Mika stop crying about the rack!

U.S.Open Qualifier?

..at the 2010 U.S.Open, were the first 6 days a "rack your own" qualifier for the semi's and the finals? If this was to have been a designated, neutral racking tournament, no-complaints. However, Mika has every right to complain about the tournament not finishing with the "self-racking-rules" it started with!

Even though Appleton, may not have played the absolute best pool of the tournament, his game was consistent and he never faltered in doing what is always most important,
pocketing the balls!!! And better still, the only complaints that were heard, were about his own problems with the situations at the table.
All hail the 2010 U.S.Open champion, Darren Appleton!

BTW, everybody knows that plastic holds a static electric charge (that's why the comb and the piece of paper trick works), also, when a piece of aluminum is powder coated, a static charge is imparted to the aluminum and an opposite charge is given to the powder to hold it on the surface of the aluminum while it's baking. A question for the scientists out there, could it be a coincidence perhaps, that there is a remaining pull on the balls when the rack is taken away?????
 
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UGETTHE6 said:
Yes, but changing the rules last minute isn't fair. At the players meeting there was no talk of this. And frankly no one has anyhting to say about it except the players. It is b.s. If you are going to do rack your own, two things.

DONT make the 9 count, and DONT touch a ball once you put the balls in the rack. Wiring balls to go off the break is crap, put the balls in the rack, push them up and pull the rack off.

NOW, it is also players responsibility to NOT allow this to happen, so chanllege their rack twice, then the rule was and offical would come over and rack. I saw no one doing this, and frankly alot of people should have.

Raj H. said if he had won the tournament he was going to make a statement that he had just won a racking contest, because until the final 4, it was a racking contest.

I saw a player who wasnt known for their break, make a ball everytime he broke, because he was touching the balls behind the 9. Which makes the wing ball go.

So if they are being ALLOWED to have a racking contest, why not let them continue?

Again, these rules need to be addressed by the players not the AZers. For Berry to NOT allow the players to have a vote on the rack your own rule that was unfair.
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This is not the first time the referees have racked for televised matches! It has actually been standard fare for years, where the televised matches have a designated racker. World Pool Championships, World Cup of Pool, Predator International, World Pool Masters, U.S. Open Ten Ball, U.S. Open - ALL this year! In other words, it's common practice in professional pool to have referees racking for televised matches. So this argument is a fallacious one at best.

Racking wars! Please!!! Sounds like sour grapes to me. Take a look at the final eight/sixteen players. All very good players who played well to get as far as they did. I don't like to see someone demeaning the players who played so well all week to make it to the last two days of the Open. The guys who fell by the wayside along the way, did so because of they either missed more balls or played worse safeties/position then their opponents. Or they got a lump in their throat under pressure. Nothing new here either. It was NOT because their opponent was a better racker! Simply put, that's just an excuse for losing.

It's not an accident that Darren, Corey, Mika and Warren reached the final four. They all played consistently good for six days. And handled the pressure cooker that's the Open better than anyone else. And that's the name of that tune. In their heart of hearts, most if not all, the good players who lost matches know that it was their mistakes that cost them. Not because they didn't know how to rack the balls. "Rack your own" is nothing new in pool tournaments. It's been around for years!
 
jay helfert said:
This is not the first time the referees have racked for televised matches! It has actually been standard fare for years, where the televised matches have a designated racker. World Pool Championships, World Cup of Pool, Predator International, World Pool Masters, U.S. Open Ten Ball, U.S. Open - ALL this year! In other words, it's common practice in professional pool to have referees racking for televised matches. So this argument is a fallacious one at best.
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I have read over and over on this forum how racking is a learned skill and is a part of the game. Many players have spent endless hours practicing and focusing on their racking prowess: pattern racking, fingering and finagling the balls, freezing and spacing balls, and the like. These developed skills played a roll in every top finishers climb to the head of the chart. If these skills are desirable and acceptable and a part of every match, why are the skills made moot in the final rounds? It does not look or sound right to me. After all, its part of the game...or shouldn't it be? I mean really...what's it going to be?

It is 2010 and the debate rages on. This is far from settled business. I am with Mika on this one.
 
ooook...

I agree I know that there is a referee racking on televised matches. However, playing this rack your own, changes the game. Yes they have been doing it for years, but consider this "Further Rule" to the racking your own: some have these rules, in place SINCE they do ALLOW rack your own.

