Bummer about the cigars.
Man charged for trading ivory
- Thread starter Gmanpoke
- Start date
Luckily I get all of my ivory from the local zoo. I know a guy out there and when I need to make a full ivory cue he just cuts off a chunk of tusk from a live elephant......hence....no poaching........and when he is out i just us human bones from vagrants that no one will miss......:rotflmao1:JOKE!!!!!!
No one that bought ivory from Joe will be in any trouble unless Joe told them they are buying poached elephant tusk parts. Chances are that Joe didn't even know what he was buying. I'm sure on elephant tusks there are about ten middle men involved in each transaction.....call me crazy....
No one that bought ivory from Joe will be in any trouble unless Joe told them they are buying poached elephant tusk parts. Chances are that Joe didn't even know what he was buying. I'm sure on elephant tusks there are about ten middle men involved in each transaction.....call me crazy....
In keeping with the case, I now wonder how this will effect the sales of cues going into the UK and if customs will scrutinize the cues more.
I used to be against the use of ivory in cues...but a little research goes a long way.
Some of the preban ivory was garnered from elephants that died naturally. One has to remember that there are many severe drought years on the savannas of Africa. With the large elephant herds, there was a lot of die-off from starvation.
Now, yes, there are poachers, and they kill the elephants expressly for the purpose of harvesting the ivory. They don't stick around for the meat.
As JV pointed out, the bottom line here is to know the laws concerning the shipping of ivory into or out of the country...and this means in cues. Every time you do so, you take a risk. Even if his ivory was preban, it is still not legal to ship cues into or out of the states unless you can provide the correct CITES paperwork...and many countries ban it altogether. There has been at least one overseas collector who has been raided, his collection seized, and the collector jailed, as a result of owning cues with elephant ivory in them.
Lisa
Some of the preban ivory was garnered from elephants that died naturally. One has to remember that there are many severe drought years on the savannas of Africa. With the large elephant herds, there was a lot of die-off from starvation.
Now, yes, there are poachers, and they kill the elephants expressly for the purpose of harvesting the ivory. They don't stick around for the meat.
As JV pointed out, the bottom line here is to know the laws concerning the shipping of ivory into or out of the country...and this means in cues. Every time you do so, you take a risk. Even if his ivory was preban, it is still not legal to ship cues into or out of the states unless you can provide the correct CITES paperwork...and many countries ban it altogether. There has been at least one overseas collector who has been raided, his collection seized, and the collector jailed, as a result of owning cues with elephant ivory in them.
Lisa
Quite likely. I would think that all Customs Inspectors will be on heightened alert after this incident. Gonna make it tough for a while to get one overseas to or fro.
Jamie, this is the best post in the entire thread, and makes more sense than anything typed by lettuce-head. If I could kill elephants with my loins, I would never go hungry.
If you could kill elephants with your loins, you would be highly sought after indeed!!!! :grin:
In 1988 United States passed the the African Elephant Conservation Act [16 USCS § 4201] to save existing populations of elephants. The 'Ban' is for the import of ivory, not for possession.
Ivory that was legally acquired before February of 1977 can be legally imported into the US.
Export raw ivory from the U.S. is illegal under the act.
Ivory harvested as tusks during the course of a sport hunt can be bought back as trophy, along with the hide.
Old ivory should be legal, if it appears to look new (ask for proof).
http://www.ehow.com/how_2156113_import-ivory-legally.html#ixzz13ltJaqFr
http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/african-elephant-conservation-act/
To put things in perspective, I believe this a picture of one of the owners of Brunswick resting on a normal shipment of Ivory balls back in the 19th century. This supposedly represents a pair of elephants lined up 10 miles long.
Ivory that was legally acquired before February of 1977 can be legally imported into the US.
Export raw ivory from the U.S. is illegal under the act.
Ivory harvested as tusks during the course of a sport hunt can be bought back as trophy, along with the hide.
Old ivory should be legal, if it appears to look new (ask for proof).
http://www.ehow.com/how_2156113_import-ivory-legally.html#ixzz13ltJaqFr
http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/african-elephant-conservation-act/
To put things in perspective, I believe this a picture of one of the owners of Brunswick resting on a normal shipment of Ivory balls back in the 19th century. This supposedly represents a pair of elephants lined up 10 miles long.
