In my opinion, today's players, coming from such a larger swath of terra firma, would mop the floor with the players of old.
Old 9-ball players vs the New
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
i know some of the old that would still be hard to beat even while in their late 50's to mid 60's. If you go to pool action t.v., you can see one that i'm talking about. He played Tommy Kennedy and lost on purpose, we weren't there for the tournament. He didn't give his real name and amazing all the older crowd said he's not showing everything and indeed they are right. He is one of pool's history and all the young ones never knew who he was....Putnam made a statement that he was probably nervous playing on the new cloth and T.V. lights...lol.
Keith McCready
Pro Player
Poolnut, I swore that I wasn't going to post anymore on these forums, but I have to speak my piece about this one.
I just can't imagine the pool players of today mopping the floor of the old school players of yesterday. I can go on and on, name after name, and believe me, it would be a war.
If there was a party with a table of old school players and a table of new school players, everybody that I know would much rather be at the old school table. They not only had some serious stories but they surely would out-bet the players of today, not to mention they played all games, played all day and all night, and they were not just a one-trick pony specializing in just one game.
Back then, it was one for one and one for all. Everybody would muscle up and take no prisoners. With the players of today, most of them, all they want to do is shake somebody's hand and move on.
The atmosphere and the excitement was so much better back then than it is now, it's not even close. It's like going to watch Elvis Presley or Kathy Griffin. It's like a Cadillac to a Volkswagen. Say what you want, but I don't see the players of today mopping up the floor with the players of my generation. And I hate to say it, they surely don't have the personality, with the exception of a few, and that's why they can't sell the tickets in the box office.
Good Thread.
As with most sports, it evolves over time and the athletes perform better as more knowledge is acquired and more attention is paid to development/training, especially with the younger players.
It isn't just breaking that separates the players of yesteryear from today's players.
It is my belief that given the same environment yesteryear's players would play just as well as today's players. Kicking, breaking, stroke, patterns and virtually every aspect of the game has undergone fine-tuning over the past 50 years and as more and more information is available to the younger players at an earlier age, we will see better performance from them. The only exception to this is that when the equipment changes (tighter pockets, faster cloth, different height rails etc) it will be more difficult to determine the increased performance. I guess it kind of depends on how you rate performance. Some of those 5" pockets of yesteryear would shock some of the players of today. The older, wooly mammoth cloth in high humidity conditions would require today's players to make huge adjustments to their stroke and how they play patterns.
It is difficult for some people to accept the fact that younger people who are exposed to better knowledge at an earler age are far more likely to "get it" and perform better than some of their older counterparts.
Talent is talent and it will be there no matter what the environment but the environment in which the game is played makes THE DIFFERENCE and if you compare yesteryear's players with today's players, today's players have "different" knowledge about pool's current environment.
The thing that sticks out in our minds (for those of us who remember) about players of the past is HOW THEY DOMINATED their peers for decades at a time.
That type of long term domination no longer exists in today's pool world. There are far more people with a great deal of knowledge than there were years ago and that is why today's players are UNABLE to dominate like the players of yesteryear.
As with most sports, it evolves over time and the athletes perform better as more knowledge is acquired and more attention is paid to development/training, especially with the younger players.
It isn't just breaking that separates the players of yesteryear from today's players.
It is my belief that given the same environment yesteryear's players would play just as well as today's players. Kicking, breaking, stroke, patterns and virtually every aspect of the game has undergone fine-tuning over the past 50 years and as more and more information is available to the younger players at an earlier age, we will see better performance from them. The only exception to this is that when the equipment changes (tighter pockets, faster cloth, different height rails etc) it will be more difficult to determine the increased performance. I guess it kind of depends on how you rate performance. Some of those 5" pockets of yesteryear would shock some of the players of today. The older, wooly mammoth cloth in high humidity conditions would require today's players to make huge adjustments to their stroke and how they play patterns.
It is difficult for some people to accept the fact that younger people who are exposed to better knowledge at an earler age are far more likely to "get it" and perform better than some of their older counterparts.
Talent is talent and it will be there no matter what the environment but the environment in which the game is played makes THE DIFFERENCE and if you compare yesteryear's players with today's players, today's players have "different" knowledge about pool's current environment.
The thing that sticks out in our minds (for those of us who remember) about players of the past is HOW THEY DOMINATED their peers for decades at a time.
That type of long term domination no longer exists in today's pool world. There are far more people with a great deal of knowledge than there were years ago and that is why today's players are UNABLE to dominate like the players of yesteryear.
