whats the best non simonis cloth on the market

Roger Long said:
Sorry, John, but you are the one who doesn't "get it." So let me put this on a level that even YOU might understand:

You are a fool. Plain and simple. You talk out of one side of your mouth one day, and out the other side the next. Do you ever say anything that makes sense?

Oh, and please bad mouth my cues all you want because I'm sure it will only help to convince more people that they should buy them. :p

Have a nice day. :wink:

Roger
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Bad mouth your cues? Where did I do that?

Why would I do that? I have never held or played with one of your cues.

I was using your own claims about your cues as an example to teach you the basic principles of marketing.

As for making "sense" I would suggest highly that you take a little time to understand that you are like the person chained in the cave who refuses to believe in something you have not experienced. (Plato's Allegory of the Cave). To that type of person no amount of logic and relation of truth will make sense.

It's funny on the way to work my wife was telling me about a television show she watched where the parents were teaching their 3 year olds how to understand patience, saving, and value with success and I commented that some adults on AZ don't even get those concepts. Of course I was thinking primarily of you when I said it.
 
JB Cases said:
It's funny on the way to work my wife was telling me about a television show she watched where the parents were teaching their 3 year olds how to understand patience, saving, and value with success and I commented that some adults on AZ don't even get those concepts. Of course I was thinking primarily of you when I said it.
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Maybe, maybe not. At least I don't have to move all the way to China to try and find my "success." :D

Roger
 
realkingcobra said:
You only THINK you have top mechanics, I've heard that a million times;)

Glen
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You're the best Glen. You have advertised that claim so much on here that it MUST be true.

That's what this is really about isn't it?

You have to tell us all how great you are and because you can put fabric on a table better than everyone else on Earth (according to you) then you must therefore be right on which of those fabric brands is "the best" right?

I am sure all those other table mechanics bow to your superiority.

You're the best.
 
I forgot; Simonis is the best cloth available, but Velocity Pro has the best price on the market. I have a sample of Milliken and it looks to be pretty good, but I priced it last week and its price is too close to that of Simonis to bother with trying it.

Roger

p.s. JB, please honor your word and put me on SUPER IGNORE.
 
From one salesman to another, don't get too crazy, tomorrow you might be working for the other company
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I'm not a salesman John...I'm a craftsman, and in my line of work...I only use the best equipment and supplies available to me. I learned a long time ago, that it didn't matter how good I recovered a pool table in a bar...if the cloth failed...I failed, and the bar owner hired someone else to recover the pool table the next time...only then to find out that the mechanic didn't know what the hell he was doing, so the bar owner would call me back...only to find out that no...I wouldn't come out and fix the table right, and recover it again...he made the choice to call in someone else based on the cloth I used...so he could live with it.

But, lessons learned...I looked for a better cloth than what all the other mechanic's were useing...and in 1985 I came across Simonis, tried it, liked it, and started using it. Now don't get me wrong John, I've tried other cloths...Miliken, Championship, Granito, Mali, Stevens, Charles House, Warren, Stealth...the list goes on and on...but, nothing was as good as Simonis. I even tested new weaves of Simonis cloth...because I ended up being that close with Simonis. At one time I was one of the largest buyers of Simonis cloth in this country....recovering more that 1,000 tables a year...not selling the cloth...but installing it.

So John...don't sit there being a computer keyboard cowboy...and tell me how this game is played...EVERYONE that sells a worsted wool cloth... compares their cloth to Simonis...and says it's better, lasts longer, plays better...and in lab tests................BECAUSE Simonis is the best and they need some kind of stamp of approval to market their cloth...so EVERYONE tries knocking on Simonis...after all, who else are they going to try and compete with?....each other?

Glen

PS. What has Miliken ever done for me?...They've never put a dime in MY pocket. Never been there when I needed them...Simonis has though. For 26 years I've been in business with Simonis...and you expect me to drop them...for a cloth that YOU say is better?...Let me tell you something John....if your cloth was exactly the SAME as Simonis in AAAAALLLLL tests....I still wouldn't change from Simonis....because any day I can call and talk to Ivan DIRECTLY...and NOT have to go through a SALES PERSON to talk to the person in charge....even if it's to say hi...or to ***** about something.......I'm NOT changing...and most all the "TOP" mechanics I know feel the same way.

And let me tell you something else buddy, if you don't get the real "TOP" mechanics to endorse your cloth....it's never going to get out of that market share that ALL other worsted wool cloths are in competing for Simonis's business.

Glen
 
JB Cases said:
You're the best Glen. You have advertised that claim so much on here that it MUST be true.

That's what this is really about isn't it?

You have to tell us all how great you are and because you can put fabric on a table better than everyone else on Earth (according to you) then you must therefore be right on which of those fabric brands is "the best" right?

I am sure all those other table mechanics bow to your superiority.

You're the best.
Click to expand...

If you think that being a top mechanic is only about installing cloth on a table...then you are truely lost John. I show my work here on AZ as a way of raising the bar for other mechanics to strive to do better work...to better themselves as mechanics...to have more pride in what they do AS mechanics...to be able to see what top mechanic work is really like. What are YOU doing to better this industry?...I just had 2 mechanics fly out from Ohio to spend almost 3 weeks with me to better their skills...so that going back home they can work as better mechanics.

