Does it pay to be a gentleman??

P

poolmaster

Devilish
Silver Member
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
 
I try to make decisions based upon what is best for everyone.

When someone is being selfish (trying to take advantage of someone), I will not give in to them because of the condition above. Now, that does not mean you aren't a gentleman.

You can still be a gentleman without letting people get over on you.
 
when in Rome

poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...



I'd like to say that old school values are always best. However when you are dealing with people that don't even consider these things you can be handicapping yourself. That may or may not be of importance on the pool table but I have found that for the most part it doesn't pay to be a gentleman in the business world and when dealing with the general public. Too many mistake courtesy and manners for weakness.

I start with the assumption that the other person has gentlemanly or ladylike ethics but when I find these things aren't true then while I won't abandon my basic ethics neither will I give the other person the little courtesies I extend to civilized people.

An extreme example is the way the war in Iraq is being conducted right now. Our soldiers are under far tighter restrictions than any cop on a beat in the USA. They are under tighter restrictions than anyone in the USA period, legally or illegally. The other side fights with absolutely no rules whatsoever. It's no surprise that after a hugely successful war conducted under far looser rules we are struggling with what should be comparatively simple mop up.

Another example, the Japanese have applied the rules of war to business for over fifty years. We work under a different set of ethics as a whole. One reason we fair comparatively poorly against them in head to head competition and exactly how they have managed to take over sector after sector of US manufacturing.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
I'd like to say that old school values are always best. However when you are dealing with people that don't even consider these things you can be handicapping yourself. That may or may not be of importance on the pool table but I have found that for the most part it doesn't pay to be a gentleman in the business world and when dealing with the general public. Too many mistake courtesy and manners for weakness.

I start with the assumption that the other person has gentlemanly or ladylike ethics but when I find these things aren't true then while I won't abandon my basic ethics neither will I give the other person the little courtesies I extend to civilized people.

An extreme example is the way the war in Iraq is being conducted right now. Our soldiers are under far tighter restrictions than any cop on a beat in the USA. They are under tighter restrictions than anyone in the USA period, legally or illegally. The other side fights with absolutely no rules whatsoever. It's no surprise that after a hugely successful war conducted under far looser rules we are struggling with what should be comparatively simple mop up.

Another example, the Japanese have applied the rules of war to business for over fifty years. We work under a different set of ethics as a whole. One reason we fair comparatively poorly against them in head to head competition and exactly how they have managed to take over sector after sector of US manufacturing.

Hu
Click to expand...
It is so true what you've said. Being good is often translated to be weak. How pathetic
is that? I guess this is the reality of the world, and we have to live with it, don't we?
 
There's a difference between being a "nice guy" or gentleman and being a chump. It's not too hard to protect yourself while being cordial and respectful. Explaining a little about your apprehension should preserve your "gentleman" status while continuing to protect yourself.
 
poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...

I'm a firm believer in Karma! What comes around goes around!

I try to live by 2 main rules in this respect.

1) The Golden Rule (Hope I don't have to explain this one!)

2) Screw me once, Shame on you! Screw me twice, Shame on me!
 
I believe that Karma is very powerful so I try to conduct myself as a gentleman. I'm successful most of the time.

Brian in VA
 
I would have to say that if you are not very careful it no longer pays to be a gentleman. I still consider myself to be one and I have no intention to change the way I do things just because some ppl suffer from a questionable upbringing. I do go about it much more cautiously then I once did. There is a hard balance to find between being a gentleman and opening yourself up. I agree with cuesmith's #2 as a guide for when to back out of my gentlemanly nature. “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”.

I might get suckered from time to time (never twice), but after the anger goes away I find that I can still sleep good at night. To me that accounts for a lot.

Just try and play it smart.
 
I am struggling with this right now in many relationships in my life. I try to be a nice person and help out with things that people need, but it seems that they never appreciate it. I am in a constant struggle to try and continue to "do the right thing". I feel like everyone will take whatever they can from you and many will keep taking until there is nothing left.

Sometimes I become so drained I have to take a break and have some time to recharge. I'm getting very close to just saying screw it and becoming one of the takers. I guess I just need another charge.
 
In the long run, regarding how I feel about myself, yes. If I'm not, I'm stooping to the level of those who don't give a damn and I try hard not to do that. I try to apply that to everything in my life and sometimes it's not easy but at the end of the day I'll feel better about it than if I don't.
 
Sax said:
I would have to say that if you are not very careful it no longer pays to be a gentleman. I still consider myself to be one and I have no intention to change the way I do things just because some ppl suffer from a questionable upbringing. I do go about it much more cautiously then I once did. There is a hard balance to find between being a gentleman and opening yourself up. I agree with cuesmith's #2 as a guide for when to back out of my gentlemanly nature. “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”.

I might get suckered from time to time (never twice), but after the anger goes away I find that I can still sleep good at night. To me that accounts for a lot.

