What exactly makes a Diamond the better table??
- Thread starter Cmbeers
- Start date
I like the GC better too. I find the rail speed/ bed speed ratio absolutly confustigating.
Of course setup/ condition is always a variable.
I think Donny is referring to the 'out-of-the-box' table. All bets are off if a good Mechanic has tuned it up.
But that GC will never be as quiet, truth.
But that GC will never be as quiet, truth.
I hate the castings on a GC !
I'll take the Diamond guy!
I seem to be talking to myself.
I'll just go now.
I'll just go now.
I have had both (GC III and Diamond Pro Am)
I sold the GC III for the Pro Am. Big differences:
PRO AM:
-has smooth flat rails (pockets are flush with with rails - no black marks on shafts)
-is MUCH quiter (GC sounds cheap with you fire a ball in - metal clang - big deal if you have hardwood floors).
- fastest ball return out there (and best)
- from a construction point of view best constructed table out there - easiest to work on and maintain (ask the mechanics) - leveling system second to none even with cloth on.
- option to have dymondwood rails - they never get beat up or dull or dent - one coat of wax and like coming from factory.
- resale value is high (price a used diamond vs gold crown). A GC like a car loses 50% value right out of show room floor. Just look at e-bay and see how many diamonds you find - most hold on to them.
- pockets play better (deep shelf and with 4.5 inch cut with better playing pocket opening). It plays tight but fair. My GC had inconsistent pocket openings - diamond has much better quality control. All their tables play the same.
- better rubber used on rails (I can get 5 and a half table lengths rebound on a ball).
- leather pockets (not the cheap plastic GC uses). Although it can leave a black smudge. Tip is to use magic eraser with water - comes right off.
These are just my personal observations.
I sold the GC III for the Pro Am. Big differences:
PRO AM:
-has smooth flat rails (pockets are flush with with rails - no black marks on shafts)
-is MUCH quiter (GC sounds cheap with you fire a ball in - metal clang - big deal if you have hardwood floors).
- fastest ball return out there (and best)
- from a construction point of view best constructed table out there - easiest to work on and maintain (ask the mechanics) - leveling system second to none even with cloth on.
- option to have dymondwood rails - they never get beat up or dull or dent - one coat of wax and like coming from factory.
- resale value is high (price a used diamond vs gold crown). A GC like a car loses 50% value right out of show room floor. Just look at e-bay and see how many diamonds you find - most hold on to them.
- pockets play better (deep shelf and with 4.5 inch cut with better playing pocket opening). It plays tight but fair. My GC had inconsistent pocket openings - diamond has much better quality control. All their tables play the same.
- better rubber used on rails (I can get 5 and a half table lengths rebound on a ball).
- leather pockets (not the cheap plastic GC uses). Although it can leave a black smudge. Tip is to use magic eraser with water - comes right off.
These are just my personal observations.
That's because you sleep-walk right into the Diamond, bounce off, and fall back over.
Look, I'm a fan of Diamond tables so let's not make this into me being a hater. But I gotta ask....
When do you actually need to make the ball go 5 and a half table lengths?
MULLY
Do you mean you prefer the wood on the corners and side pockets or you just dislike Brunswicks castings because they get in the way? I think that issue has been taken care of with the GC5. But again, I've only seen one GC5 and I didn't get close enough to give it a good once over.
MULLY
Many of these things related to cushion "rubber," pocket apertures / cut / angle / shelf / etc., are a moot issue -- they are things that are easily influenced by the mechanic setting up your table. So to say that one table is "better" than another table for something that a little time invested by the table mechanic isn't really fair. Put good rubber cushions on a Gold Crown, and have the mechanic use the proper technique of using longer cushions that extend into the pocket to tighten-up the pocket (instead of shimming), and you'll have a Gold Crown that is quite competitive to a Diamond. Shimming is just plain BAD -- first, it reduces the available playing area on the table by extending the cushion deeper into the playing area. Second, it makes the shelf deeper in the pockets (what if you don't want a deep shelf, but rather just a tighter pocket aperture?).
