Joerg goes back a long way. I remember Joerg from the RSB days of long ago. He is a good guy and a customer worth having. As I remember he swing a stick pretty good too. :smile:
Do not do business with Chas Clements, or you will loose your money!!!
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
Joerg goes back a long way. I remember Joerg from the RSB days of long ago. He is a good guy and a customer worth having. As I remember he swing a stick pretty good too. :smile:
JB;
Please don't be waiting too eagerly for me to post "a series of threads" on dishonesty both in the industry and by members of azb, though, I am contemplating outing a member here who is not doing the right thing regarding a recent cue sale with me. Small potatoes compared with what happened, dollar-wise, in this thread.
You said "I am sad you chose to be contrarian here." Please be advised that my rep page is suggesting I may not be contrarian, at all.
As for my "getting negative", I am only offering up my opinion and I feel it's a valid one. You only perceive me as being negative because you have a different opinion.
FWIW, I could write a few very long chapters on neuropathy, mine the result of an insidious infection of the central nervous system. I came real close to checking out three times, couldn't speak (just stared and drooled) for three months, then was left with years of horrific pain that meds couldn't touch. I endured many hospitalizations, some quite lengthy, and had to close my very successful business offices in favor of going home to work on an extremely limited basis requiring lots of help. My son withdrew from UCONN for one year to move back home to help me. I was an effing mess. I think that while we all have many various curveballs thrown at us in life, some more than others, I do believe I have a sense of what it might be like to walk in Mr. Clements shoes. With respect to dealing with a monumental health crisis, anyway.
I still can't imagine taking money and not making good on it, one way or another.
How many of my buddies broke my balls just after my 'unable to speak, only stare at the wall and drool' period, asking for their $20 back that they loaned me during that time. Can you believe my pals trying to get over on me like that? :grin-square: It's a gift to have a good sense of humor. Sometimes, it's all you have to get by.
Best,
Brian kc
P.S. Divergent points of view always welcome.
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Brian,
I am not condoning anything by any stretch of the imagination, but until you have traveled down that road, you, me nor anyone else can say what you would or would not do.
Most people would do very desperate things if the tides of fortune suddenly left them abandoned and no one can exclude themselves from that possibility.
Job was the only guy I ever heard of who reportedly lost everything and still kept his integrity. I've got the first two letters down pat, but that is about it.
I think we should all pray to God and/or do whatever we can to make sure that similar misfortune doesn't befall us, so that we won't be in a position that forces us to fade the choices Chas has had to make.
In essence I practically lost all of my material possessions and I can tell you it is not a nice feeling. After Katrina, State Farm had me walking inside of houses that were completely filled with black mold, measuring and estimating the size and value of a building that was completely destroyed. Looking back, I don't know how or what the hell I was doing in there but sometimes in life, you find yourself in desperate situations doing stupid things, so I try not to judge others quite so emphatically.
JB;
Please don't be waiting too eagerly for me to post "a series of threads" on dishonesty both in the industry and by members of azb, though, I am contemplating outing a member here who is not doing the right thing regarding a recent cue sale with me. Small potatoes compared with what happened, dollar-wise, in this thread.
You said "I am sad you chose to be contrarian here." Please be advised that my rep page is suggesting I may not be contrarian, at all.
As for my "getting negative", I am only offering up my opinion and I feel it's a valid one. You only perceive me as being negative because you have a different opinion.
FWIW, I could write a few very long chapters on neuropathy, mine the result of an insidious infection of the central nervous system. I came real close to checking out three times, couldn't speak (just stared and drooled) for three months, then was left with years of horrific pain that meds couldn't touch. I endured many hospitalizations, some quite lengthy, and had to close my very successful business offices in favor of going home to work on an extremely limited basis requiring lots of help. My son withdrew from UCONN for one year to move back home to help me. I was an effing mess. I think that while we all have many various curveballs thrown at us in life, some more than others, I do believe I have a sense of what it might be like to walk in Mr. Clements shoes. With respect to dealing with a monumental health crisis, anyway.
I still can't imagine taking money and not making good on it, one way or another.