Just try and play it smart.
Click to expand...

I understand what you say, but I don't always buy the questionable upbringing. Most learn right from wrong very early in life. Decision making is often hard learned.
I fully subscribe to the idea that nobody does anything for nothing. There is a payoff in any deed done. often when we do good deeds or behave what we see is correct behavior and we don't get the result we wanted we get upset or offended. Often our expectations are faulty.
Being a gentleman often goes unnoticed in today's
world, but we never really know who noticed.
JMHO!
 
poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...



I think that being a gentleman is certainly very important, and I also believe in Carma. I normally try very hard to treat others how I want to be treated and under normal circumstances this works very well. During my time in the US Army, I was confronted with many situations where this kind of behavior could and would get you killed unless you understood that even while you were dealing with Human Beings you never completely let you guard down. Now in my opinion you can do this and still be a Gentleman, so long as you never forget that what you say to need to do or you should not say it in the first place.

The hardest place to be a gentleman is on the INTERNET, because you are not dealing with others face to face, and directly because of this people will do and say anything because they think there are no consequences. In these cases I would like to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek, however, my pride will not allow me to do this in far to many cases and this is something I do regret. I have lived a life where you said what you mean, and you do what you say and I have had a learning experience since I started using the INTERNET and I have kinda lost my bering's at times.

But as I reflect on these experiences, it comes around full circle and I again find that you can not be a gentleman or even a man if you do not live by the premise that you must mean what you say and do exactly what you say you will do. I think this is the problem in general and I also think this is what our Nation lacks today. Action always speaks louder than any words spoken, and I think that when people understand this there will be far more gentleman and far less nonsense when dealing with others.


JIMO
 
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poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...

Think the world is changing for the worst, in the good old day a man work, or a hand shake on a deal was like a contact.

Many good people still are good to their word, or the hand shake contract. Other are not, but you can not judge all people by a few bad apples!
 
this is a different issue

brandoncook26 said:
I am struggling with this right now in many relationships in my life. I try to be a nice person and help out with things that people need, but it seems that they never appreciate it. I am in a constant struggle to try and continue to "do the right thing". I feel like everyone will take whatever they can from you and many will keep taking until there is nothing left.

Sometimes I become so drained I have to take a break and have some time to recharge. I'm getting very close to just saying screw it and becoming one of the takers. I guess I just need another charge.
Click to expand...



This is a different issue. Over the course of ten years or so I had built up six friends that were big on asking for favors but in the rare event I needed any favor in return they were never available even with weeks of advance notice. I gave this thought for some time. I had no interest in becoming a taker but I decided I wasn't going to be a doormat either. One of the best things I did was without getting angry or upset I simply quit having any association with these leeches. From one Saturday morning on I simply no longer had anything to do with these people. Freed up my life for real friends and freed up time and money I had been wasting.

I also learned to avoid one sided relationships of all kinds. They don't have to be fifty-fifty but if they are extremely lopsided it is time to make some changes in the relationship or get out of it. It doesn't matter if it is a business relationship, a friend, or someone you think is more than a friend.

Hu
 
every good southerner knows that you must ALWAYS remain a gentleman - and when the person you are dealing with fails to remain a gentleman , you are certainly permitted to demand satisfaction. I prefer pistols at dawn , but I'll settle for fisticuffs in the parking lot . . .
 
poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...

I have spent more time than is mentally healthy thinking about this issue.

Here's where I've landed:

It is ALWAYs better to be a gentleman at all times (I am not a fine example of this).

It is ALWAYS prudent to use good judgement to protect yourself and your interests.

Here's the magic - You will ALWAYS have a reaction to your dealings with other people. How you react answers the question you are asking above.

You will get burned if you continue to deal with others. Some people cannot help themselves and constantly abuse other people. If you choose to interact with those people you probably knew what you were doing when you started. We all usually do but choose to believe this time will be different.

You also have to accept that bad things sometimes happen in life to some very good people and then move on. Life is not and never will be fair.

Watch people much older than you. Most of them reached the age they are at because they decided getting upset all the time wasn't worth shortening their lives. They also decided to start taking more time in dealing with people on the front side to avoid potential unpleasantness.

Just my two cents.

Hell, I might go back to being a raging prck tomorrow afternoon! :D
 
"Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to none."
-- Benjamin Franklin
 
poolmaster said:
Normally, I would say yes, but the longer I live the more I get burned, and
that makes me question my own ethics. This refers not only to pool, but
to life in general. The question is, do I continue to be good and keep on
getting burned?
Click to expand...

I really don't understand. Do you accept being burned. It sounds like you do. There is nothing wrong for standing up for what you believe is right, and questioning unacceptable behavior. Being a gentleman does not mean you have to always take it. You have a God given right to question anything that you deem needs to, because you want to be treated with the same respect that you give.
 
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