Eliminating luck, US Open 9-Ball

SpinDoctor said:
... The bigger problem is that the game of 9 ball has an inherent flaw, which is the rack being vulnerable but so long as I'm forced to play it in major events, I'd much rather take the whole rack argument out of the equation with a perfect one every game.
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Recap of the problem: if the balls in a nine ball rack are tight, the wing ball goes in (more than 90%). If the balls are loose, the rack is unfair.

I think the Eurotour had/has a partial solution in using a tight rack and requiring "three balls above the line." Some think a much better solution is 10 ball. That would be a less radical change than "breaker shoots," but I'm not sure it's better.
 
The open use tho have ref's, and they did the racking too. I think a neutral person (ref) to rack and not being able to check the rack would work just fine.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Recap of the problem: if the balls in a nine ball rack are tight, the wing ball goes in (more than 90%). If the balls are loose, the rack is unfair.

I think the Eurotour had/has a partial solution in using a tight rack and requiring "three balls above the line." Some think a much better solution is 10 ball. That would be a less radical change than "breaker shoots," but I'm not sure it's better.
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I fully agree that the wing ball (and the one in most cases) goes more often but at least those leave the player still needing to shoot his way out of the rack.

What's more important to me is that the rack is consistent and fair to both players without the need for someone to "work the rack" in their favor every break. If we must play 9 ball in these events (which I think is the fundamental problem) then at least make it a level playing field for both parties involved.

The game, or more importantly the rack, in 9 ball is flawed and vulnerable which is something that just can't be disputed. You're never going to eliminate that but by making the rack perfect every time you end the drama and B.S associated with old school racking. Sure the hustlers and rack mechanics are going to be upset because it's one more trick in their arsenal that you have negated but really, is that such a bad thing?
 
wing ball

What year was it discovered that the wing ball was almost guaranteed ?

Why didn't the game get scrapped, changed or modified at that time ?

Thankfully there is only one ball in an 8-ball rack that is a 25 % or we would be crying about what a problem that is.

One re-rack per game ? Sounds pretty good unless the second one is worse. A neutral racker would be ideal, but I guess you would need six (maybe less) people dedicated to that for the early rounds.

I would rack for them if the appropriate compensation was established before the match.:wink:
 
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The best is to have a referee. I don't know if it helps, we tried in Greece the rack your own/9ball made to top corner pockets spotted and it worked fine.
Petros
 
Lonestar_jim said:
What year was it discovered that the wing ball was almost guaranteed ?

Why didn't the game get scrapped, changed or modified at that time ? ...
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It was noted at least ten years ago. Here is a related article.

I think I reported at the time on the percentages I observed on the TV table at the World Championships (9 ball) in Cardiff: wing ball 90%, totally dry break 5%. That was taken over at least 10 matches with lots of different players.

As to why there was no rule change, actually there was on the Eurotour where they had tight racks.
 
It's 9ball .

9 on the snap counts .

early out (kiss shot ) counts.

loser should rack.

winner should break .

change any of those things , then call it what you want , but it won't be 9ball anymore

that's why they invented 7ball . and 10ball. and whatever the h_ll kind of cr_ap Schofield wants to play . But it won't be 9ball , so don't try to call it that . . . .
 
If the 9-ball goes in the bottom corners w/o getting kissed=the rack was loose/tricked, take your pick.

Almost every big pool tournament outside the US uses Magic Rack, tapping, or something else that gives a tight rack all the time and you can't play with.

The ONLY reason that the Magic Rack is not used much here in the US is that it's so cheap that the company can't afford to pay big dollars to the pomoters so they will use it. This would solve the problem but as usual money gets in the way in pool on ALL levels. Johnnyt
 
Let's try from yet another angle. Let's say the Sardo Rack and the Magic Rack are the standard because they give us perfect frozen racks every time, and as a result, the wing ball goes in 90% of the time. We are demanding a perfect rack and if we don't make the wing ball, we feel cheated. We can easily fix everything. Let's just pretend we are all using them! That's right! After all, we are entitled to a perfect rack and we are entitled to a guaranteed ball every break. Think through it and take the next step. We don't need these racks at all. Really! Let's all just pretend we make a ball on the break because, after all, we are supposed to if the balls are racked properly. With "breaker shoots after a legal break", everyone is made whole every time. It's fixed. We don't need the gadgets. The gadgets could fail but the rule would not.
 
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Problems with the nine ball rack?

