CTE/PRO ONE video--CANCELLED

John, I think you are wrong and inappropriate here. Please show me where this is "on record." I certainly don't believe or agree with these statements, and I certainly hope I have never written something so insulting. If I have ever used words like this, I will be happy to offer a sincere apology.
This opening paragraph and subsequent language in one of your articles conveys the exact sentiment that you consider the claims made by CTE proponents to be inaccurate and fraudulent. And I am certain that I can find comments from you on AZ which convey the same sentiments.

You said;

"I have recently developed an amazing new aiming system called DAM (“Dave’s Aiming Method”) that will revolutionize pool playing around the world. DAM is the best and most complete aiming system that has ever been devised. The DAM system will radically improve the shot-making abilities of those who spend the time to learn it. DAM will eventually become the "aiming standard" and will significantly accelerate your learning curve. There are those who will eventually learn the system, and there are those who will not and be beaten by those who do. I make almost every shot with this system ... I rarely miss. Isn't that proof of how good it is? Don't you want to be as good as me? If you want to master the DAM system, you must visit me in person and pay outrageous sums of money to learn all of the required
intricacies. If you don't believe me or if you doubt the validity of my system, you will be persecuted and ridiculed by all of my followers. "

Although you disclaimed this by saying that you were being facetious your meaning is quite clear.

I am absolutely sure that the CTE proponents strongly believe in what they are teaching, and I also know that some people can use CTE quite effectively. Even if I am skeptical of some of the "claims" sometimes made by CTE proponents, I will never accuse them of being frauds. That is a strong (almost criminal) accusation. However, I will continue to disagree and question things when I think something is unclear or inappropriate.

As will I. I think you almost have a duty to spend some serious time figuring out the exact nuts and bolts of CTE rather than ridiculing as you did above.

First of all Hal Houle has never ever charged anyone to learn from him. Never. So for you to write your piece as if he does is just wrong. Dave also does not charge.

Stan charges but he has never made any such claim as you attribute to aiming system proponents.

As for persecution and ridicule - I believe that the people who have been persecuted and ridiculed the most here are the people who learned from Hal and are enthusiastic about what they learned. Lou Figuoera was a huge and talented master of the ridicule or "houligans" back in the RSB days. Your paragraph above is another form of that persecution and ridicule. You could just as easily written your article disagreeing with what you call point and pivot systems without setting the tone that you did.

I didn't make the connection. I remember your name from my early communications with Sterling. I've also talked to Sterling recently about having them also carry VEPS. I hope they do, because I think they could do well with it.

I appreciate that you still value my instructional products despite our "disagreements" online.

Of course which is why I can't understand your tone here. To me as a seeker of knowledge I would think you would be going directly to the source or as close to it as you can get to figure out everything that they know about it before claiming it can't work. You might be right that CTE and similar systems require adjustments, but until you can implement CTE yourself how do you really KNOW it?

You have videos which show that the actual path off the rail is much different than what was the conventional wisdom regarding how balls rebound from the cushion. Before your video there have been dozens of books which tell people the wrong thing. So I can't really understand why you aren't leading the charge to put CTE on video and figure out why it works, what adjustments, if any, are needed and how much adjusting has to happen and how to calculate it consciously. It may well turn out that the amount of adjustment is so slight when using CTE that it's imperceptible to the person using it. Wouldn't you like to be able to show this in detail rather than assuming it to be true?

I don't get it. You and Dave should be trading emails and figuring this stuff out together.

Hal Houle is an old man who for whatever reason got obsessed with aiming systems. He didn't bother to diagram them - he just figured them out on the table or got them from Greenleaf, or whatever. The point is that they exist. So forget about whatever Hal says about how great they are and whether all the pros are using them and focus purely on the systems themselves.

If your passion is to become a full time pool scholar then it's incumbent that you are working with other scholars in the field rather than against them. You, Dave Segal, and Stan Shuffet - along with the rest of us can only benefit from such collaboration. Animosity and facetiousness only causes further divisiveness.
 