Poolnut, I swore that I wasn't going to post anymore on these forums, but I have to speak my piece about this one.
I just can't imagine the pool players of today mopping the floor of the old school players of yesterday. I can go on and on, name after name, and believe me, it would be a war.
If there was a party with a table of old school players and a table of new school players, everybody that I know would much rather be at the old school table. They not only had some serious stories but they surely would out-bet the players of today, not to mention they played all games, played all day and all night, and they were not just a one-trick pony specializing in just one game.
Back then, it was one for one and one for all. Everybody would muscle up and take no prisoners. With the players of today, most of them, all they want to do is shake somebody's hand and move on.
The atmosphere and the excitement was so much better back then than it is now, it's not even close. It's like going to watch Elvis Presley or Kathy Griffin. It's like a Cadillac to a Volkswagen. Say what you want, but I don't see the players of today mopping up the floor with the players of my generation. And I hate to say it, they surely don't have the personality, with the exception of a few, and that's why they can't sell the tickets in the box office.
Well, I for one am glad that you continue to drop in from time to time. Your contributions and the contributions of other pros like Bartrum and Schmidt to this forum made this place what it is.
I agree 100 percent that most people would rather hang with the American old-timers of the 60's and 70's. Count me in. The gift of gab was rested on the feet of the old guard. But that's not what the original poster asked.
I have watched a lot of footage of Johnson City and tons of other old tournament matches. If the equipment from back then (60's, 70's) was used at the WPC 2011, we would quickly hear about how easy the tables were playing. I have yet to see any archival footage of Mosconi playing on a table that would be considered tough today.
Back when Mosconi ran his 526, how many shooters do you think could have topped him, had they been given 6 months? How many of today's players do you think could top 526 given 6 months especially on that equipment? The field of worldwide talent today has never been seen before. The few American players that seem to be mentioned when we pine for the golden years, could not possibly fade all the players of today.
Let me be clear though; That doesn't diminish their accomplishments and their lore.
Comparing Elvis to Kathy Griffin is like comparing you to me. We both play pool, but you're obviously at a different level than me. I think a better comparison would be Elvis and Mariah Carey.
Elvis has the chops and gets the ladies. We would all love to sit and listen to his stories of the road. Mariah, while technically can outsing Elvis, has the personality of a turnip. Agreed?
And that's all the original poster is asking. Who is the better singer? Who is the better pool player? My vote is the new guard.
On another note, I wish you would learn to fade the idiots that seem to come out of the woodwork when you post. Put those dummmies on ignore and keep your chin up. That goes for Jen too. Just ignore their dumb asses.
Your input here on this forum is missed.
To say top players of today are not better players,
That is the same as saying the game has stood still. And more information and more top competitors to compete against is not an advantage and makes no difference .
Are cars better today? I guess knowledge is not power . During the Mosconi
era,there were only like 8 or 12 top pros who competed against each other.
My father in law is 70 ,and has been a pool nut his whole life and I have had this conversation with him many times . He will tell you the players of today are superior. The tournaments now have 128 players to beat to get the trophy . That in itself should say a great deal . If greanleaf and Lassiter were born 25 years ago then yes they could play with the best . If you took any of them at their prime and put them on todays equipment against SVB in a race to 100 nine ball,I don't think it would be close . They played on buckets and slow cloth and shot at everything . It is a completely different game and should not be compared . It is apples against oranges .
That is the same as saying the game has stood still. And more information and more top competitors to compete against is not an advantage and makes no difference .
Are cars better today? I guess knowledge is not power . During the Mosconi
era,there were only like 8 or 12 top pros who competed against each other.
My father in law is 70 ,and has been a pool nut his whole life and I have had this conversation with him many times . He will tell you the players of today are superior. The tournaments now have 128 players to beat to get the trophy . That in itself should say a great deal . If greanleaf and Lassiter were born 25 years ago then yes they could play with the best . If you took any of them at their prime and put them on todays equipment against SVB in a race to 100 nine ball,I don't think it would be close . They played on buckets and slow cloth and shot at everything . It is a completely different game and should not be compared . It is apples against oranges .
Wouldn't it be interesting to see Willie Mosconi play on a Diamond table with Simonis 860 cloth, shooting with a Predator cue?
Conversely, I wonder how SVB would enjoy playing on a 5-by-10 table with slow cloth and shoot each shot, to include the break, with an ivory ferrule and leather tipped cue.