How many of my buddies broke my balls just after my 'unable to speak, only stare at the wall and drool' period, asking for their $20 back that they loaned me during that time. Can you believe my pals trying to get over on me like that? :grin-square: It's a gift to have a good sense of humor. Sometimes, it's all you have to get by.
Best,
Brian kc
P.S. Divergent points of view always welcome.
Please accept my sincere apologies as you have indeed walked in Chas' shoes.
I do feel that kicking a man while he is down is probably not a good thing. I am certain that more than a few people applaud you for being the one doing the kicking instead of them.
And for what it's worth, your story has given me hope that Chas can recover. Because at the SBE you appeared to be lively and were certainly competitive.
Again, my apologies.
Chas would not take my money when i called hin a while back.He was not sure he could deliver,frost bite had had just about killed him and he was rendered incapacitated
Craig,I would recomend you to take the offer from JB,your chances of collecting any other way is remote,I have known you to be an upright man and suggest that you act now on a principle of grace or mercy in this case by removing your post and let this man rest in peace,I will make you a cash offer for your interest with JB,your collection efforts will only cost you money....214 477 7323
I highly praise JB for his kind and generous offer,it is not his first.He donated 3 cases to the Mike Cochran fund for his wife
John is a push over in real life,but a bear in a debate,I personally like the guy and want to see him back on AZ for ever
Craig,I would recomend you to take the offer from JB,your chances of collecting any other way is remote,I have known you to be an upright man and suggest that you act now on a principle of grace or mercy in this case by removing your post and let this man rest in peace,I will make you a cash offer for your interest with JB,your collection efforts will only cost you money....214 477 7323
I highly praise JB for his kind and generous offer,it is not his first.He donated 3 cases to the Mike Cochran fund for his wife
John is a push over in real life,but a bear in a debate,I personally like the guy and want to see him back on AZ for ever
I dunno about you, Chris, but I've felt for a long time that sengkun108/ "Dedy" is a shill account for a longtime poster on AZB. I have my doubts that "Dedy" is even Asian, regardless of where his IP# may appear to be from.
Eric
John;
I accept your apology though I don't feel anything you said rose to the level of your having to offer me one.
It's unfortunate that my sharing my opinion translates to your thinking I'm kicking a man when he's down. Someone here on this thread said he, too, was wronged by Chas back in 2002. Regardless of whether this is the premier leather worker of all time, right is right, wrong is wrong, and I do not feel illness should provide a free pass. Especially if this has become a recurring theme.
The reason I got back into pool was largely the result of my illness. I became sick in 1995 and it continues to a much lesser degree today. The first 6 or 7 years were a real *****. I have been left with an immune system run amok. They call it autoimmunity, triggered by the infection. Aside from all of the hospitalizations, PICC lines delivering meds directly into my heart, Avastin injections into the eyeballs (ever heard the saying it's better than a sharp stick in the eye? this is not better, it's exactly like a sharp stick in the eye
), vasculitis, capillaritis, EMG nerve conduction studies where they put needles into various parts of your body then turn on the electricity trying to see where (and why?) there are interruptions, two bouts of Stevens Johnson syndrome (google that one if you have the stomach) etc., etc..., I try to keep a positive outlook. Time has caused this to become much more managable and, believe me, I am grateful beyond words that I can for the last five or six years, go to places like SBE, meet friends, make new ones, and play a little pool. Even be competitive at times. 
Why I said my illness was the reason I got back into pool was because my vision was going very wavy due to leaking blood vessels behind the eye and so I thought I had better get busy, not knowing how much time I'd be able to see well. This, too, is being managed, I'll be getting another eyeball treatment in a week or two. Can I please have the 7 and out? :grin:
This is starting to feel like 'too much info sharing' and a bit of a hijack of the thread.
I'll end my involvement here with the following suggestion:
Keep a positive outlook, even when you're dealt a bad hand, and always try to do the right thing. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
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mlalum
Banned
John;
I accept your apology though I don't feel anything you said rose to the level of your having to offer me one.
