Do not do business with Chas Clements, or you will loose your money!!!

Once again John, classy move on your part, checking in on him, and trying to help out with the situation at hand. I'm sure Mr.Clements is glad to be able to call you his friend.

Hopefully he can get free of some of his pain, to make it at least more manageable. Best of luck, Mr.Clements.




John and, or his employer Sterling Gaming are always there when there is a CAUSE that needs support, the list is long, so I will not bore you with their recent projects.

These are the kind of people who support our sport, people in our sport, people in our sport with family crises who need help, and others like the victims of a natural disasters on U.S. soil called KATRINA.
 
I will be happy to take up Chas' slack on any cases that Chas may owe to members. If you provide me proof that you paid the money to Chas I will be happy to make a case in a comparable price range gratis including shipping.

Chas has been out of commission for a long time. First his thumb was smashed and then he suffered full body frost bite. He is probably in no position to refund anyone their money. Chas is my friend and so if anyone wants to trade me their spot for a JB Case I will do my best to honor Chas' life in leather and his style as best I can with the case I will make for you. If that is what you want. I know that we are no where near Chas Clements' ability nor do we really design our cases as he does. But he is one of my idols in this business and anything I can do to help him short of handing out cash is something that I will do.

Chas had agreed to do some design work for me and if he is still able to do that then perhaps something may be worked out that he does the design and we build your case. Don't get your hopes up on that but it's a distant possibility. As well I have an idea about another way to build Chas-ish cases that may turn out good or may be a dead end.

The only caveat is that you order will be at the back of the line with me as well until I have satsified all the current backorders.

I think it would also be wise for people who have not been in touch with Chas to keep in mind that perhaps he is now fully incapicitated. I called his number the other day and got no answer and emails have also not been answered. I will have a friend swing by and check on him.

Please email me if you would like to transfer your Clements order to me. jb@jbideas.com

John,

You don't surprise me but this is still a marvelous and most generous proposal on your part.
 
to manwon...

thank you sarge for always looking out for all of us [a military man and mind]. and...

thank you even more for not wanting my offer and willing to lose a considerable amount of money

and we all hope that this additional amount will be helpful for Chas.

may G-d bless you and always keep you just the way you are. you were always an inspiration to me and will always will be...

all the best,
smokey
 
Several years ago Denver had one of the worst blizzards on record. The power was out for several neighborhoods were cut off and people were either being evacuated or asked to leave their houses and go to shelters to avoid freezing.

Chas' house and shop is in an area of Denver that was once safe and respectable but now is borderline. There were reports of looting happening to homes which were empty. So Chas decided to stay and defend his home and workshop and he had no heat. Please don't speculate as to why he stayed with no provisions for heat like a fire or gas stove. For whatever reason he stayed in his house with a gun ready to defend it against looters and he ended up with severe frostbite.

When he was rescued and taken to the hospital the treatment and therapy was immense. To this day he is not recovered and can barely move. He told me that he spends most of his day sitting in one chair in one position trying to be as still as possible as each movement hurts.

John, you're a good man for helping him and taking care of his few customers.

During emergencies, people can do odd things. During the riots in Los Angeles, amid the burning and looting, there were people making stands with their weapons defending their property. When asked by a reporter why he would stay and fight the looters, risking his life, an old Korean man said "because some things are worth risking your life to defend".

I have always taken that to heart when it comes to my home and my family too, so I do understand.

Chris
 
Someone directed me to this thread requesting comment. Not much to comment on here but I'm going to comment on 100% payment up front. Aside from almost costing me a three thousand mile round trip in a third instance 100% payment up front has cost me two good friends over the years.