However, one thing that can't be faded are the non-mechanic-influenced things above, as well as that one-piece slate. You'll NEVER have the situation where the pieces of slate become misaligned on a Diamond, whereby a ball "jumps" or its path manipulated when rolling over the seam between the slate pieces. (And yes, I've seen this happen on Gold Crowns where they settled into one spot on the floor, and the three-piece slates became misaligned.)
I personally prefer the Diamond for overall quality and construction, the flat rail-tops, pocket construction, one-piece slate, and looks. And I'd been speaking of just 9-footers thus far; Diamond's 7-footers play just like the 9-footers, no difference whatsoever. And yes, in the 7-foot variety, I love that optical sensor -- FINALLY! A bar table where one can use a standard cue ball!!
-Sean
Responses
Hey Mullyman - I like fast tables - I play a lot of straight pool and it seems that on faster tables the balls open up better on break shots. Also there are some shots that were just impossible for me on my GC III that are possible on my Diamond. And I do like the wood corners AND the fact that the corner pockets dont get in the way. Shooting over the corner pocket feels no different that just being on a rail. The metal castings also increase the noise - you get a loud clank and I hated that sound. If you have seen the movie the Hustler Paul Newman upon first walking into aims slams a ball right down the rail and remarks "Nice clean pocket drop". Thats the best way to describe the diamond sound.
Hey Sfleinen - I see we are both straight pool players - thats one of the reasons I like the diamond over the GC (see above). With regard to your observation about pocket angle, shelf, size etc.. with a Diamond it COMES that way. No need to have the table "fixed". I dont know if you have priced it but having the sub rails extended (the correct way to reduce pocket size) aint cheap and having someone that can do it right isnt so easy to find.
Also - its pretty telling that you always here GC owners asking mechanics to "make my table play like a Diamond" and never the other way around.
Hey Mullyman - I like fast tables - I play a lot of straight pool and it seems that on faster tables the balls open up better on break shots. Also there are some shots that were just impossible for me on my GC III that are possible on my Diamond. And I do like the wood corners AND the fact that the corner pockets dont get in the way. Shooting over the corner pocket feels no different that just being on a rail. The metal castings also increase the noise - you get a loud clank and I hated that sound. If you have seen the movie the Hustler Paul Newman upon first walking into aims slams a ball right down the rail and remarks "Nice clean pocket drop". Thats the best way to describe the diamond sound.
Hey Sfleinen - I see we are both straight pool players - thats one of the reasons I like the diamond over the GC (see above). With regard to your observation about pocket angle, shelf, size etc.. with a Diamond it COMES that way. No need to have the table "fixed". I dont know if you have priced it but having the sub rails extended (the correct way to reduce pocket size) aint cheap and having someone that can do it right isnt so easy to find.
Also - its pretty telling that you always here GC owners asking mechanics to "make my table play like a Diamond" and never the other way around.
@topic,
in my opinion there are several tables which are built with much more quality than diamond-tables. Diamond tables are for sure not bad. But if you re watching for craftmanshop and *long-life-usability*, there would be several more tables who would be far better.
For reasons just talk to a table-mechanic, and i m sure he ll agree with my opinion). To descibe exactly the technical things unfortunatly my english wold be a bit too low and i don t want to write someting wrong caused by conversion problems.
