All around best american player??

[jmurphy]

The only way 14.1 is getting thrown in the mix is in the "career match". 9 or 10-ball, one-pocket, 8-ball and banks. Pick 3 of those. You can probably even pick full rack banks if you want. Hell, just play two of those. What's the worst that happens then, you break even? That's not that bad if you ask me. Shit, just play one of those! Is there a snooker table in Vegas? I think there's one at the Cue Club but I can't remember. If so, play that! The only American that's going to give you action in 14.1 is Harriman so you might as well just quit asking.

Cue Club has one 6X12 snooker and two Billiard tables

 

[john schmidt]

hi

The only way 14.1 is getting thrown in the mix is in the "career match". 9 or 10-ball, one-pocket, 8-ball and banks. Pick 3 of those. You can probably even pick full rack banks if you want. Hell, just play two of those. What's the worst that happens then, you break even? That's not that bad if you ask me. Shit, just play one of those! Is there a snooker table in Vegas? I think there's one at the Cue Club but I can't remember. If so, play that! The only American that's going to give you action in 14.1 is Harriman so you might as well just quit asking.

are you kidding theres quite a few great 14.1 players in usa sigel,varner,hopkins,harriman,san souci,hatch,robles,nevel,archer,barouty,lipsky,jose garcia,
hunter,im leaving quite a few out.


to be clear again ill play any american 14.1,9ball, 1hole.

i said that on camera and ill play the worst that can happen is ill lose. larry can be first.

 

[suprnva]

The funny thing is that our most recent action in Vegas has been from High "B" and Low "A" players. Some $500 sets and even a couple $2,000 sets. This coming from players that might break and run one or two racks in a race to 10. The guys that can really play are busted and wont play unless they have the total nutzzzzz.

That kind of action just doesn't happen in Wisconsin. There have been a few rare occasions where action of that size has happened, but in the 7 years I've been around pool I can count twice. I'm telling you, Wisconsin is the worst for pool action. Alaska might have better action than we do! LOL.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

Good point also.

And gotta add, that John was ready to play Larry 14.1, so the reason him not to play Larry cannot be only his temper. Could it be John is afraid of getting busted in all-around?

actually i will play him a tar all around. ill play you to marcus juva.

 

[suprnva]

are you kidding theres quite a few great 14.1 players in usa sigel,varner,hopkins,harriman,san souci,hatch,robles,nevel,archer,barouty,lipsky,jose garcia,
hunter,im leaving quite a few out.


to be clear again ill play any american 14.1,9ball, 1hole.

i said that on camera and ill play the worst that can happen is ill lose. larry can be first.

And like I said, Harriman is the only one that's going to give you action.

Why won't you just play one game against Larry? 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball, one-pocket or banks.

Wait! I got it! Larry will play you 14.1. Then you have to play him a set of 8-ball, 9-ball and 10-ball...all on the bartable! Same bet for all 4 games. :thumbup:

 

[jay helfert]

Time goldens the memories.

I saw what I saw. I saw a guy run ten and out from nowhere so many times he had his opponents head spinning. And five of those ten shots were circus shots! I'm talking three ball combinations, bank combos, billiard combos and vice versa, two and three rail kicks into the pack that made balls, and other extraordinary shots that defy explanation. And this was a routine run out for Ronnie. He wasn't just good at One Pocket. He was electrifying! It's no accident he was the most popular player to watch in his era. He packed 'em in wherever he played.

Plus (and I know I've said this before) Ronnie was really solid for the money. I never saw him dog stroke a ball or get weak on a big shot. On the contrary, the more that was on the line, the better he hit 'em.

Many times, Ronnie gave up the "nuts", or at least everyone thought so. Games like 10-6 to very good players or one handed to their two even up. After the smoke cleared and Ronnie had the money, he never bragged either. He just went about his business and tried to make the next game. I asked him once why he was always giving up the nuts to get games. He looked at me and said, "Jay, it's when you outrun the nuts that you make the biggest scores." And he did it a million times.

Bottom line, Ronnie was a winner and he had no equal at One Pocket. Just like Efren after him, EVERYONE (and there were a lot of damn good players) agreed that Ronnie was the best.

So those people that are so quick to dismiss Ronnie because they never saw him play and only know how great Efren is, just don't have the whole picture. I saw 'em both in their prime. For big money, I'll take Ronnie.

 

[suprnva]

actually i will play him a tar all around. ill play you to marcus juva.