Both men are top notch craftsmen, both are very small businessmen similar to the small cue and case makers. Both are very good people. Both are unfortunately just human and when they need to feed their families they find it far easier to work on things that they will receive cash for when it is finished than to work on things that take a lot of time and they have to spend money to finish while getting nothing when the item was finished, indeed having to pay packaging and shipping costs. I had to go on another large forum and hammer somebody I had recommended for years after he screwed several people including friends that I had originally recommended him to. I was the first person building his business and was one of the first destroying it. That was painful because I still like the man and consider him a fine person. Never-the-less, my reputation was still getting him orders and I had no option but to speak out.

Exceptions to every rule, so I'll say 99% of the time, but 99% of the time sooner or later things are going to crap giving 100% deposits. Somebody getting cost of materials upfront is reasonable. Somebody getting half of their labor upfront I still can agree with. So let's say 50-66% deposit upfront maximum depending on what total cost is, maybe a lot less. Giving more leads even the best people to neglect your project.

My thoughts, my opinions, based on over 40 years of dealings with people and deposits.

Hu

:groucho::groucho::groucho: (trumps 3 taps)
 
I have to say with all my heart that my faith in AZ Billiards is also completely restored. There are so many great folks here and some of you are truly truly angels on Earth.

I hope someday to be able to give back with as much generoristy and compassion as you all have shown.

I gotta say that one member here who was owed a case not only forgave Chas the entire debt but also even offered to pay more for the materials should Chas ever get back to the workbench. I can tell you with 100% certainty that IF Chas is ever able to get back to work then he will not accept that clearance of the debt and will make the case. So on top of that the same member donated more money to help Chas in any way possible.

And Smokey, well my friend, I don't even know where to begin. You have stepped in so many times to help folks on this board and this time was no exception. You are a saint among men is about all I can think of to say.

You know, most of you don't know Chas Clements. He's just some eccentric leather worker who made some fantastic cases. And sadly he's proof that all you have built can slip away so quickly when you work with your hands and they are taken from you. This is a man who deserves to have a biograpghy of his life written and I may just do that if he is up for it. To me he is an inspiration that a person doesn't have to compromise on quality. That there is a reward to immersing yourself in the art and taking it to new levels.

So, from the bottom of my heart I thank all of you for your compassion and understanding. And I thank you too Craig. You had faith even though you knew that Chas was ill and you shipped the money. Chas didn't steal from you. Nothing hurts him more than to sit in his chair day after day with orders not done and a full workshop just a few feet away. I know that you would have been very proud to own a case from him and I know that you would have gained an even greater appreciation for what truly great leatherworking is once you had his case in your hands. So I know that you are disappointed. Thank you for allwing someone else to buy your spot which in turn allows me to help Chas.

This man has tools that are over 100 years old and he knows how to use them all. A lot of the truly unique aspects of his leather work are directly because of those tools and stamps.

So for me personally it's very hard to see someone who would prefer to die at the workbench doing what he loves confined to a chair. So I owe you all for reaching out and showing compassion for one of the world's greatest artists in a time of need.

This is a sign he did for Instroke when I still owned it. The two faces are representative of me and him with the beards intertwined to symnbolize the sharing of our knowledge.

InstrokeSign-Chas.jpg


This is my gallery of Chas' work http://www.jbcases.com/gallery/index.php?g2_itemId=8372

Peace.
 
Well it rang for a while and Chas did pick up.

I am going to try and relate the situation as best I can. First he says that he actually only owes two or three people that he can remember and it's his daily hope to get strong enough to work and deliver the pieces that have been commissioned.

He is extremely grateful for the kindness and generosity shown by the many people here and he wishes that he were strong enough to use the computer and participate.

The situation is this. Chas has not been outside his house since last year. He has neuropathy as a result of the frostbite. All of his skin sloughed off and he has practically no hair. All the callouses built up over 40 years of hard leather work are gone. At any moment he feels like points on and inside his body are being probed by tacks and pins. As he puts it this is like having an excruciating sunburn where the sun don't shine.

He has had to go through five rounds of different pain medications where he has had to suffer the withdrawls associated with addiction when switching from one to the next. He is currently on two experimental and expensive drugs and anti-depressants.