***
No 9 on the break.

Alternating the break.

Can't touch a ball after the rack has been lifted.

***

The rack your own speeds up the tournament, however, they emplace the aforementioned rules since they attempted to speed the processes by racking your own.

NOW if we think about this, we rack our own to speed the tournament up. And if it is so professional to DO this racking your own, why did Donnie Mills Stand up at the players’ meeting and make a complaint about it. Why did Mike Segal? Why did over 1/2 the players want to do a vote on the rule?

I have no gripe, the top level pro I played had nice tight racks, and I checked. Also he only made a ball ONCE on the break. So... I knew he was racking properly. That is Steve Moore for those who are wondering. He didn't fondle the rack to try and get a ball to fly in.

So there were racking games going on, and to not admit it, or realize it was happening is just crazy.



jay helfert said:
This is not the first time the referees have racked for televised matches! It has actually been standard fare for years, where the televised matches have a designated racker. World Pool Championships, World Cup of Pool, Predator International, World Pool Masters, U.S. Open Ten Ball, U.S. Open - ALL this year! In other words, it's common practice in professional pool to have referees racking for televised matches. So this argument is a fallacious one at best.

Racking wars! Please!!! Sounds like sour grapes to me. Take a look at the final eight/sixteen players. All very good players who played well to get as far as they did. I don't like to see someone demeaning the players who played so well all week to make it to the last two days of the Open. The guys who fell by the wayside along the way, did so because of they either missed more balls or played worse safeties/position then their opponents. Or they got a lump in their throat under pressure. Nothing new here either. It was NOT because their opponent was a better racker! Simply put, that's just an excuse for losing.

It's not an accident that Darren, Corey, Mika and Warren reached the final four. They all played consistently good for six days. And handled the pressure cooker that's the Open better than anyone else. And that's the name of that tune. In their heart of hearts, most if not all, the good players who lost matches know that it was their mistakes that cost them. Not because they didn't know how to rack the balls. "Rack your own" is nothing new in pool tournaments. It's been around for years!
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Mika is on the verge (if he's not there already) of becoming this generations Earl Strickland. He's a monster on the table especially when things are going his way but when one little thing goes wrong all the screws fall off.

I mean no disrespect to either player but if both of them would keep their emotions in check they would be almost unbeatable.
 
Aaron_S said:
I got a kick out of the comments from Mika and Corey in their post-match interviews.

Mika "Well, Corey's break, as goofy as it is, was working."

Corey "I have a lot of respect for Mika... as a player."

Definitely no love lost there.
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Reading between the lines.......
 
UGETTHE6 said:
I laughed when I saw this... What a good interview! Says everything I said earlier, it was a racking contest... Not a tournamnet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKRj24H0RU4&feature=player_embedded#at=71
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INCORRECT! Even if you made the wing ball, you still had to drive two more balls past the side pocket (no soft breaks) and get position on the one ball, and then run the other eight balls on a tough table. Funny how even the very best players averaged only 25-30% break and runs in their matches. I guess the other 70-75% of the racks shouldn't be considered.

Diamond vs. Brunswick - re: the claim by Raj that somehow Diamonds are inferior to Brunswick in some way. Wrong! Both are good tables, they just play a little differently. EVERYONE knows that Diamond rails bank a little shorter, and that's about it. If anything, the Diamond pockets are a little tougher, with deeper shelves and tighter pocket angles. You can't cheat those pockets! Funny how the guys who played the best all week were still standing on Friday and Saturday. Guess they just got lucky. :rolleyes:

Racking contest? Hogwash! When they play loser racks is when the real hi-jinks occur. Anyone who has ever been to a tournament has seen the long dramas surrounding the rack when the loser is racking for the winner. By far the lesser of two evils is having the winner rack for himself. Like I said in an earlier post, going to Ten Ball solves a lot of these problems.

Why does this negativity sound so much like sour grapes to me. I watched a lot of pool last week at the Open, and the best players were the ones who missed the fewest balls, played the best safeties and controlled the cue ball the best. The guys who made more errors lost matches, plain and simple. The most effective breaker I saw was Ralf Souquet and it still wasn't enough to assure him of victory. You can make the wing ball all day and all night, but if you can't handle the Open pressure and run the other eight balls, you won't win.

I'm curious UGETTHE6, did you play in the Open? Were you even there?
 