Just looking for that lock all the time, aren't you? You say you're close in 9-ball and one-pocket. I'd assume you feel you're close in 8-ball, 10-ball and banks too. Just play 3 games that you two are close in instead of 2 your close in and 1 you're the clear favorite. It's not that damn complicated!!!

 

[JCIN]

Okay so today..April 2010 who's the best all around player...3 days of practice, playing all 5 games I think Shannon would take it off against pretty much anybody. Especially anyone in the USA.

As of today IMO Shannon is a dog to Harriman or Schmidt. That is playing 5 games.

Take that to Banks, One Pocket and 9 Ball and I agree Shannon is going to be tough to beat. Although he doesn't have to like playing Frost or Gabe that set.

Of course there is always that washed up old guy from those islands waaaaay out there in the Pacific. Last I looked he played all games good and if you wanted to throw some billiards in the mix he may give up a little weight.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could find out ?

 

[suprnva]

As of today IMO Shannon is a dog to Harriman or Schmidt. That is playing 5 games.

Take that to Banks, One Pocket and 9 Ball and I agree Shannon is going to be tough to beat. Although he doesn't have to like playing Frost or Gabe that set.

Of course there is always that washed up old guy from those islands waaaaay out there in the Pacific. Last I looked he played all games good and if you wanted to throw some billiards in the mix he may give up a little weight.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could find out ?

Those islanders shouldn't count. They have fields where they grow pool players. How can we ever compete here in the states? It's just not fair!

 

[john schmidt]

hi

Just looking for that lock all the time, aren't you? You say you're close in 9-ball and one-pocket. I'd assume you feel you're close in 8-ball, 10-ball and banks too. Just play 3 games that you two are close in instead of 2 your close in and 1 you're the clear favorite. It's not that damn complicated!!!

the all around consists of those 3 games. i played harriman that way and if somebody else including larry wants to play that way ill play.its not that damn complicated.

dont take this the wrong way but your living vicariously through larry and trying to woof and sound like you know what your talking about and can play.

you work and make a honest living and i respect that. when it comes to pro pool and all the things that go with it you dont know what your talking about.

that doesnt make you a bad guy ,your just ignorant not a jerk.

 

[dash]

I saw what I saw. I saw a guy run ten and out from nowhere so many times he had his opponents head spinning. And five of those ten shots were circus shots! I'm talking three ball combinations, bank combos, billiard combos and vice versa, two and three rail kicks into the pack that made balls, and other extraordinary shots that defy explanation. And this was a routine run out for Ronnie. He wasn't just good at One Pocket. He was electrifying! It's no accident he was the most popular player to watch in his era. He packed 'em in wherever he played.

Plus (and I know I've said this before) Ronnie was really solid for the money. I never saw him dog stroke a ball or get weak on a big shot. On the contrary, the more that was on the line, the better he hit 'em.

Many times, Ronnie gave up the "nuts", or at least everyone thought so. Games like 10-6 to very good players or one handed to their two even up. After the smoke cleared and Ronnie had the money, he never bragged either. He just went about his business and tried to make the next game. I asked him once why he was always giving up the nuts to get games. He looked at me and said, "Jay, it's when you outrun the nuts that you make the biggest scores." And he did it a million times.

Bottom line, Ronnie was a winner and he had no equal at One Pocket. Just like Efren after him, EVERYONE (and there were a lot of damn good players) agreed that Ronnie was the best.

So those people that are so quick to dismiss Ronnie because they never saw him play and only know how great Efren is, just don't have the whole picture. I saw 'em both in their prime. For big money, I'll take Ronnie.

i remember ronnie coming to greenway back in the 80s.don't know if he was past his prime or not but he (like u said)ALWAYS walked away winner.
and there was some talent in greenway in those days!
Hey jay.I asked a question in another thread u must not have seen.how good was flyboy back in the day?watched him and walden play onepocket for quite a chunk of change back in the early 90s.flyboy had to be past his prime then.what was he like in his prime?


---DASH---

 

[suprnva]

the all around consists of those 3 games. i played harriman that way and if somebody else including larry wants to play that way ill play.its not that damn complicated.

dont take this the wrong way but your living vicariously through larry and trying to woof and sound like you know what your talking about and can play.

you work and make a honest living and i respect that. when it comes to pro pool and all the things that go with it you dont know what your talking about.

that doesnt make you a bad guy ,your just ignorant not a jerk.

THAT all-around consists of THOSE 3 games. Is there a rule that you can't play an all-around with different games? No, you're just to scared to because you're not the favorite then.