But the worse torture for him is not to go to the one place he loves more than any other which is to his shop and work. This is a man who built leather goods to last centuries and did things that require strength and who was most happy at the workbench.

He told me the following though which shows his spirit is still kicking, he said that any leather worker who needs advice should feel free to call him, in his words he said, "I give away knowledge and charge for work."

So this applies certainly to every case maker on this board. Call him and take advantage of his offer. But please try to have your topics ready as he tires easily and is not able to have long conversations. At the end of the day all of us can deliver a little bit of Chas in our cases.

Chas is living on a welfare stipend of $675 a month. His son suffered a deep cut on his hand while working on small leather goods and is also recovering from a severe head injury. So things aren't great in the Clements house at the moment but the good news is that the Clements are still in their house and the shop is still intact.

For any of you who have so generously offered to help Chas please send your donations to me at paypal@jbideas.com and I will endeavor to get the money to him. It is unclear at this point if Chas' Paypal account is frozen. PayPal is a little insidious on this point in that when they freeze an account they allow money to continue to come in but do not release it until such time as they remove the account restriction.

Chas asked me to thank everyone who has communicated their sympathy and well wishes. He said that he was moved to tears by some of the comments I read to him.

So that's the situation at the moment. It's really sad that one of the world's very best and brightest leather workers is suffering in this debilitating way.

Chas was never really a part of the billiard industry but he did bring his amazing leather working to bear on a few cue cases. His influence certainly lives on in the work of Brian Bonner, Ritch Remo, Rusty Melton, and of course Marc Turcasso.

At this point it's unlikely that Chas, at 66 will recover sufficiently to do the level of leather work that he is famous for. And I personally do not think that he is capable of consciously doing less that that level on purpose. I only hope that the other case makers I mentioned will take Chas' invitation and get to know him a little and thus be able to pick up some techniques to improve their own leather working.

Chas' phone number is available through me if anyone needs it.

I have a less severe case of neuropathy and it's absolutely terrible. I was very close to suicide prior to discovering Neurontin. The drug made the condition marginally bearable. I can live with the level of pain I now experience. But I keep the meds stashed everywhere I go or might go at any time. I've scared to death to be without my Neurontin. After about 5 hours from my last pill the pain starts and it builds to unbearable levels within another 5 or 6 hours. I can thoroughly empathize with Mr. Clemens.

John, I thoroughly admire your compassion. Compassion is a beautiful thing to witness. You bring tears of joy to my eyes.
 
all i can say is seng is OUTRAGEOUS [thank you sir for your kindness] and john is, well, just john - and the kind of friend i wish i had just one of!!

manwon, being this is azb [the one and only], and we are all family here, pls pm me your pp addy and i will cover your 250 lose.

but also at the same time, john, pls send me mr. clement's pp ady and i will do the same as i can only guess that this may be a critical time of need for your friend.

all the best,
smokey

You are a kind and compassionate man Miles. You're on my A list of azb'rs I want to meet and share a pot or two of coffee with.
 
Well paying for something and receiving nothing leaves a sore spot. I made a 2500 US$ deposit on a custom case with him and never received anything but excuses until the time I gave up bugging him about it. He did tell me that he was trying to deliver on the order for me and other outstanding commitments he had at the time, as soon as he recovers...it is sad to hear that things only got worse from there for him. I have not contacted him in many years and I do not even know if he remembers me now.

It was the only deal I had on a cue or case in many that went South and a most disappointing one at that, since Chas craftsmanship is the most outstanding and it would have been a true honour to own one of his pieces of art. I am still more upset about not having the case than about loosing the money!

John, please pass on my best wishes to him. I do not want to know what choices someone must make being in the extreme situation that he is in. Priorities change quickly in desperate times.