It's unfortunate that my sharing my opinion translates to your thinking I'm kicking a man when he's down. Someone here on this thread said he, too, was wronged by Chas back in 2002. Regardless of whether this is the premier leather worker of all time, right is right, wrong is wrong, and I do not feel illness provides a free pass. Especially if this is becoming a recurring theme.
The reason I got back into pool was largely the result of my illness. I became sick in 1995 and it continues to a much lesser degree today. The first 6 or 7 years were a real *****. I have been left with an immune system run amok. They call it autoimmunity, triggered by the infection. Aside from all of the hospitalizations, PICC lines delivering meds directly into my heart, Avastin injections into the eyeballs (ever heard that saying it's better than a sharp stick in the eye? this is not better, it's exactly like a sharp stick in the eye
Why I said my illness was the reason I got back into pool was because my vision was going very wavy due to leaking blood vessels behind the eye and so I thought I had better get busy, not knowing how much time I'd be able to see well. This, too, is being managed, I'll be getting another eyeball treatment in a week or two. Can I please have the 7 and out? :grin:
This is starting to feel like 'too much info' and a bit of a hijack of the thread.
I'll end my involvement here with the following suggestion:
Keep a positive outlook, even when you draw a bad hand, and always try to do the right thing. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
Kickin, glad to see you've come back from an awful medical condition.
I don't believe you've KICKED anyone when they're down. You've been very polite and analytical in your analysis of the situation. People have lost thousands of dollars in this casemaker debacle. And it's been going on for years.
What you said needed to be said. Give this man your sympathy and help but not a free pass for what he's done.
I wish the casemaker good fortune. And I hope all the goodwill discussed on this thread actually happens.
Well said. Ive been in buisness for years and there were times whenI took money with good intentions then couldnt deliver and part or all the money was gone.Very embaressing and difficult sittuation but you have to do what you have to do to make it right.JB is very generous in his offer to help and no offense JB but if he wanted ur case he would have ordered one.But with everything goining wrong I think Its great that you made the offer.I hope everything works out well for everyone.
Brad
Well, it's not the first time you have been wrong and certainly won't be the last.
I think it's very clear to everyone that Craig does not want a JB Case. That said there are more ways to handle it which gets everyone involved satisfied.
Otherwise there is no way that Craig would ever get any money back whatsoever.
So it becomes a net win for everyone and for the time being it keeps the wolves from the door of a man I look up to.
I just got off the phone with Chas and he was in tears at the generosity shown by this group. He is genuinely distraught by the fact that he owes work to a few customers and is clinging to his shop and tools in the hope that he can work again. I hope all of you can understand that for him losing the shop, selling it off piece by piece would truly be the end of hope for him.
I don't expect anyone to really understand this. I have been there and I can see how losing the shop would leave him completely devastated without even the fantasy that he can work again.
I discussed with Chas the other day whether he would consider taking on an apprentice. He said he would but now any apprentice would have to be very mindful of his condition and the fact that he is only good very very short periods of conversation and pretty much useless for hands-on instruction. He told me that many people over the years said they wanted to apprentice with him and none followed through. He lamented that what he does, the way he does it is a dying art.
But anyway that's all beside the point. In all likelihood there will never again be another Chas Clements cue case built. But I am certain that there will be many JB Cases built from this point on which bear out Chas' legacy. I fully intend to spend as much time as Chas can give me to be as much of a long-distance student that I can.
This thread has reminded me that I can do something about it and find a way to make it work.
Well anyway, I am out now. I think that all the relevant points have been made and so far I count at least two folks who are eager to pay Craig and take the offer. If neither of these work out then I am sure something else can be worked out.
If anyone wants to contact me you know where to find me.
I was being defensive when there is no need and presumptive about your life. I had no idea and no right to assume. For that I needed to apologize.
That's right. There is no ignore list anymore. Everyone's comments have some value, comedic or otherwise.
Hi all
I already sent My 1000$ to Craig and right after he receive my money, he will contact John.
I dunno what i felt after reading all the post here. Glad, to see many other member have a lot of compassion (especially John Barton,) Sad, because someone have a health problem (I wonder, someday maybe it will be me) and many member lost his money. Lucky, because i spent a 1000$ to receive a 1500$, and asshamed, because it's seem to me that i jumping to other Bad luck ( I hope somebody know what i mean,LOL).