As for living through Larry, you're wrong. I know I can't play. I don't care if I'm ever good. Pool isn't that important to me. I love the game and all, but if I had to quit forever I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Larry is a friend of mine and if he tells me to post something like offering a game I'll do it. And when someone like you sits around and talks shit about my friend, I'm going to stick up for them. I always tell things the way they are, not the way people want them to be told. You are a scared, heartless, nit. If you weren't, you'd play a game that's at least even instead of looking for a lock. I don't even know how you figure it's even though. You've won all those major titles and Larry hasn't won any! The fact that he's willing to play without a spot is just crazy! Shit, if the game happens I might have to bet on you.

 

[dmgwalsh]

The great thing about the internet is these nitwits sometimes get to woof at
players. Most of the players have left and wouldn't give these guys the time of day.


John, you are wasting air on this guy.

 

[john schmidt]

THAT all-around consists of THOSE 3 games. Is there a rule that you can't play an all-around with different games? No, you're just to scared to because you're not the favorite then.

As for living through Larry, you're wrong. I know I can't play. I don't care if I'm ever good. Pool isn't that important to me. I love the game and all, but if I had to quit forever I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Larry is a friend of mine and if he tells me to post something like offering a game I'll do it. And when someone like you sits around and talks shit about my friend, I'm going to stick up for them. I always tell things the way they are, not the way people want them to be told. You are a scared, heartless, nit. If you weren't, you'd play a game that's at least even instead of looking for a lock. I don't even know how you figure it's even though. You've won all those major titles and Larry hasn't won any! The fact that he's willing to play without a spot is just crazy! Shit, if the game happens I might have to bet on you.

im a scared heartless nit. ill bet ive played more known champions for over 1000 dollars then him.
sad thing is youthinks nobody will play larry because of his game. nobody wants to play him because of his attitude.

i can play guys just as good as him who are decent to play.

for the record though if someone wants it to happen ill play him 8,9,10 ball, onehole,14.1,banks and snooker. he might win he might not.

 

[DangerousDave]

8-pack vs 200? OK, let's put some logic into this one quick. Say you're playing 9-ball and you make 1 ball on each break. You have to now run a total of 64 balls for an 8-pack. You have to shoot all 64 of those balls IN ORDER. After each break you might not have a clear shot at your first ball and you might have to kick or jump.

Now for the 200 in 14.1. You make your 1st ball and break open the rack. Now you shoot balls IN RANDOM ORDER until you leave yourself a cut on the last ball and do it all over again. After the break, as long as you actually hit the pack which any top player should be able to do, you're going to be able to find your first shot without having to worry about kicking or jumping. Odds are you won't have to kick, jump or even bank in the entire 200 balls.

Oh yeah, 14.1 is so much harder. And if you look outside, right now, you're going to see that the sky is now green, the grass is blue, and Elvis is preforming a concert in your yard.

If you think anyone ever ran 200 shooting the balls in random order, you really are a lost cause. If an 8-pack in 9-ball is tougher than running 200 in 14.1, then a 4-pack must be tougher than running 100? This will put your assessment of things into better perspective for the people that have actually played both games. It's not even close.

 

[suprnva]

The great thing about the internet is these nitwits sometimes get to woof at
players. Most of the players have left and wouldn't give these guys the time of day.


John, you are wasting air on this guy.

You know the great thing about the internet? Idiots like you think you know what you're talking about! Did you even read the thread or did you just want to jump in and kiss John's ass really quick?

I'm not woofing at John to play me. I'm trying to help a friend get a game that he asked me to get him. There's a big ****ing difference.

 

[suprnva]

im a scared heartless nit. ill bet ive played more known champions for over 1000 dollars then him.
sad thing is youthinks nobody will play larry because of his game. nobody wants to play him because of his attitude.

i can play guys just as good as him who are decent to play.

for the record though if someone wants it to happen ill play him 8,9,10 ball, onehole,14.1,banks and snooker. he might win he might not.

But even with his attitude you're 5-0 in tournaments against him and you'll play him 14.1. Do you think before you type? Do you think his attitude will be different in 14.1 than it is in any other games? How come when Larry opened up a challenge to any American to play him the only person that responded was Johnny Archer? Is Archer the only person that can play against someone with an attitude? You're just looking for a ****ing lock. Admit it already.