The case I ordered was supposed to have a "Pegasus" motive and at the time I ordered I was still in Hong Kong. Maybe he remembers...if there is still a chance to get my case it would be wonderful. I have never comissioned another work like this from another case maker, because it was either a Clements or nothing :wink: But I would be very happy to get in line with John's offer...

@John: I will email you about this and maybe we can work out some donation on my part for Chas.

Joerg
 
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and then there's this point of view...

Call me a wet blanket, a stick in the spokes, a fly in the ointment, and a monkey wrench in the works...but:

Does the fact that Chas had a big problem with frostbite excuse his keeping people's money intended for cases, that, due to his health, are not likely to be produced? Joerg and Craig, representing just two wronged customers that we know of, lost a total of $3750.00. Not chump change. And I'm betting they aren't the only two victims. Yes, I did say victims. That's what I would consider people who sent thousands of dollars to someone, then, not only did they never receive their cases, but according to both, their attempt at keeping in contact with Chas went ignored. It is nice, however, that Mr. Clements is now making himself available to provide telephone consults to casemakers who have technical questions.

JB mentioned that the frostbite happened several years ago but it appears Chas accepted payments for cases long after that. Joerg points out in his post that people's "priorities change quickly in desperate times". I'm trying to imagine a circumstance where I would be so desperate as to collect people's money and not come through either with the goods or a refund. I can't.

Not meaning to rain on the parade here. Am I the only one who feels this way?

And for the record, I am t-r-u-l-y impressed with my fellow azb'ers for their incredible generosity as evidenced in this thread. Seriously proud of you guys! :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc
 
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Well paying for something and receiving nothing leaves a sore spot. I made a 2500 US$ deposit on a custom case with him and never received anything but excuses until the time I gave up bugging him about it. He did tell me that he was trying to deliver on the order for me and other outstanding commitments he had at the time, as soon as he recovers...it is sad to hear that things only got worse from there for him. I have not contacted him in many years and I do not even know if he remembers me now.

It was the only deal I had on a cue or case in many that went South and a most disappointing one at that, since Chas craftsmanship is the most outstanding and it would have been a true honour to own one of his pieces of art. I am still more upset about not having the case than about loosing the money!

John, please pass on my best wishes to him. I do not want to know what choices someone must make being in the extreme situation that he is in. Priorities change quickly in desperate times.

The case I ordered was supposed to have a "Pegasus" motive and at the time I ordered I was still in Hong Kong. Maybe he remembers...if there is still a chance to get my case it would be wonderful. I have never comissioned another work like this from another case maker, because it was either a Clements or nothing :wink: But I would be very happy to get in line with John's offer...

@John: I will email you about this and maybe we can work out some donation on my part for Chas.

Joerg

Of course I will be happy to make the case for you. I got your email and we will certainly be working it out. A $3500 case from me might not even be possible so we may need to break it into several cases. In any event I will certainly do my best to make you a substitute that you can be proud of.
 
Call me a wet blanket, a stick in the spokes, a fly in the ointment, and a monkey wrench in the works...but:

Does the fact that Chas had a big problem with frostbite excuse his keeping people's money intended for cases, that, due to his health, are not likely to be produced? Joerg and Craig, representing just two wronged customers that we know of, lost a total of $3750.00. Not chump change. And I'm betting they aren't the only two victims. Yes, I did say victims. That's what I would consider people who sent thousands of dollars to someone, then, not only did they never receive their cases, but according to both, their attempt at keeping in contact with Chas went ignored. It is nice, however, that Mr. Clements is now making himself available to provide telephone consults to casemakers who have technical questions.

JB mentioned that the frostbite happened several years ago but it appears Chas accepted payments for cases long after that. Joerg points out in his post that people's "priorities change quickly in desperate times". I'm trying to imagine a circumstance where I would be so desperate as to collect people's money and not come through either with the goods or a refund. I can't.

Not meaning to rain on the parade here. Am I the only one who feels this way?

