Cowboy Jimmy Moore - Obviously Using Center to Edge

I do not pivot on my last stroke,I set my back and step into the shot and pivot to center,that is where I take my warm up strokes,post pivot,and it is a hip pivot.I dont really hide the information,If someone lives close enough to me I will teach it to them.I just cant/wont put it on a public forum.
Peteypooldude
 
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If there's anyone out there who is successful pivoting on their last stroke like Jimmy, please post a video... I'm dying to see.

I can't get over the talent of this guy.
 
predator said:
OK, I saw those two short clips of this Cowboy guy who pivots at the last moment prior to stroke. Yes, it is obvious. And? I just don't think this is good technique at all regardless of how good he was.
I'm not that obsessed with fundamentals, but any kind of sideways movement of body, feet, hips or God forbid arm itself while in shooting stance already can't possibly be OK?
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Predator,

I expressed this same sentiment in a different CTE thread a while back and it was not very well received. I hope someone will address your question.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
Predator,

I expressed this same sentiment in a different CTE thread a while back and it was not very well received. I hope someone will address your question.

Roger
Click to expand...


In his own way, Predator has eloquently stated another version of what I've been trying to say. Namely, that while CTE may get you into a PSR, it may very well be a bad, or at least less than optimal PSR, for any given individual. You could be crippling your game.

Lou Figueroa
 
peteypooldude said:
I do not pivot on my last stroke,I set my back and step into the shot and pivot to center,that is where I take my warm up strokes,post pivot,and it is a hip pivot.I dont really hide the information,If someone lives close enough to me I will teach it to them.I just cant/wont put it on a public forum.
Peteypooldude
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Petey,

I can understand if it is a matter that you "can't" teach CTE in a public forum (no one else has been able to do it), but if it is simply a matter that you "won't," then I need to ask, why not? :confused:

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
Predator,

I expressed this same sentiment in a different CTE thread a while back and it was not very well received. I hope someone will address your question.

Roger
Click to expand...

First off-- no one does this but Cowboy. No one is saying it's the move. I've never seen it done successfully with the exception of Jimmy.

I'm lost --- someone show me where anyone is saying pivoting on the final stroke is a good thing? I only said Jimmy was talented for being able to do so. If you don't think he was, try it sometime and see how you make out.
 
lfigueroa said:
In his own way, Predator has eloquently stated another version of what I've been trying to say. Namely, that while CTE may get you into a PSR, it may very well be a bad, or at least less than optimal PSR, for any given individual. You could be crippling your game.

Lou Figueroa
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Yeah - that's nice.
 
That helps

peteypooldude said:
I do not pivot on my last stroke,I set my back and step into the shot and pivot to center,that is where I take my warm up strokes,post pivot,and it is a hip pivot.I dont really hide the information,If someone lives close enough to me I will teach it to them.I just cant/wont put it on a public forum.
Peteypooldude
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ppd-

That addresses a question I've had re 'post pivot'.

Earlier, I thot that after the 'pivot'- you just fire the center ball shot-without further motions. So, if you are taking warm up strokes 'post pivot' are you measureing cb speed? or are you visually confirming that the 'post pivot' stroke line (arrived at without reference to contact point/ghostball aiming) looks and feels right?

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If we are learning a different (mechanical/step/process)(structured pre shot routine) method for arriving at the correct aiming line-to me, part of the confirming visual feedback would be that the alignment looks and feels right.

If adding 'ghost ball' to the end of the process as a 'proof of concept' instead of at the outset building all alignment around GB/CP-works for me.

I know I need a little visual confirmation of the accuracy of the 'alignment system' before I can build overwhelming confidence in the system.

Thanks Petey

3railkick
 
SpiderWebComm said:
First off-- no one does this but Cowboy. No one is saying it's the move. I've never seen it done successfully with the exception of Jimmy.

I'm lost --- someone show me where anyone is saying pivoting on the final stroke is a good thing? I only said Jimmy was talented for being able to do so. If you don't think he was, try it sometime and see how you make out.
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Hey, Spidey, how ya been?

I think it's easy enough to see where the confusion comes in when the OP puts "Obviously Using Center to Edge" in the title of the thread. This would seem to imply that Jimmy Moore's method of using CTE is the typical method. Thank you for explaining that it is not. :thumbup:

However, I would like to reiterate my general feeling on the subject of pivoting. I see no harm in using an air pivot, but any type of pivot that is employed after the bridge hand is set is not something that I am comfortable in recommending to anyone. But then, this is probably due to my remaining ignorance in how CTE actually works. :(

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
Petey,

I can understand if it is a matter that you "can't" teach CTE in a public forum (no one else has been able to do it), but if it is simply a matter that you "won't," then I need to ask, why not? :confused:

Roger
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Well the answer to your first question is yes.I can teach it in a public forum,the second part of why not? is for one I worked too hard on it to give it away on a public scale,and two it is not my system.If it were to be published it should have been done by Hal,I dont think Stan should publish it either,but there is nothing I can do about it.There are a lot of CTE players scattered across the country ,I think it should be taught person to person.After all that has went on why not buy a plane ticket and fly to Myrtle Beach and I will teach it to you,as long as it does not go public.As long as this information has been around if the creator of it wanted it published it would already have happened.If you can get Hal to call me and say put it on the forum then I will.I hope this answers your questions
 
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3RAILKICK said:
ppd-

That addresses a question I've had re 'post pivot'.

Earlier, I thot that after the 'pivot'- you just fire the center ball shot-without further motions. So, if you are taking warm up strokes 'post pivot' are you measureing cb speed? or are you visually confirming that the 'post pivot' stroke line (arrived at without reference to contact point/ghostball aiming) looks and feels right?

