits. Do you need a home telephone, a toaster, a shoe rack, a desk lamp, an electric razor, a printer, or an alarm clock? Go to your local department store and see how many of these they have that are made in the USA. I can save you the trip. It's pretty much zero. So you see, we are trapped into having to buy crap quality goods mostly made in China. And we pay dearly for them because, generally, they either wear out way too soon, break, injure us, or kill us. :frown:

You had a choice. You stood in front of the wire strippers and made your choice.

Now you want to talk numbers? "Pretty close to zero"???

"Pay for them dearly"? "Wear out way too soon"?

How long is something supposed to last? You keep making this sweeping general statements and chide me for not providing stats but you yourself don't provide any.

Like the man who bought the China made wire strippers and not the Kleins. He should have known better. I never buy a tool for one time use only.[/QUOTE]

That man is me and what was it I should have known better? That the Chinese wire strippers/cutters would not strip or cut wire, brand new, right out of the package? I thought it was reasonable to think that this tool, albeit low quality, would work at least for a few uses. Like I said in my original post, I figured that I would need the tool maybe just once a year or so.

Now, as part of my continuing life-education, I learned that lesson and know not to buy Chinese junk products, ever again, if possible.

Anybody remember back 30 - 40 - 50 years ago when playing outside on a hot summer day and you refreshed yourself by taking a cool drink from your garden hose. Don't try that any more. Have you read the warning labels on the hoses that are available today? What are these hoses made of? It doesn't feel anything like the old school rubber hoses we all had back then. Next time you are at your department store, stop by the garden center and check out these next generation (Chinese) hoses. Tell us what you think.

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]

What I think is that 30-40 years ago we did a lot of things without warning labels.

Remember 30-40 years ago when you got a cup of coffee and there was no warning label on it telling you it was hot?

Yeah, the hose manufacturers are all to Kill You Brian. That's right the hoses are just leeching poison into the water that flows through them - DON'T DRINK THE WATER!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGH NO YOU WILL DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!!!

Seriously?

Should we all just pack it in now and go live in a bunker somewhere to protect ourselves from the EVIL imports designed to KILL US ALL?

It's obvious to me that you are a man of reason who has it all figured out. You are intelligent while the rest of us, especially me, is stupid.

So I will retreat and leave the soapbox to you. I am too busy building my fortress against the invasion of life threatening Chinese products. Good thing the trees are still grown in America. Or are they?

 

[JB Cases]

Why don't you reread your quote on this that you posted yesterday at 11:31? Here it is:

JB Cases I will bet you a dinner at next year's SBE that I can find a pair of wire strippers that are as good as the Klein ones for less than $10 which were made in China.[/QUOTE]

People should realize that just because you say it (or type it), that doesn't necessarily make it true (see above).

Remember my reference to "word flipping"? See what I meant?

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]

Why don't YOU reread it. Where in that sentence does it say "BETTER THAN" which is what YOU SAID that I said.

So even I interjected POSSIBLY today I still didn't say BETTER THAN which is YOUR INVENTION.

I remember all of you fantasy references. I remember that you are ranting and raving and using your household items to condemn an entire nation.

I remember that you like to take a few examples of bad things and extrapolate that to be representative of everything yet you won't turn around and do the same for the overwhelming amount of good things that are present.

Did I forget anything else?

Oh yeah I remember that you said that there is a standard joint size?

What is it?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

And for the record, if I have to do a job such as stripping a wire one time then I don't use wire strippers - I use a knife just like I was taught as a kid.

Tell me McGuyver (sp), aside from stripping the wire, did your pocketknife cut clean through the 16 gauge copper? Or did you chew through it? Maybe I missed something when I was a kid. :wink:

[/QUOTE]Funnily enough the guys here who came to install my satellite dish use a razor as well to strip the wires. I guess that they don't need specialized tools either and they do this job all day long.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but they were probably thinking, "I'd kill for a Klein tool right about now." :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc

 

[JB Cases]

Tell me McGuyver (sp), aside from stripping the wire, did your pocketknife clean cut through the 16 gauge copper? Or did you chew through it? Maybe I missed something when I was a kid. :wink:

Funnily enough the guys here who came to install my satellite dish use a razor as well to strip the wires. I guess that they don't need specialized tools either and they do this job all day long.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but they were probably thinking, "I'd kill for a Klein tool right about now." :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]


Nope, but then I know how to strip wire of any size with a razor blade or a pocket knife when I have to. Forgot to mention that this was actually taught to me by an electrician friend of mine.

Maybe they were wishing for a pair of wire strippers and maybe they weren't. I have had a few experiences in China where I thought that the people making things should be using a better tool for the job. Once I went to a tool store and bought some special vice grips that were great for a particular task. I used them all the time in the USA when I had to install latches.

So I brought them to the factory and gave the tool to them. They tried my tool, agreed that it was great and promptly put it away never to be used again.

Why?

Because they had a way to do it that was faster and equally as good.