And for the record, I am t-r-u-l-y impressed with my fellow azb'ers for their incredible generosity as evidenced in this thread. Seriously proud of you guys! :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc

Chas picks up the phone when he is able to. I find it funny that at least ONE person who has a commission in with Chas reported to me that he had no problem communicating with Chas and that Chas had made an offer of restitution from his personal collection of highly valuable objects. I have seen those emails.

As I said we have only one side of the story here since Chas is unable to step in and provide the narrative from his side.

Chas has ALWAYS made himself available to ANY case makers or leather workers who wished to pick his brain. He just reminded of it when we had our conversation yesterday. I spent hours in his shop in Denver and he was open and frank with me about ways to improve the Instroke case, took time to show me how he does things and why, and was able to to tell me the history of particular techniques.

Now Brian I don't have any idea what it is you do for a living. But I bet whatever it is is nowhere near the pinnacle of that endeavor worldwide, I would bet that you have not invested a lifetime into a craft where you assembled a workshop full of obscure tools, learned to use them with expertise and then watched it all go away through two major injuries one after the other.

You are meaning to rain on the parade and it's ok. Your "analysis" of events 50 posts into a thread is expected by now. Your opinion is no less valid than anyone else's. And since we all know that morality is only black and white you have every right to pick a side and tell us what you think you might do if you could possibly imagine yourself in such a situation, which you said you can't. So basically if you want to be judgmental then carry on.

For me, I am incredibly sad to see the situation as it is. I am willing to do all that I can to make it good for Chas' customers, not victims and I really hope that seeing the majority of the folks who posted in this thread wanting to see Chas get back to work does at least give him some needed encouragement. Sometimes that is more important in the healing process.

And Chas did not have a big problem with frostbite. He had a life shattering problem with frostbite that has developed into a debilitating chronic condition which often drives sufferers to suicide.

So I would say that this is a case of perhaps trying to walk a mile in a man's shoes before you judge him, but that's just my opinion.
 
That would be fine with me as well. I seriously doubt that Chas is even in any kind of position to discuss taking orders much less any deposits at this point.

I doubt highly that any legal proceedings will amount to anything in this situation but I understand that a person who is out the money should explore whatever avenues that are available to them.

Roy Malott is in a similar situation where a customer owes him $3500 for a cue and case which was sent recently and never paid for. Unfortunately that customer reported that he fell on hard times, one would think that at least he could send the cue and case back to Roy if nothing else.

If anyone wants to take up Craig's offer then I will be happy to tack another $250 on top of it and build a $1500 case.

John, I'm impressed. This is really going out of your way for another human being. I am going to mull this over..... I think it would be an impressive case you would build for 1500. Maybe we should start a raffle to get Manwon his 1000 and the winner gets your case..........Then we could say we all had a hand in helping out fellow AZB'rs.........
 
Of course I will be happy to make the case for you. I got your email and we will certainly be working it out. A $3500 case from me might not even be possible so we may need to break it into several cases. In any event I will certainly do my best to make you a substitute that you can be proud of.

John, you are a stand-up guy... and I mean that sincerely. I like Chas and have always tried to be understanding of his situation.

The thing I am having trouble understanding is why Chas took the order from Craig when he did. I believe I have been waiting longer than anyone. I ordered and paid in full for a $2,200.00 case in 2002, and haven't gotten anything yet. If that case couldn't be delivered, why did he take the last order and payment when he did?

I have long ago forgiven Chas and forgotten about that deal. I have better
things to do than sweat things like that.

I truly wish Chas the best.

I would also like to thank you for the BIG discount you gave me on the case I brought from you. I know you were only trying to help me because of my Chas experience.
 
I am going to say one more thing Brian since you use the word victim deliberately. Since you are essentially labeling Chas a thief are you going to start outing all the other "thieves" in this industry? You say that you "tell it like it is" and stand up for the moral side of things so I shall be eagerly awaiting a series of threads by you where you highlight the thievery and dishonesty that goes on every day by some members of this forum as well as by otehr industry people at large.