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If we are learning a different (mechanical/step/process)(structured pre shot routine) method for arriving at the correct aiming line-to me, part of the confirming visual feedback would be that the alignment looks and feels right.

If adding 'ghost ball' to the end of the process as a 'proof of concept' instead of at the outset building all alignment around GB/CP-works for me.

I know I need a little visual confirmation of the accuracy of the 'alignment system' before I can build overwhelming confidence in the system.

Thanks Petey

3railkick
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Yes I do a visual check to make sure it looks right,though I trust it.When I teach it I will tell you to shoot it anyway though ,because it takes time for it to feel natural Peteypooldude
 
3RAILKICK said:
ppd-

That addresses a question I've had re 'post pivot'.

Earlier, I thot that after the 'pivot'- you just fire the center ball shot-without further motions. So, if you are taking warm up strokes 'post pivot' are you measureing cb speed? or are you visually confirming that the 'post pivot' stroke line (arrived at without reference to contact point/ghostball aiming) looks and feels right?

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If we are learning a different (mechanical/step/process)(structured pre shot routine) method for arriving at the correct aiming line-to me, part of the confirming visual feedback would be that the alignment looks and feels right.

If adding 'ghost ball' to the end of the process as a 'proof of concept' instead of at the outset building all alignment around GB/CP-works for me.

I know I need a little visual confirmation of the accuracy of the 'alignment system' before I can build overwhelming confidence in the system.

Thanks Petey

3railkick
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Great inquiry.:smile:

But...for the shot to look right, one would need to know where the target - pocket or other - is. All systems need to replace the ghost ball to work even though one might not realize this.

It has been repeatedly said before in other CTE threads that you don't need to look at the pocket...that you can put a blind in front of the OB and still hit the center of the pocket or sometimes miss.
 
LAMas said:
Great inquiry.:smile:

But...for the shot to look right, one would need to know where the target - pocket or other - is. All systems need to replace the ghost ball to work even though one might not realize this.

It has been repeatedly said before in other CTE threads that you don't need to look at the pocket...that you can put a blind in front of the OB and still hit the center of the pocket or sometimes miss.
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I dont use ghost balll,I just need to see the cb and ob
 
peteypooldude said:
Well the answer to your first question is yes.I can teach it in a public forum,the second part of why not? is for one I worked too hard on it to give it away on a public scale,and two it is not my system.If it were to be published it should have been done by Hal,I dont think Stan should publish it either,but there is nothing I can do about it.There are a lot of CTE players scattered across the country ,I think it should be taught person to person.After all that has went on why not buy a plane ticket and fly to Myrtle Beach and I will teach it to you,as long as it does not go public.As long as this information has been around if the creator of it wanted published it would already have happened.If you can get Hal to call me and say put it on the forum then I will.I hope this answers your questions
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks.
 
Roger Long said:
Hey, Spidey, how ya been?

I think it's easy enough to see where the confusion comes in when the OP puts "Obviously Using Center to Edge" in the title of the thread. This would seem to imply that Jimmy Moore's method of using CTE is the typical method. Thank you for explaining that it is not. :thumbup:

However, I would like to reiterate my general feeling on the subject of pivoting. I see no harm in using an air pivot, but any type of pivot that is employed after the bridge hand is set is not something that I am comfortable in recommending to anyone. But then, this is probably due to my remaining ignorance in how CTE actually works. :(

Roger
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I'm not sure how you can recommend one pivot technique over the other when you don't pivot yourself as a player. There's nothing wrong with a mechanical / table pivot. That's how I play and I make balls ok. I definitely wouldn't consider myself to have bad technique.

You say pivoting after setting the bridge is bad - but that makes no sense. When a CTE player sets his/her bridge, the final aim point (if utilizing a mechanical pivot) is undefined. Therefore, it's not like you're messing up your aim by moving your cue. Your final aim line is determined after you pivot to center ball.

I think your reasoning is logical based on your understanding of aiming mechanics to date. However, if you're going to be successful with CTE (and teach it as you've previously stated), you need to not smash CTE into your set/shoot methodology. They're different animals and you won't be successful forcing one into the other.

Air pivoting can be taught, somewhat, but it's mostly developed. People stand differently... different body types....different ways of addressing the CB. It also requires highly developed visual acuity. I don't see players under an advanced level becoming great air pivoters. I can do it for a period of time; however, I introduce variations over time that make me miss because I'm not super-refined in my motions. When that happens, I go back to a table pivot. Overall, no matter how well I play-- I like to pivot on the table.

Someone commented to me recently that CTE is a method of playing as it is an aiming system. CTE is to pool as BJJ is to martial arts, or how the Suzuki Method is to playing a string instrument. It's a style/method of going about something.

I don't think anyone will be successful teaching CTE unless they are a successful CTE player themselves.
 
lfigueroa said:
OK, thanks, TPS. So... just trying to keep this straight, so far we have: The Table Pivot; The Air Pivot; The Hip Pivot; I think I saw an Elbow Pivot; and then The Pivot That Hides The Pivot So You Can't See I'm Pivoting Pivot.

Have I missed one, or is that it? Anyone?

Lou Figueroa
speak up now
or forever hold
your pivot :-)
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Didn't the late great Slim Pickens once say "Pivot on you, man. I'm workin for Mel Brooks." Or did I hear it wrong? 1:35 on the clip below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMK6lzmSk2o
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You say pivoting after setting the bridge is bad - but that makes no sense.
Click to expand...

I didn't say pivoting after setting the bridge is "bad," I said it "is not something that I am comfortable in recommending to anyone." There is a difference.

Just for the record, I don't ever stress one method over another with my students, especially when it comes to aiming. If they are having difficulty seeing where to shoot the ball, I like to be able to offer them various methods until we find the one that suits them best. And that point right there constitutes the bulk of my interest in CTE.

Roger
 
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