So the lesson I learned that day is that you don't always need a CERTAIN tool to do a job as long as you have one that works.

Again, it's too bad that you drew the short straw the day you drove all the way to Home Depot and got a pair of wire strippers that didn't work. That incident is burned in your mind apparently and seems to have unfortunately scarred you for life.

I have also had similar things happen to me many times. As I said if there were a law that companies had to pay for our time wasted when we have to return defective goods then the chances of getting defective goods would decrease by a large factor.

But that's neither here nor there. The good thing is that you returned those evil wire strippers before the rubber grips on them had a chance to peel the flesh from your hands and ruin you as a pool player.

Because according to your finish at the SBE you are a pretty good player. We wouldn't want any crappy Chinese goods to ruin that. Are you sure that the wood and glue in your Chinese made Predator shaft isn't poisoning you every time you play?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Goodbye Old Paint, I'm Leaving Cheyenne...

Well, I'll tell you, JB, while the whole wire stripper fiasco did piss me off, I can't say that it scarred me. At least not for life. Maybe just that weekend. :grin:

As for the Pred, it shoots pretty good. :wink: Hoping it's a low emmission model.

We all have whatever formal education we achieve plus our life experiences to draw on. I've seen what I've seen and know what I know.

As hangem high recently said: "blahblahblahblahblah". I must say, I do agree, wholeheartedly. :grin-square:

I'm gonna pick one of these fine deceased stallions and will be riding over the ridge back to Arizona to hang out in some other billiard related forums.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

I enjoyed all of our interactions and wish everyone well.

And as JB pointed out a couple of posts ago, this thread started out about the Whitten family and their issue with a company knocking off their cases. I hope they meet with a good resolution to their problem.

Best,
Brian kc

********************************************

Funnily enough the guys here who came to install my satellite dish use a razor as well to strip the wires. I guess that they don't need specialized tools either and they do this job all day long.

Yeah, but they were probably thinking, "I'd kill for a Klein tool right about now." :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]


Nope, but then I know how to strip wire of any size with a razor blade or a pocket knife when I have to. Forgot to mention that this was actually taught to me by an electrician friend of mine.

Maybe they were wishing for a pair of wire strippers and maybe they weren't. I have had a few experiences in China where I thought that the people making things should be using a better tool for the job. Once I went to a tool store and bought some special vice grips that were great for a particular task. I used them all the time in the USA when I had to install latches.

So I brought them to the factory and gave the tool to them. They tried my tool, agreed that it was great and promptly put it away never to be used again.

Why?

Because they had a way to do it that was faster and equally as good.

So the lesson I learned that day is that you don't always need a CERTAIN tool to do a job as long as you have one that works.

Again, it's too bad that you drew the short straw the day you drove all the way to Home Depot and got a pair of wire strippers that didn't work. That incident is burned in your mind apparently and seems to have unfortunately scarred you for life.

I have also had similar things happen to me many times. As I said if there were a law that companies had to pay for our time wasted when we have to return defective goods then the chances of getting defective goods would decrease by a large factor.

But that's neither here nor there. The good thing is that you returned those evil wire strippers before the rubber grips on them had a chance to peel the flesh from your hands and ruin you as a pool player.

Because according to your finish at the SBE you are a pretty good player. We wouldn't want any crappy Chinese goods to ruin that. Are you sure that the wood and glue in your Chinese made Predator shaft isn't poisoning you every time you play?[/QUOTE]

 

[justadub]

as stated before I have no problem with products from over seas its when a company starts here then heads overseas just to save a buck

I don't know what brand of PC you are using right now, but that company probably started out building them here.

How about your TV? It was in our lifetimes that TV's were made here. There hasn't been one made in the US in a very long time.

Fact is that many, many LARGE US companies that used to make their products here now make them overseas, often in China. I'm not saying that we need to like it. But your statement is very jingoistic, while likely not being accurate at all. We're all here on our computers at this very moment, aren't we? Including you, fastford. Go back and examine the products you use, and ask yourself if they were once made here. I think you'll be surprised.

I sell electronics for a living. I hear it all the time, "where's it made, China? Then I'm not gonna buy it." I gently try to explain to them that they will not find a version of the product that they intended to purchase that is made anywhere BUT China. Still, they turn on their heels and huff their way out. Eventually they will purchase one of whatever it was they wanted. And it will have been made in China. But they sure felt good making their point at that time, and they sure showed me, didn't they?

I think it's a shame that we don't have more manufacturing here in the US. But that horse is out of the barn now. Even the fellow that says he enjoys his Ford doesn't realize how much of it was made in China, even though it was assembled here.

 

[fastford]

my computer is an acer(I believe Taiwan)and my tv(samsung) started in south korea

 

[fastford]

I know some products I use come from here like my predator shaft didnt know they moved to China. Do you no the reason they went to China? I don't but if the reason was to save a buck I will not purchase another product from them

I will be the first one to admit that as Americans we have sold out, can not change that now can we?