And: a new installed table, installed by a good table mechanic is always a nice table...but for how long...that is the key imo^^
lg
Ingo
This is going to be the first post I make today, as I'm working on rebuilding the rails on a Brunswick Centenial 9ft right now but........I hate to correct you on what you said. I understand the Diamond ProAm is only about 8 years old at this point in time, BUT....having spend the last 27 years working on just about every kind of commercial pool table built or sold in this country...and being able to see the break down of the tables year after year of commercial use....the Diamond ProAm is going to turn out to be the LONGEST lasting table ever produced in the history of pool table manufacturing....and you can take that to the bank! In 30 years from now...when the finish has worn off, laminates have worn off, rails have been dented, burned, scratched...all the normal wear and tear tables go through in a commercial environment....the Diamond ProAm after buffing the rails out....is going to look just as new as the day it was delivered...is going to be just as level....and play just the same as day one, and be worth more than the day it was bought new. I'll get into this more fact based later on today after I finish working on this table
Glen
PS....I AM a table mechanic
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This is going to be the first post I make today, as I'm working on rebuilding the rails on a Brunswick Centenial 9ft right now but........I hate to correct you on what you said. I understand the Diamond ProAm is only about 8 years old at this point in time, BUT....having spend the last 27 years working on just about every kind of commercial pool table built or sold in this country...and being able to see the break down of the tables year after year of commercial use....the Diamond ProAm is going to turn out to be the LONGEST lasting table ever produced in the history of pool table manufacturing....and you can take that to the bank! In 30 years from now...when the finish has worn off, laminates have worn off, rails have been dented, burned, scratched...all the normal wear and tear tables go through in a commercial environment....the Diamond ProAm after buffing the rails out....is going to look just as new as the day it was delivered...is going to be just as level....and play just the same as day one, and be worth more than the day it was bought new. I'll get into this more fact based later on today after I finish working on this table
Glen
PS....I AM a table mechanic
Thank for the info Glen!
There has been some issues with the cushions playing fast on some Diamond tables...but I'm here to tell you that Diamond...unlike any other manufacturer is looking at this....not as a problem, but more as a question. A question of can we make our tables play even better than they already do...and the answer is yes...and they're working on it. Diamond is always looking into making their tables better and better....and as a top of the line table mechanic...that's what I do....I help Diamond with my knowleage...of things I've picked up and learned over the last 27 years. And I can tell you one thing for sure....Diamond listens to what I have to say...and sugest...and they don't take it personal.
When I break down the differences between tables, I'll be including the things about the Diamond tables that I also don't like...because believe it or not....I stay on the middle of the road....I'm not Pro Diamond or Pro Brunswick...or Gabriel's either for that matter, I am however "Pro" tables playing better
I do however spend a LOT of time working with the Diamond tables as most of you already know....as well as most of you know I do top notch work on ALL other tables I decide to work on...and that includes Valley tables as well. Glen
Those shots are rare, but is it an indication of how easy or possible it will be to do other shots.
The room I play in has 24 tables about equally split between GCIIIs and Medalists (Brunswick GC downgrade, looks similar). In the roughly 15 years that the room has been open, about 60 cushion-sections have died. They turn into something similar to pottery. Really, really bad. This started happening within 5 years of installation, and seemed to affect the GCs more than the Medalists, but it is evening out now. Brunswick provided no help -- evidently cushions are not covered under any sort of warranty. This lead to the spectacle of a local room owner screaming at the Brunswick people on the floor of the BCA Trade Show. He got to vent, but he got no help.
By way of contrast, there are Brunswick tables from before 1940 that still have playable original cushions.
I hate the metal on all tables. When you scrape your cue on them. The GC5 has this issue also. The fit of the castings is so poor that they stick up. If a good mechanic fixes the fitment issues there is still metal there. I also like how the top of the diamond rails are flat and not sloped as much as a GC, chalk doesn't fall off:thumbup:
One more observation
Diamond has realized that on average people are taller now than they were 50 years ago and have incorporated that into the table (the playing surface is at least an inch higher). May not seem like a big deal but if your tall and old like me the small tables can take a toll on your back (Donny Mills do you agree??). LOL
I always smile in that movie The Color of Money when Paul Newman bends down on that shot and remarks - did someone cut the legs out of this table - its a table made for Dwarfs!
Glen is right on the money - these tables will be around in 50 years and still play great!
On a side note - I dont think anybody has mentioned but the Diamond Light is the nuts as well. No shadows under the rails.
Diamond has realized that on average people are taller now than they were 50 years ago and have incorporated that into the table (the playing surface is at least an inch higher). May not seem like a big deal but if your tall and old like me the small tables can take a toll on your back (Donny Mills do you agree??). LOL
I always smile in that movie The Color of Money when Paul Newman bends down on that shot and remarks - did someone cut the legs out of this table - its a table made for Dwarfs!
Glen is right on the money - these tables will be around in 50 years and still play great!
On a side note - I dont think anybody has mentioned but the Diamond Light is the nuts as well. No shadows under the rails.