I'm picking up another mechanic from Phoenix, AZ on Monday in Vegas, he's going on the road with me for about 4 to 6 weeks....to learn what it is to be a top mechanic....so he can go back to Phoenix, AZ....and work as a top mechanic.

WHAT have YOU done to better this industry John????????

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
I'm not a salesman John...I'm a craftsman, and in my line of work...I only use the best equipment and supplies available to me. I learned a long time ago, that it didn't matter how good I recovered a pool table in a bar...if the cloth failed...I failed, and the bar owner hired someone else to recover the pool table the next time...only then to find out that the mechanic didn't know what the hell he was doing, so the bar owner would call me back...only to find out that no...I wouldn't come out and fix the table right, and recover it again...he made the choice to call in someone else based on the cloth I used...so he could live with it.

But, lessons learned...I looked for a better cloth than what all the other mechanic's were useing...and in 1985 I came across Simonis, tried it, liked it, and started using it. Now don't get me wrong John, I've tried other cloths...Miliken, Championship, Granito, Mali, Stevens, Charles House, Warren, Stealth...the list goes on and on...but, nothing was as good as Simonis. I even tested new weaves of Simonis cloth...because I ended up being that close with Simonis. At one time I was one of the largest buyers of Simonis cloth in this country....recovering more that 1,000 tables a year...not selling the cloth...but installing it.

So John...don't sit there being a computer keyboard cowboy...and tell me how this game is played...EVERYONE that sells a worsted wool cloth... compares their cloth to Simonis...and says it's better, lasts longer, plays better...and in lab tests................BECAUSE Simonis is the best and they need some kind of stamp of approval to market their cloth...so EVERYONE tries knocking on Simonis...after all, who else are they going to try and compete with?....each other?

Glen

PS. What has Miliken ever done for me?...They've never put a dime in MY pocket. Never been there when I needed them...Simonis has though. For 26 years I've been in business with Simonis...and you expect me to drop them...for a cloth that YOU say is better?...Let me tell you something John....if your cloth was exactly the SAME as Simonis in AAAAALLLLL tests....I still wouldn't change from Simonis....because any day I can call and talk to Ivan DIRECTLY...and NOT have to go through a SALES PERSON to talk to the person in charge....even if it's to say hi...or to ***** about something.......I'm NOT changing...and most all the "TOP" mechanics I know feel the same way.

And let me tell you something else buddy, if you don't get the real "TOP" mechanics to endorse your cloth....it's never going to get out of that market share that ALL other worsted wool cloths are in competing for Simonis's business.

Glen
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And with this attitude I doubt that Milliken will ever do anything for you.

You do understand that Simonis USA is a warehouse and Ivan is an employee (salesman) right? You do understand that they don't manufacture the cloth in the USA in Chicago right?

They are a distributer just like us. Before Ivan went to work for Simonis he made cues and sold cue parts. He isn't a weaver, doesn't have a long history of making fabrics. He is doing a job selling pool table cloth using the speicfications that the factory provides.

But aside from that you need to calm down. I know a little bit about going over the top in super defense mode. Even if you are right you still look bad. This is like looking in a mirror.

Of course everyone compares their cloth to Simonis. Simonis has made themselves into the standard by which all others are judged when it comes to worsted wool pool table clothes.

So what? Are you trying to say that no one else has the right to compare themselves to Simonis? Are you trying to say that Simonis is and always will be the best?

Well if so then you are a bit out of touch with how the world works.

First of all ANY decent mill can make cloth that is 100% identical to every type of Simonis. Weaving technology is not that mysterious and the big mills are able to examine how fabric is made down to the microns.

Secondly it's entirely possible that another mill MIGHT have reverse engineered the way Simonis does their cloth and figured out a way to make the cloth "better" across a range of characteristics.

Third, your loyalty is commendable. Every company wishes for a legion of unpaid evangelists like you. However the title of this thread is "What's the best NON-Simonis cloth on the market" and not "please guilt trip me into buying Simonis."
 
realkingcobra said:
If you think that being a top mechanic is only about installing cloth on a table...then you are truely lost John. I show my work here on AZ as a way of raising the bar for other mechanics to strive to do better work...to better themselves as mechanics...to have more pride in what they do AS mechanics...to be able to see what top mechanic work is really like. What are YOU doing to better this industry?...I just had 2 mechanics fly out from Ohio to spend almost 3 weeks with me to better their skills...so that going back home they can work as better mechanics.

I'm picking up another mechanic from Phoenix, AZ on Monday in Vegas, he's going on the road with me for about 4 to 6 weeks....to learn what it is to be a top mechanic....so he can go back to Phoenix, AZ....and work as a top mechanic.

WHAT have YOU done to better this industry John????????

Glen
Click to expand...

Nothing Glen. I have done nothing to better the industry. You are the best and this thread is all about how you are the best.