 

[smokey]

hey chicken, sri...

This reminds me so much of another quote (maybe not as profound but just as straight *maybe even straighter* to the point):

"A WORD TO THE WISE AIN'T NECESSARY, IT'S THE STUPID ONES WHO NEED ADVICE.” Bill Cosby

JV & chicken have a "Belief System" that they can not escape from. to me, and only to me, they have created the prison of the China they compose irrespective of reality and serious thought.[/QUOTE]

speaking of irrespective of reality and serious thought.....

[/QUOTE]and besides, their only experiences if bad briefcase locks and thinking they really know sh*t about lead.[/QUOTE]

Probably, it would surprise you to learn that I am a business owner who works daily with issues regarding the National Sanitation Foundation and lead reduction. My sense is, there is a distinct possibility I know more than even you do about lead. Someone like yourself who tries to portray himself as a deep thinker, should, before spouting off, perhaps consider the possibility that the other person may actually "know sh*t about lead".

[/QUOTE]we all have our hobbies and things we love to do in life and for sure as the inimical chicken said[/QUOTE]

inimical = hostile. I'm gonna have to consider you a detractor. :shocked: But you're a funny man. And deep, too. :wink:

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]

i used the wrong word [a malaprop]

my meaning was, a unique and kindly person, but i looked up the word in many spellings [my spelling is terrible] and your were right. sri for my mistake and that was not my meaning at all.

all the best,
smokey

 

[jay helfert]

Hi Jay;

The big problem is that almost always there is no choice - there are no 'made in America' alternative products. Walmart, Home Depot, etc., etc., mostly stock imported items because they can buy them so much cheaper, thus increasing their profits. Do you need a home telephone, a toaster, a shoe rack, a desk lamp, an electric razor, a printer, or an alarm clock? Go to your local department store and see how many of these they have that are made in the USA. I can save you the trip. It's pretty much zero. So you see, we are trapped into having to buy crap quality goods mostly made in China. And we pay dearly for them because, generally, they either wear out way too soon, break, injure us, or kill us. :frown:

Like the man who bought the China made wire strippers and not the Kleins. He should have known better. I never buy a tool for one time use only.[/QUOTE]

That man is me and what was it I should have known better? That the Chinese wire strippers/cutters would not strip or cut wire, brand new, right out of the package? I thought it was reasonable to think that this tool, albeit low quality, would work at least for a few uses. Like I said in my original post, I figured that I would need the tool maybe just once a year or so.

Now, as part of my continuing life-education, I learned that lesson and know not to buy Chinese junk products, ever again, if possible.

Anybody remember back 30 - 40 - 50 years ago when playing outside on a hot summer day and you refreshed yourself by taking a cool drink from your garden hose. Don't try that any more. Have you read the warning labels on the hoses that are available today? What are these hoses made of? It doesn't feel anything like the old school rubber hoses we all had back then. Next time you are at your department store, stop by the garden center and check out these next generation (Chinese) hoses. Tell us what you think.

Best,
Brian kc[/QUOTE]

Thanks Brian. I didn't necessarily say that we must (or should) try to buy only American made products. But we should make an effort to buy the best made product. And that is why we are buying so many Japanese made cars.

I contend that there are alternatives to the so called "cheap" imported goods sold at Wal Mart and Home Depot. If they don't have what you want in the way of quality you can shop somewhere else. I have and will continue to do so. I just bought a digital camera at a local (well established) camera shop, rather than at Best Buy or Costco. I got better service by a knowledgeable employee, and I purchased what I believe to be a superior product (Canon). I did pay a little more, but it may outlast the "cheapie" cameras by years.

When it comes to buying tools (I have a garage full), I am VERY careful. I still like Craftsman brand products, but there are other good ones. I will examine a tool closely before I buy it, whether it be a wire cutter or a skil saw. It's funny, I remember buying a new wire cutter a few years back, and yes there was a cheap one that looked like the other one I had been using. On closer inspection it just looked a little flimsier, so I bought a more expensive model. I still have it today, and I've used it many times over the years. Same with the electric shaver I use to trim my hair (what I have of it). I did not buy a cheap one from CVS. Instead I got a good one (commercial quality) from the local beauty supply. And yes, I did pay more.

Same goes for hoses. I bought mine at the local hardware store, not at Home Depot. Paid more but got a good quality hose. Same for the spray nozzle that goes on the end. I bought the $12 one, instead of the $8 model. The difference between the two was apparent to me. Like you, I drank out of many garden hoses as a kid. Probably still would if I was thirsty. Today, I'm more concerned about the quality of the water than the hose it comes out of. There is an old saying that applies to all of the above, "Cheap is expensive."

By the way, I didn't say I wouldn't buy a Chinese made product. I just like to take a good look at what I'm buying first. That is why I rarely shop online, unless I'm buying something "generic", like an airplane ticket, or maybe a book.