 

[Marvel]

I saw what I saw. I saw a guy run ten and out from nowhere so many times he had his opponents head spinning. And five of those ten shots were circus shots! I'm talking three ball combinations, bank combos, billiard combos and vice versa, two and three rail kicks into the pack that made balls, and other extraordinary shots that defy explanation. And this was a routine run out for Ronnie. He wasn't just good at One Pocket. He was electrifying! It's no accident he was the most popular player to watch in his era. He packed 'em in wherever he played.

Plus (and I know I've said this before) Ronnie was really solid for the money. I never saw him dog stroke a ball or get weak on a big shot. On the contrary, the more that was on the line, the better he hit 'em.

Many times, Ronnie gave up the "nuts", or at least everyone thought so. Games like 10-6 to very good players or one handed to their two even up. After the smoke cleared and Ronnie had the money, he never bragged either. He just went about his business and tried to make the next game. I asked him once why he was always giving up the nuts to get games. He looked at me and said, "Jay, it's when you outrun the nuts that you make the biggest scores." And he did it a million times.

Bottom line, Ronnie was a winner and he had no equal at One Pocket. Just like Efren after him, EVERYONE (and there were a lot of damn good players) agreed that Ronnie was the best.

So those people that are so quick to dismiss Ronnie because they never saw him play and only know how great Efren is, just don't have the whole picture. I saw 'em both in their prime. For big money, I'll take Ronnie.

I agree I don't have the whole picture cos I simply never saw Ronnie, but there's plenty of dvd's showing Efren doing what you're describing, and I must shyly add, that what I've read from your texts and listen your commentating, you might have bit of tendency of bringing up those old eras and memories with "Golden Frames" and some polish in it.

I don't mean to insult here, I'm not saying you're lying or anything like that. It's just natural for us that time goldens the memories and our moods might play part in them.

I'm sure we youngsters tell in the future for all the champions, how they wouldn't have lick on the Mighty Efren if he'd still play or be alive


Why I came with my nosy opinion about Efren vs. Ronnie, was because so many of the (other) old skool players and commentators, have told so, and this issue comes up time after time...

Ronnie must definitely have earned his legend, but was his a-game as good as Efren's, I doubt.


If you watch the DCC 1-P dvd (2006?) where Efren beats Alex in the semi and Miller in the finals, you'll hear Billy and Beard go mad in the booth. They don't compare him on Ronnie, but they compare him on Woods and Jordan. (and Efren is superior to them )

And that's a Major final. I do believe though, that Ronnie had more gamble in him and I do recognize Efrens "quit", but that's just what it comes to gambling and on that particular type of character and situation.

Over all what it comes to character, I'm sure Efren is much higher, and what it comes to NOT quitting, let's all watch Efren vs. Earl Color Of Money race to 120, where Efren is down 92 to 109 and wins 120-117. That's showing heart and competition. And that's not the only case Efren has done it.

I think many gamblers has some sort of stubbornes in them which doesn't allow them to quit (I've experienced that many times myself), but that has nothing to do with wisdom or smart betting. I'd guess Efren is also bit above all these addictions and obsessions, and shouldn't be misinterpreted with "quitter" or "no heart". The guy has won hundreds of times enough money he needs, so maybe he watches the door in wish for sleep if he's having a bad day. Ronnie back in the days probably was quite in need for the score, Efren not so much.

 

[suprnva]

If you think anyone ever ran 200 shooting the balls in random order, you really are a lost cause. If an 8-pack in 9-ball is tougher than running 200 in 14.1, then a 4-pack must be tougher than running 100? This will put your assessment of things into better perspective for the people that have actually played both games. It's not even close.

Let me elaborate on the random order factor. After you break the balls you find a pattern and you shoot in that order. You don't however have to worry about the balls being solid, stripe or the 8-ball like you do in, well, 8-ball and you don't have to worry if they are going 1-9 like in 9-ball. And if you get out of line on a ball you can always shoot at a different one without a penalty.

Oh, and I've played both games so it's not like I'm looking at 14.1 from a total outside perspective or anything.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

You know the great thing about the internet? Idiots like you think you know what you're talking about! Did you even read the thread or did you just want to jump in and kiss John's ass really quick?

I'm not woofing at John to play me. I'm trying to help a friend get a game that he asked me to get him. There's a big ****ing difference.

actually dennis is a close friend of mine. and no your not trying to make a game.
your just enjoying trying to sound like you know anything about pool.

this is as close to being a champion at anything you will ever be ,thats arguing with one.

i remember you patrick and honestly im not sure you could get anybody to be your friend if the whole world was under water and your the only person with an oxygen tank. get a life.

p.s. if larry and i play you should bet on me but you wont because your not that smart.