JB :
But in this thread, i want to make a promise to John barton. Mr Barton, i will promote your case in my community, in my country. I will market your case her, at least someday you will got your case material cost becasue this issue. (I hope you know what i mean). Damn, i wonder if i learn more in school, maybe my english is not this bad
Tate :
Mr Chris, yes, 1000$ is a big amount of money here. I can afford it, because i lucky to have a good bussiness here. I rent a generator here in INdonesia
I believe Mr Barton will Post the Pics of this case, right after this case finish. and I will Proud to this case offcourse.
Eric :
LOL, you are a funny man ....and ..have a lot of "Negative mind"..But at least you can make me laugh...
Best:smile:
I already sent My 1000$ to Craig and right after he receive my money, he will contact John.
I dunno what i felt after reading all the post here. Glad, to see many other member have a lot of compassion (especially John Barton,) Sad, because someone have a health problem (I wonder, someday maybe it will be me) and many member lost his money. Lucky, because i spent a 1000$ to receive a 1500$, and asshamed, because it's seem to me that i jumping to other Bad luck ( I hope somebody know what i mean,LOL).
JB :
But in this thread, i want to make a promise to John barton. Mr Barton, i will promote your case in my community, in my country. I will market your case her, at least someday you will got your case material cost becasue this issue. (I hope you know what i mean). Damn, i wonder if i learn more in school, maybe my english is not this bad
Tate :
Mr Chris, yes, 1000$ is a big amount of money here. I can afford it, because i lucky to have a good bussiness here. I rent a generator here in INdonesia
I believe Mr Barton will Post the Pics of this case, right after this case finish. and I will Proud to this case offcourse.
Eric :
LOL, you are a funny man ....and ..have a lot of "Negative mind"..But at least you can make me laugh...
Best:smile:
You're welcome, "Dedy". Anyway, as is the custom in the USA...let me assign you an "American" name (many people do this to assimilate).
From now on, instead of Dedy, I will call you....John :smile:
Eric >John has a nice ring to it
Well, for $1000, you are going to get a one of a kind knock out case.
Most likely valued at more than that in the long run.
So everyone is happy, thats a good thing.
Most likely valued at more than that in the long run.
So everyone is happy, thats a good thing.
Hi all
I already sent My 1000$ to Craig and right after he receive my money, he will contact John.
I dunno what i felt after reading all the post here. Glad, to see many other member have a lot of compassion (especially John Barton,) Sad, because someone have a health problem (I wonder, someday maybe it will be me) and many member lost his money. Lucky, because i spent a 1000$ to receive a 1500$, and asshamed, because it's seem to me that i jumping to other Bad luck ( I hope somebody know what i mean,LOL).
JB :
But in this thread, i want to make a promise to John barton. Mr Barton, i will promote your case in my community, in my country. I will market your case her, at least someday you will got your case material cost becasue this issue. (I hope you know what i mean). Damn, i wonder if i learn more in school, maybe my english is not this bad
Tate :
Mr Chris, yes, 1000$ is a big amount of money here. I can afford it, because i lucky to have a good bussiness here. I rent a generator here in INdonesia
I believe Mr Barton will Post the Pics of this case, right after this case finish. and I will Proud to this case offcourse.
Eric :
LOL, you are a funny man ....and ..have a lot of "Negative mind"..But at least you can make me laugh...
Best:smile:
Dedy, I did receive the $1000 today and I am in your debt, if I can every help you with anything in the future please contact me. Sir you are certainly a stand up guy, who understands how important one's word to another is, it is very very refreshing to encounter people like you.
Very Respectfully
Craig W. Rittel
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Well in the end the AZB Community came threw, and hopefully everyone is happy. So now Craig is out nothing, Two AZB Member refund him his money as I understand, so he got all his fund back. Another party will get a very nice cue Case from John Barton.:wink:
Now if I could just get this relative who I loaned money too over four years ago, to start sending me $5.00 a month for the next 555 months, to show some good faith & pay me back, but than I realized about two years ago he had no intention of honoring his promise to repay me.