Dave Alciatore is on record as saying that it's snake oil and that proponents of CTE are frauds.
John, I think you are wrong and inappropriate here. Please show me where this is "on record." I certainly don't believe or agree with these statements, and I certainly hope I have never written something so insulting. If I have ever used words like this, I will be happy to offer a sincere apology.
This opening paragraph and subsequent language in one of your articles conveys the exact sentiment that you consider the claims made by CTE proponents to be inaccurate and fraudulent. And I am certain that I can find comments from you on AZ which convey the same sentiments

You said:
"I have recently developed an amazing new aiming system called DAM (“Dave’s Aiming Method”) that will revolutionize pool playing around the world. DAM is the best and most complete aiming system that has ever been devised. The DAM system will radically improve the shot-making abilities of those who spend the time to learn it. DAM will eventually become the "aiming standard" and will significantly accelerate your learning curve. There are those who will eventually learn the system, and there are those who will not and be beaten by those who do. I make almost every shot with this system ... I rarely miss. Isn't that proof of how good it is? Don't you want to be as good as me? If you want to master the DAM system, you must visit me in person and pay outrageous sums of money to learn all of the required
intricacies. If you don't believe me or if you doubt the validity of my system, you will be persecuted and ridiculed by all of my followers. "

Although you disclaimed this by saying that you were being facetious your meaning is quite clear.
The latest version of my exaggerated DAM marketing paragraph contains even more outrageous claims. The paragraph seems to grow every time a new Hal Houle, CTE, 90/90, or any other "aiming system" thread appears. The paragraph is a spoof on some of the outrageous claims sometimes made concerning some "aiming systems." The paragraph does ridicule outrageous claims, but it certainly doesn't accuse instructors like Stan or enthusiasts like Spidey of being "frauds." Also, the paragraph does not mention or address any specific aiming system (e.g., CTE). So you are terribly wrong on multiple counts.

I still think your choice of words ("snake oil" and "fraud") was inappropriate, and I hope you understand that at some point. You are way out of line suggesting I have used those words or that I have attributed them to Stan or anybody else.

I do disagree with some things Stan, Spidey, and Hal have posted or written or spoken to me, and I will continue to question some of the things with which I disagree, but I certainly don't think these people are "frauds." Suggesting that is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Regards,
Dave
 
Great post.

Without question, Stan seems like a great person and consummate professional. And, even without CTE, I'm sure he would still be a great instructor.

Stan's the man.

Regards,
Dave

Dave, you are so right, Stan is a great instructor. Does all the stroke analysis stuff with video, teaches the proper way to play shots, answers all questions about pool. When you take an 8 hour lesson he doesn't stop for 9 or 10 hours and that is because he is literally exhausted. The man knows alot about pool. What a great experience learning from Stan.
Cookie man
 
After much consideration, I have made a business decision to indefinitely postpone the creation of a CTE/PRO ONE video.

My schedule for lessons is resuming as usual and all courses will reflect the newly redefined CTE/PRO ONE Aiming System.

Thank you for your understanding,
Stan Shuffett
Stan, this is disappointing news. I had my hopes up thinking the video would give my game a boost, but I can understand that taking on something like producing a video for sale can be a large undertaking. Maybe I can find a way to take some live lessons which would beat a video any day.......

James
 
The latest version of my exaggerated DAM marketing paragraph contains even more outrageous claims. The paragraph seems to grow every time a new Hal Houle, CTE, 90/90, or any other "aiming system" thread appears. The paragraph is a spoof on some of the outrageous claims sometimes made concerning some "aiming systems." The paragraph does ridicule outrageous claims, but it certainly doesn't accuse instructors like Stan or enthusiasts like Spidey of being "frauds." Also, the paragraph does not mention or address any specific aiming system (e.g., CTE). So you are terribly wrong on multiple counts.