I was wondering how long it would take them to play rack your own at the US Open 9 ball event, it was either that or watch the players argue about the rack. Racking my own makes me feel like a cheater, I guess the soft break won't become a problem when you understand how to make the trick shot wing ball, I would venture to guess that some players who have never played rack your own are being educated on how to make the wing ball in prep for the Open. I would suggest that they tap the balls in for every table lightly and switch the game to Ten Ball, any time the balls are not in place a buzzer goes off. I am sure that they have the technology to make this happen, and then we would have the ultimate playing conditions.

Some players are more difficult to deal with than others, making a player re-rack introduces the idea of mistrust between players, if there is a viewing audience we should try to create a positive flow and act like professionals. I played at a tournament in Japan once where the player had to break the rack that was given - no exceptions. I have many memories of watching the greatest nine ball players in the world compete at a high level. It's not my intention to belittle those players or their accomplishments, they will allways be Champions - it's just time now to call it the US Open 10 Ball Championships. Besides the only person who is supposed to rack the balls is the referree, white gloves are standard issue.
 
Danny Harriman said:
I was wondering how long it would take them to play rack your own at the US Open 9 ball event, it was either that or watch the players argue about the rack. Racking my own makes me feel like a cheater, I guess the soft break won't become a problem when you understand how to make the trick shot wing ball, I would venture to guess that some players who have never played rack your own are being educated on how to make the wing ball in prep for the Open. I would suggest that they tap the balls in for every table lightly and switch the game to Ten Ball, any time the balls are not in place a buzzer goes off. I am sure that they have the technology to make this happen, and then we would have the ultimate playing conditions.

Some players are more difficult to deal with than others, making a player re-rack introduces the idea of mistrust between players, if there is a viewing audience we should try to create a positive flow and act like professionals. I played at a tournament in Japan once where the player had to break the rack that was given - no exceptions. I have many memories of watching the greatest nine ball players in the world compete at a high level. It's not my intention to belittle those players or their accomplishments, they will allways be Champions - it's just time now to call it the US Open 10 Ball Championships. Besides the only person who is supposed to rack the balls is the referree, white gloves are standard issue.
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Danny - Please explain how Ten-Ball is the answer. I see the same problems in Ten-Ball that exist in Nine-Ball. They are just emerging. Am I missing something?
 
Paul Schofield said:
Let's try from yet another angle. Let's say the Sardo Rack and the Magic Rack are the standard because they give us perfect frozen racks every time, and as a result, the wing ball goes in 90% of the time. We are demanding a perfect rack and if we don't make the wing ball, we feel cheated. We can easily fix everything. Let's just pretend we are all using them! That's right! After all, we are entitled to a perfect rack and we are entitled to a guaranteed ball every break. Let's take it the next step. We don't need these racks at all. Really! Let's all just pretend we make a ball on the break because, after all, we are supposed to if the balls are racked properly. With "breaker shoots after a legal break", everyone is made whole every time. It's fixed. We don't need the gadgets. The gadgets could fail but the rule would not.
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Paul's post really bares a reposting and some paying attention to. It's something you really should consider for more than two seconds. It really makes sense.
 
Best players are still winning so I don't see a real issue. Show us a match where the weak player wins just cause he's a rack specialist??

Are the rules ever perfect, no..... 10 ball for the US open 9 ball championship...doesnt make much sense

I guess we could make it mandatory push out after the break. Then we'd see the best mover, jumper, shot maker. It would be cool to see but it wouldn't be the US Open.

Then only thing I'd like to see is race to 25, single elimination. That to me would be cool.
 
Paul Schofield said:
Let's try from yet another angle. Let's say the Sardo Rack and the Magic Rack are the standard because they give us perfect frozen racks every time, and as a result, the wing ball goes in 90% of the time. We are demanding a perfect rack and if we don't make the wing ball, we feel cheated. We can easily fix everything. Let's just pretend we are all using them! That's right! After all, we are entitled to a perfect rack and we are entitled to a guaranteed ball every break. Let's take it the next step. We don't need these racks at all. Really! Let's all just pretend we make a ball on the break because, after all, we are supposed to if the balls are racked properly. With "breaker shoots after a legal break", everyone is made whole every time. It's fixed. We don't need the gadgets. The gadgets could fail but the rule would not.
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I think you have good points and I do like those no conflict rules. However, I'm afraid getting them accepted takes a long time.
 
Clark_the_Shark said:
Paul's post really bares a reposting and some paying attention to. It's something you really should consider for more than two seconds. It really makes sense.
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The more I look at the idea the less sense it makes. I just don't get it....why try and change the way the game is played instead of just dropping 9 ball altogether and playing 10 ball where the rack isn't nearly as much of an issue.
 
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