I guess i'd like to see Karen play Raj next and see what happens there.

Only other things i disagree with is some of the breaking issues.

The whole reason the soft break came about is because someone figured out how to make the head ball go in the side when the 9 was racked on the spot, and also figured out how to make the wing ball go in, and control virtually ALL the balls in a normal rack.

And the only reason the cut break came about was because someone wanted to take away the break from the wing and make it break from the box, and people adapted to solve that issue as well.

Taking those away is basically saying, "lets penalize the people who figured it out"
So that the people who didn't figure it out, don't lose to someone who is hitting them like a creampuff and having better results then them.
 
Somebody mentioned Mika said Cory's break was goofy. A classic example of not seeing the forest through the trees.

IMO the whole freaking game is goofy.

But, regardless, I do have a solution to the break problem.

Did you ever see those "Chug a Lug" games with the dice in the metal hour glass shaped cages that you turn over and over. Well ... super size one, put the damned balls in it, turn it a few times and then spill the balls on the table, cue ball included. End of problem.
 
Open ''Rules''

Condensed vesion of this thread from my view:

Jay had a situation that made racking very difficult.
Rack/break ck TV table before final
Call it the U.S. Open 10 Ball
Rack your own
Ten in the foot pocket spots, all others its a win
Not sure on the ''how many balls to the rail'', players should vote at meeting
Make it race to 9 and 11 in final win by two
Lag for break
New set of balls for the fiinal
Use existing cloth/do not change cloth on any table during the week of play (not that this was said)

Or plan B:

Make up a list of rules and have all players vote on what's best.

Someone had mentioned that allot of PGA courses are now 1000 yards longer than in the past, because of that here's my opinion.

9 ball is to me officially ''BROKEN'' as a pro rotation/tournament game. Pros need a reliable sport/product to bring their best game to the table.
 
Island Drive said:
Condensed vesion of this thread from my view:

Jay had a situation that made racking very difficult.
Rack/break ck TV table before final
Call it the U.S. Open 10 Ball
Rack your own
Ten in the foot pocket spots, all others its a win
Not sure on the ''how many balls to the rail'', players should vote at meeting
Make it race to 9 and 11 in final win by two
Lag for break
New set of balls for the fiinal
Use existing cloth/do not change cloth on any table during the week of play (not that this was said)

Or plan B:

Make up a list of rules and have all players vote on what's best.

Someone had mentioned that allot of PGA courses are now 1000 yards longer than in the past, because of that here's my opinion.

9 ball is to me officially ''BROKEN'' as a pro rotation/tournament game. Pros need a reliable sport/product to bring their best game to the table.
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Island Drive:

Concerning the bolded part above, I agree! I summarized a list of the BandAids that've been applied over the last couple of years to "patch" the broken game of 9-ball, and I was surprised at the size of the list, even merely rolling them off the cuff (read: I probably even missed a few):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2679246#post2679246

We can try to defend 9-ball all we want, but when you look at that list, it's pretty obvious that the game of 9-ball is just a duct-taped, twisted-coat-hanger-strapped game holding on by its fingernails these days. And yet, we *still* have people wanting to patch it, e.g. with "No Conflict" rules where the requirement to make a ball on the break is removed!

The "9-ball, The Video Game" cheat-sheet memorizing has got to go. Time for graduation to 10-ball, WPA rules.

IMHO,
-Sean
 
Island Drive said:
Condensed vesion of this thread from my view:

Jay had a situation that made racking very difficult.
Rack/break ck TV table before final
Call it the U.S. Open 10 Ball
Rack your own
Ten in the foot pocket spots, all others its a win
Not sure on the ''how many balls to the rail'', players should vote at meeting
Make it race to 9 and 11 in final win by two
Lag for break
New set of balls for the fiinal
Use existing cloth/do not change cloth on any table during the week of play (not that this was said)

Or plan B:

Make up a list of rules and have all players vote on what's best.

Someone had mentioned that allot of PGA courses are now 1000 yards longer than in the past, because of that here's my opinion.

9 ball is to me officially ''BROKEN'' as a pro rotation/tournament game. Pros need a reliable sport/product to bring their best game to the table.
Click to expand...

The problem is if Barry wishes to continue calling it the US Open he is stuck with 9 Ball since Mark Griffin owns the US Open 10 Ball Championship. :)
 
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