I still think your choice of words ("snake oil" and "fraud") was inappropriate, and I hope you understand that at some point. You are way out of line suggesting I have used those words or that I have attributed them to Stan or anybody else.

I do disagree with some things Stan, Spidey, and Hal have posted or written or spoken to me, and I will continue to question some of the things with which I disagree, but I certainly don't think these people are "frauds." Suggesting that is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Regards,
Dave

Ridiculing a proponent of a method by suggesting that they are lying to their audience is an accusation of fraud when coupled with your accusation that the audience must pay money to use it it.

That is what FRAUD is Dave, deception for commercial gain.

If I say to you that I am using a system to d the the EXACT SAME thing on every shot to make any shot on the table and I will teach it to anyone who wants to know it will you add me to your list?

Here I will make this statement for you.

I, John Barton, will teach everyone a system for making shots where the user can make ANY physically possible shot directly to a pocket by doing the exact same steps each time. Once you learn my system and follow it exactly and precisely you will be able to make every shot that is possible.

Am I ridicule worthy if I make this statement?

How about I amend it?

"If you want to learn this amazing system you can take personal lessons for $1000 or you can buy my video for $100 - guaranteed results as long as you are physically capable of following my directions exactly"

Will you add me now?

Let me know if I made the list with these two statements.

If so then I will send you a copy of my video detailing the system I teach for your review.

I am terribly right on all counts. Instead of using your article to focus on all the TRULY great things you have established in terms of pool knowledge you elected instead to focus on the things that you do not understand and instead of of trying to understand them and build a bridge between those who use and teach them you instead widen the chasm.
 
Has Doctor Dave ever won a tournament? No???? I'm not surprised.

This is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum, and that says quite a bit. Coming from a user with 4 posts, it's likely a regular trying to take an anonymous shot at Dr. Dave. They don't have the courage to make their illogical and sleazy attack straight up.


Bob Bowman never won an Olympic gold medal - but he's Michael Phelp's coach. So much for HR's reasoning.

Thank God we don't rely on world champions to be the custodians of pool info, instruction and science. Guys like Earl, who can't write books...would be wonderful for beginners :rolleyes:
 
Yes I may not have hundreds of posts to be credible to you. But I have been a long time lurker and Dr Dave just posts alot of good stuff on the web but at the same time he posts a lot of nonsense on here. Yes he may have his VEPS but that doesn't mean he knows how to play.
 
I don't know of ANY aiming system that doesn't rely on estimation, feel, adjustments, etc.

You have to estimate, feel and make adjustments for ghost ball or even contact point to contact point aiming. Otherwise, you're going to miss a whole lot of balls. :D


JoeyA

Joey,

I find it no less than amazing, How all of the old gunner's, who never even heard of CTE, or BHE, (or any of the dozens of new acronyms)... ever made a ball !!! Thank God for the age of information. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.
 
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Joey,

I find it no less than amazing, How all of the old gunner's, who never even heard of CTE, or BHE, (or any of the dozens of new acronyms)... ever made a ball !!! Thank God for the age of information. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.



Dick,

I've noted that even I shot a hell of a lot better before I was so damned smart and spent more time on a computer than a pool table.

My stance is wrong. I know it is wrong because umpteen books, video's, and posts on the internet have told me it is wrong. Last week I "corrected" my stance. After trying to shoot like that for a few hours I couldn't pocket a ball any way I tried including my old stance. Finally after a couple more hours I was able to forget about stance and just shoot pool. The balls started falling again.

I just noticed Shane positions his feet just like I do much of the time. I can't wait to tell him how wrong that is and what a dummy he is to shoot like that. Think I'll do it just before a match and bet the other way!

Hu
 
I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.

Maybe there people used the Wheel, before it had a name like the Wheel.
 

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Dick,

I've noted that even I shot a hell of a lot better before I was so damned smart and spent more time on a computer than a pool table.