I think you will get into the BCA Hall of Fame for your service to the world when it comes to putting a pool table together. No one should ever forget that you are the best that ever lived or ever will live and if they should I am sure that you will be right there to remind them of it.

I am starting to realize that this is probably how I look to most people. How annoying.
 
Roger Long said:
I forgot; Simonis is the best cloth available, but Velocity Pro has the best price on the market. I have a sample of Milliken and it looks to be pretty good, but I priced it last week and its price is too close to that of Simonis to bother with trying it.

Roger

p.s. JB, please honor your word and put me on SUPER IGNORE.
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You are on ignore on Firefox. But since I am using Chrome and you are addressing me then I will answer you. Plus it's kind of fun to crush your weak posts.

I like how you SIDESTEP every QUESTION I ask you. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Is that some kind of peyote dance they teach you in the Sonoran desert? The dodge the logic game? Cuz you're really good at it.

You have a sample of Milliken? I bet you don't. But if you do then did you pay for it?

I am curious because we did a promotion where we gave away the cloth to people claiming to be installers if they promised to install it and tell us what they thought. Were you one of those people who took the free cloth and didn't honor the promise? If so would you please send it back or let us know where to send the bill?

After all a good Christian man like yourself would never consider taking a free sample and not honoring your promise to test the cloth would you?

I am sure no answers to these questions will be coming. To you a question mark is like sunlight to a vampire.
 
Roger Long said:
Maybe, maybe not. At least I don't have to move all the way to China to try and find my "success." :D

Roger
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Nope, you have learned to be an idiot without having to go anywhere.

You can act as if you know how to play and trap newbies into paying you for lessons - be a half-assed cuemaker - and a general annoyance all from your retirement home.

"On the internet no one knows you are a dog"

That about sums up how I view you.
 
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Non Simmons

244319961_d941927357_b.jpg


Simmons

32genesimmons.jpg

Opps we are talking about cloth. My bad. :D
 
What on earth is going on with this thread?

Some folks here really need to get laid.
 
bobroberts said:
John, don't want to start with you but you always seem to be getting into fights on AZ.
I think you need to cool down and sell your cases not arguing.
BTW they are a fine product.
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Well, it's a tough job stamping out the ignorance. :-) Trolls are worse than mushrooms on a dung heap.

I mean check it out Bob - I made ONE comment at the start of this thread which is obviously my opinon with a link.

For that I get called - gasp - a SALESMAN - oh the horror.

Then, as if I don't have my hands full trying to tame the cobra along comes Roger Long trying to apply some "english" to the conversation with his insults while at the same time offering NO VALUE to the topic.

So yeah, I do get into some doozies - but like I said someone has to keep the inmates from running the asylum.

When I have a case to sell Karen will on that. She is already pissed that I can't leave this forum alone. Someday I will get over it. For the time being I will just keep soulcrushing (my new favorite internet word) the trolls whenever it comes up.

I SHOULD just use Firefox and let the Super Ignore do it's job. In fact - that's what I am going to do. Bet you a drink at next year's SBE that manwon posts after this trying to antagonize me. :-)
 
JB Cases said:
Well, it's a tough job stamping out the ignorance. :-) Trolls are worse than mushrooms on a dung heap.

I mean check it out Bob - I made ONE comment at the start of this thread which is obviously my opinon with a link.

For that I get called - gasp - a SALESMAN - oh the horror.

Then, as if I don't have my hands full trying to tame the cobra along comes Roger Long trying to apply some "english" to the conversation with his insults while at the same time offering NO VALUE to the topic.

So yeah, I do get into some doozies - but like I said someone has to keep the inmates from running the asylum.

When I have a case to sell Karen will on that. She is already pissed that I can't leave this forum alone. Someday I will get over it. For the time being I will just keep soulcrushing (my new favorite internet word) the trolls whenever it comes up.

I SHOULD just use Firefox and let the Super Ignore do it's job. In fact - that's what I am going to do. Bet you a drink at next year's SBE that manwon posts after this trying to antagonize me. :-)
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Well that post was meant to be antagonistic...but that's OK John...I have you figured out. You would like me to screw my friends in business...so that you can make money...that's the American way after all...isn't it? I mean it's clear that anyone that don't agree with your sales products obviously don't know what they're doing...and need you to straighten them out...and lead them down the right path in life...or face being ignorant trolls. Sell the OP some cloth buddy....after all, he was asking for second best cloth to Simonis...right;)
 
Ok....I have finally had enough of this.

John, Craig and Roger.....all of you....the very next time you post anything toward each other will be the last thing you do here. I don't care if you say even "Good Morning", you will be done.


I have been as patient as I think anyone would dare ask with my handeling of you, but alas....the party IS over.


John, you especially.

Take Craigs picture down right now.
 
think about the installation

i spent $500.00 having 860 installed on my 8 ft brunswick highlander. it played o.k. but not quite what i expected. i decided to redo the table myself. once again i installed the 860, but spent a bit more time getting the cloth as perfect as i could, and i stretched it a bit tighter than the pros had done, now the table plays light out.
as has been stated many times before, its not the arrow, its the indian.

chuck starkey
 
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