Sure, you're right that Chas probably should have turned down at least Craig's commission, and probably should have found ways to gather together the money and refund the others. But again, neither you or I are the people standing in Chas' position.

In the past I have found it quite easy to get up on a moral pedestal and much harder to get down.

Being judgemental without the facts and one side is the easiest thing in the world to be. I can walk down the street and pass judgement on a thousand things a day that I see are "wrong" with the world. But if I take the time to probe a little deeper then I often find out that circumstances prevent things from being "right" as I would think that they should be.

I have spent the last 20 years wrapped up in being right. Rigth now I am just glad to be alive and glad to be healthy, glad to have a shot at raising a family and glad to have the opportunity that what I do for a living can somehow be more beneficial to another human being's soul than simply providing them with some eye candy.

I am sad that you chose to be contrarian here. I don't know what purpose it serves for you to get negative in a thread where we were solving Craig's problem and providing some relief for a man who is suffering terribly. To be sure there have been plenty of people who have passed through AZB who have taken money and never deliverered and show little to no remorse about it either. This is not the case here.

Now as I said you are free to voice your opinion. We all are. However, as the saying goes, sometimes it's not what you say, but instead what you choose not to that counts.
 
John, you are a stand-up guy... and I mean that sincerely. I like Chas and have always tried to be understanding of his situation.

The thing I am having trouble understanding is why Chas took the order from Craig when he did. I believe I have been waiting longer than anyone. I ordered and paid in full for a $2,200.00 case in 2002, and haven't gotten anything yet. If that case couldn't be delivered, why did he take the last order and payment when he did?

I have long ago forgiven Chas and forgotten about that deal. I have better
things to do than sweat things like that.

I truly wish Chas the best.

I would also like to thank you for the BIG discount you gave me on the case I brought from you. I know you were only trying to help me because of my Chas experience.

Well Charlie, the optimist in me says that Chas really felt that he would be able to get back to work and get Craig's case going.

The pragmatist in me would say that it was probably more delusional hope that was drug induced.

As an example my father just had knee surgery and something didn't go right and it got infected pretty badly. They put him on some heavy duty drugs that he didn't want to take. He got addicted to them as he knew he would and the past four weeks he has been suffering the withdrawls.

I had a case sent to him that I bought, a McKernan, when it arrived he told the mailman, "forward it to my son in China". Gave no address or anything just said "send it to China". This is a guy who previously dealt with my packages and his own through his Ebay business daily.

I don't condone taking a commission when you know that you will never be ABLE to deliver. And I certainly don't condone taking money for something you have no intention of ever delivering. But I can't really fault a guy for trying to pump himself up by taking a commission for something that he really feels he could deliver.

In any event, my thinking right now is simply to do whatever is in my power to erase Chas' debts because it's what I want to do. I don't really care what Chas' motivation was or is regarding the case commissions nor really what the communications were between him and his customers. As far as I am concerned I owe Chas Clements for the help and advice he has given me and if I can use my current resources to pay down that debt then I will.

You're welcome and thank you for being one of my first JB Case customers. I will still honor Chas' debt with you and make you a case. As I told Joerg though, it's going to be tough for me to make a $2000+ case but I am willing to take on the order and make one or as many cases as it takes.

I won't keep you waiting as long as Chas has but I do want to remind everyone that I have to satisfy current orders first.

Best,

John
 
John, I'm impressed. This is really going out of your way for another human being. I am going to mull this over..... I think it would be an impressive case you would build for 1500. Maybe we should start a raffle to get Manwon his 1000 and the winner gets your case..........Then we could say we all had a hand in helping out fellow AZB'rs.........

Whatever way works. I think Dedy from Indonesia has indicated to Craig that he will buy Craig's spot for $1000 so I guess if that comes through then Craig is situated.