My stance is wrong. I know it is wrong because umpteen books, video's, and posts on the internet have told me it is wrong. Last week I "corrected" my stance. After trying to shoot like that for a few hours I couldn't pocket a ball any way I tried including my old stance. Finally after a couple more hours I was able to forget about stance and just shoot pool. The balls started falling again.

I just noticed Shane positions his feet just like I do much of the time. I can't wait to tell him how wrong that is and what a dummy he is to shoot like that. Think I'll do it just before a match and bet the other way!

Hu

Hu,

I'm with you and Dick. Some mechanics are great for simplifying the stroke, and some systems are great for getting a player in the ball park when he or she can't visualize the shot. But whenever I try to make my mechanics and systems work "by the book," I end up playing worse than ever. IMO the importance of having perfect knowledge of how any system works is grossly overrated.

I think I'm going to go back to work on good old-fashioned strategy now. Dick, you got time to give me some lessons! :thumbup:

Roger
 
Joey,

I find it no less than amazing, How all of the old gunner's, who never even heard of CTE, or BHE, (or any of the dozens of new acronyms)... ever made a ball !!! Thank God for the age of information. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.

Well,
The pyramids were built without cranes and power tools. So I will suggest your theory next time I build a high rise.

As people dissect the game and come up with theories like CTE or BHE (buy the way I use BHE and it works great) it is a way of shortening the learning curve. Some people are naturals at any given sport and others need help and guidance to obtain their goals.
 
Live and let live!

Joey,

I find it no less than amazing, How all of the old gunner's, who never even heard of CTE, or BHE, (or any of the dozens of new acronyms)... ever made a ball !!! Thank God for the age of information. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.

Dick,
Those old "gunners" may not have of heard CTE or BHE but many of them have used particular techniques and particular aiming systems to pocket those balls.

The "gunners" learned how to make balls by hitting lots of balls. The CTE and BHE people are simply trying to find a way to hit less balls and still have a better game.

I don't see any problem with people using CTE, CTE/Pro One, BHE or even a DAM aiming system. What I don't appreciate is people on the forum ridiculing one another because they don't agree with one another or being so authoritative and trying to shove your particular perspective down someone else's throat.


JoeyA
 
Joey,

I find it no less than amazing, How all of the old gunner's, who never even heard of CTE, or BHE, (or any of the dozens of new acronyms)... ever made a ball !!! Thank God for the age of information. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder how Strickland, Mc Cready, RA, Efren, etc.... or any of those guy's, ever enjoyed such success, without this valuable information.

BHE (Back Hand English) has been around for at least 60 years. Maybe not called that everywhere but it's been around. I think we're seeing a case of what once was old is "new" again.

One of the things many of us learn as teachers of any subject is we must be able to explain the same thing many different ways for different people to understand what we're talking about.
 
BHE (Back Hand English) has been around for at least 60 years. Maybe not called that everywhere but it's been around. I think we're seeing a case of what once was old is "new" again.

I honestly think it's been around since the dawn of pool, when they first starting intentionally using english. Before it even occurred to me that there was more than one way to put spin on a ball, I just shifted my back hand to make the tip point at the desired part of he ball. This was never a conscious decision. And when I teach others english I don't see them move their bridge hand... not even 'leaning' it slightly. They just point the tip to the side.

Joe Tucker has a good video on the various ways to apply english and basically seems to say if you could pick just one, BHE should be the one. Front hand is okay too, parallel is terrible. He uses and recommends a mix of BHE and FHE. But favoring the back hand.
 
Hal has often said that these aiming systems and backhand english has been around forever.

He is just one that has spent a lot of years trying to make it onto presentable form.

Shane Van Boeining said CLEARLY the other day on TAR that he uses a STICK aiming system that uses the sides of the ferrule for aiming. Hal Houle told me in 2001 that Earl Strickland uses a "stick aiming" method. Now of course I have no way to know this without asking Earl but the point is that Hal Houle mentions the EXISTENCE of such "stick aiming" methods as far back as ten years ago. Hal tried to explain to me what it was but I wasn't listening.
 
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