Now, there would be a battle to behold, but guess what, it's anybody's guess who would win. I kind of think they'd both be struggling at first. :grin:
Conversely, I wonder how SVB would enjoy playing on a 5-by-10 table with slow cloth and shoot each shot, to include the break, with an ivory ferrule and leather tipped cue.
Now, there would be a battle to behold, but guess what, it's anybody's guess who would win. I kind of think they'd both be struggling at first. :grin:
My ancestors hailed from the Oconaluftee Mountains. I'm sure you know where they are.
I've been eyeballing homes in that area. I am on the verge of retiring and think North Carolina is a place I'd like to live. The people there are genuinely nice, and I will still be able to enjoy the change of the four seasons.
Here's a thought for you. If the top players of today had to go back 30-40 years and play the top players of the 70's "push-out" 9-Ball on slow cloth, none of them would play! Except the filipinos of course. Those guys will play pool on the floor. :thumbup:
Yeah and most of the Filipinos learned to play outdoors! Can you imagine trying to play in the Equatorial heat, outdoors, on cloth that may not even have been made for a pool table with Jeepneys passing by just feet from the pool tables? They had to develop a hell of a stroke, the ability to adjust and have a concentration level that is amazing just to play at all!
I agree with this and jams last post about it :yeah:
I'll bet if poolrooms covered one table with slow cloth and 5" pockets that table would be busy all the time in most rooms. If there were enough of the slow tables around we could get to see how the players of now play on them compared to the fast cloth. My guess would be they wouldn't mind it after they got use to it.
I have slow backed cloth on my table now and love it. Granted, it's just a 7' table but you can stroke the ball intead of rolling the ball. I say bring the slow stuff back. Many never played on it so they really don't know if they like it or not. Johnnyt
I have slow backed cloth on my table now and love it. Granted, it's just a 7' table but you can stroke the ball intead of rolling the ball. I say bring the slow stuff back. Many never played on it so they really don't know if they like it or not. Johnnyt
Everything was always better in the past...
lol
lol
You're right about Ceulemans but as the young players started to raise the bar so did Ceulemans, Winning the UMB World Championship in 2001 at age 64. There just weren't any players for most of his career that averaged 2.0 therefore he didn't need to get there. But he's a real live example of an old timer playing modern players. As the champion he is and was he adapted and competed at the new higher level. Heck he's one of the reasons they started playing 25 point games instead of 50. Not much chance in a long game.
Old vs New
Great Players can play in any era,
The Tournament tables in the 30 's 40's pockets were not as big as you think
Pictures show yes they were bigger, but the equipment today ,, sticks - tips - balls cloth are better,
So I think this is a wash
Also they played on 5x10 - These guys also played pool all the time on the road with brunswick doing exhibitions 2 a day,,
There are more great players today of course..
Guys like Greenleaf Mosconi Crane Lassiter Caras Sigel Mizerak etc....
I want to see the Asian Cup- Like Mosconi cup
China vs Pinoy
China is never mentioned..
They do not come to play in US events
Yang - Wu - Chao - Kuo and others.. they can play
And may beat the pinoy's
Efren is a 80's player who just one player of the decade.
Read Willie's Game.. Mosconi went out every night and gambled.
Same with Greenleaf,.
2011 Hall of Fame think about
Fong Pang Chao - Oliver Ortmann.
Great Players can play in any era,
The Tournament tables in the 30 's 40's pockets were not as big as you think
Pictures show yes they were bigger, but the equipment today ,, sticks - tips - balls cloth are better,
So I think this is a wash
Also they played on 5x10 - These guys also played pool all the time on the road with brunswick doing exhibitions 2 a day,,
There are more great players today of course..
Guys like Greenleaf Mosconi Crane Lassiter Caras Sigel Mizerak etc....
I want to see the Asian Cup- Like Mosconi cup
China vs Pinoy
China is never mentioned..
They do not come to play in US events
Yang - Wu - Chao - Kuo and others.. they can play
And may beat the pinoy's
Efren is a 80's player who just one player of the decade.
Read Willie's Game.. Mosconi went out every night and gambled.
Same with Greenleaf,.
2011 Hall of Fame think about
Fong Pang Chao - Oliver Ortmann.
Certainly great, deserving players, BUT, until Danny DiLiberto, who's won titles in 4 consecutive decades, is inducted, I can't support any of the younger players, or for that matter give much credence to the BCA Hall of Fame! If the older players are constantly overlooked, the people today will forget about their accomplishments, which I find unacceptable. Danny is 75 years old and still contributes to the sport by the commentary and lessons he still gives. He should come first!