But as you can see there are a few others who might be more interested in getting cash than a case from me so whatever works is fine with me.
 
Well Charlie, the optimist in me says that Chas really felt that he would be able to get back to work and get Craig's case going.

The pragmatist in me would say that it was probably more delusional hope that was drug induced.

As an example my father just had knee surgery and something didn't go right and it got infected pretty badly. They put him on some heavy duty drugs that he didn't want to take. He got addicted to them as he knew he would and the past four weeks he has been suffering the withdrawls.

I had a case sent to him that I bought, a McKernan, when it arrived he told the mailman, "forward it to my son in China". Gave no address or anything just said "send it to China". This is a guy who previously dealt with my packages and his own through his Ebay business daily.

I don't condone taking a commission when you know that you will never be ABLE to deliver. And I certainly don't condone taking money for something you have no intention of ever delivering. But I can't really fault a guy for trying to pump himself up by taking a commission for something that he really feels he could deliver.

In any event, my thinking right now is simply to do whatever is in my power to erase Chas' debts because it's what I want to do. I don't really care what Chas' motivation was or is regarding the case commissions nor really what the communications were between him and his customers. As far as I am concerned I owe Chas Clements for the help and advice he has given me and if I can use my current resources to pay down that debt then I will.

You're welcome and thank you for being one of my first JB Case customers. I will still honor Chas' debt with you and make you a case. As I told Joerg though, it's going to be tough for me to make a $2000+ case but I am willing to take on the order and make one or as many cases as it takes.

I won't keep you waiting as long as Chas has but I do want to remind everyone that I have to satisfy current orders first.

Best,

John
Thanks for the offer... but I must respectively decline. I no longer play pool because of a knee injury and have no interest in pool collectables. I recently sold all my cues and cases and donated the proceeds to a good cause. Thanks again.
 
Call me a wet blanket, a stick in the spokes, a fly in the ointment, and a monkey wrench in the works...but:

Does the fact that Chas had a big problem with frostbite excuse his keeping people's money intended for cases, that, due to his health, are not likely to be produced? Joerg and Craig, representing just two wronged customers that we know of, lost a total of $3750.00. Not chump change. And I'm betting they aren't the only two victims. Yes, I did say victims. That's what I would consider people who sent thousands of dollars to someone, then, not only did they never receive their cases, but according to both, their attempt at keeping in contact with Chas went ignored. It is nice, however, that Mr. Clements is now making himself available to provide telephone consults to casemakers who have technical questions.

JB mentioned that the frostbite happened several years ago but it appears Chas accepted payments for cases long after that. Joerg points out in his post that people's "priorities change quickly in desperate times". I'm trying to imagine a circumstance where I would be so desperate as to collect people's money and not come through either with the goods or a refund. I can't.

Not meaning to rain on the parade here. Am I the only one who feels this way?

And for the record, I am t-r-u-l-y impressed with my fellow azb'ers for their incredible generosity as evidenced in this thread. Seriously proud of you guys! :thumbup:

Best,
Brian kc

Well, just to explain, he is kind of the Balabushka of leather casemaking. He's in the Bililards Encyclopedia and any collector would kill to get one of his cases. He is loved and admired for his craftsmanship.

I can see where a man like this would be optimistic about getting better and thinking he would one day be what he was once again.

Brian, there is a also certain amount of 'Caveat Emptor' at work here. Any time you, as a buyer, pay large amounts in full for a work to be completed at a future time with a small business, you are risking losing your money. The buyer has to evaluate if that risk is excessive and the tools are here to evaluate someone's background or credit worthiness. I wouldnt do it for small amounts, but when it gets into the thousands, I sure would. There are alternative, progress payments for example.

This is a sad situation for all involved. The incredible story of his health, his current situation, and his customers never seeing a Chas Case they paid for leaves me with a sick feeling.


Chris
 
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