Attachments
For Several Reasons:
- Elephant gestations time is nearly two years.
- It takes two to four years until they can have another calf.
- They only have a single baby.
- Elephants do not grow their adult tusks till after year one.
- Tusks grow at a rate of 7in per year. It would take several years before they could be harvested.
Needless to say, it would be cost prohibitive.
Jamie forgot to mention that lions are smart enough to go after only very young elephants without much protection. Any small elephant by his mothers side has little to fear from a lion. By the time an elephant is large enough to have tusks he's large enough to defend himself against lions. Size matters.
Dave
You didn't read the story. He already pleaded guilty.
I am totally against buying poached elephant tusk, but most of what is in cues today is completely legal ivory. I love people that go off the deep end with this subject, and have a whole closet full of Nike shoes that 20 8yr. old Asian kids made while working 22 hour days in less than satisfactory conditions. Last time I checked that is illegal also, but you don't see people shutting down Nike do ya....
no you don't but nikes a billion dollar company they can buy their way out of that....Joe Barringer may as well be a street rat compared to them no disrespect to joe lol.
Sad to see things like this....
I strongly agree, but I can also see the cases where exceptions may be made. If the cue can be considered historical, and has Ivory in it that predates the Endangered Species Act and embargo/ban on Ivory, I can concede that exception. However, if you're buying a new cue and you want Ivory in it, not only are you breaking the law but I seriously can't comprehend why you find nothing inherently immoral about this. Yes, let's contribute to the extinction of a species so that we can have some uber-cool white crap in our cues.
Screw that. I think that preserving the state of our planet and the creatures that inhabit it is far more important than how my cue looks.
So... you flip flopped cuz...
Your previous rantings and scoldings against people using ivory were uninformed, and off base?
Eric >just callin it like I sees it
Here's the truth, If it's ivory, In a pool cue and it's gets flagged in Alaska, coming into this Country, even with documentation, unless of course it's from the F&W office itself, THEY DON'T CARE. Who ever the package is addressed too, is getting fined. This also goes for exotic wraps.
I love all my Nike shoes 
While this is true, you can not deny that the demand for "legal ivory" is what leads to the poaching and selling of "illegal ivory". If there was no demand for ivory whatsoever, there would be no reason for poachers to poach it. Makes complete sense to me.
That's interesting logic. I see your point and how it can be applied to a number of other problems we have in the world. For instance, if we can convince everyone that they don't want to ever have sex, then the demand for 'illegal sex' would just simply disappear. Basically, anything that has problems or issues - we simply tell the people who enjoy it legally, that they should no longer want to do it, just so the illegal aspects disappear.
What a great solution! How about pool cue theft? If we get rid of the demand for ALL pool cues, then pool cue theft would certainly end.
The Rule Of Law
No one is above the law.
The rule of law is fundamental to the western democratic order. Aristotle said more than two thousand years ago, "The rule of law is better than that of any individual."
"The King himself ought not to be subject to man, but subject to God and the law, because the law makes him King".
Respect the law even if you don't like it or agree with it.
The rule of law is a foundation for both our liberties and for order.
The ivory business is bringing the elephants to extinction. Which as a result will affect the balance of nature and ecosystem at the area where they exist.
Just because you like how it looks in your pool cue, there's no other reason why people who reads this forum should be interested on ivory. The damage is far greater than the benefit. No one is to blame either because those who are after ivory do not know the consequences of their actions and that's why they continue with their practice.
As always education in this manner is what everyone needs.
No one is above the law.
The rule of law is fundamental to the western democratic order. Aristotle said more than two thousand years ago, "The rule of law is better than that of any individual."
"The King himself ought not to be subject to man, but subject to God and the law, because the law makes him King".
Respect the law even if you don't like it or agree with it.
The rule of law is a foundation for both our liberties and for order.
The ivory business is bringing the elephants to extinction. Which as a result will affect the balance of nature and ecosystem at the area where they exist.
Just because you like how it looks in your pool cue, there's no other reason why people who reads this forum should be interested on ivory. The damage is far greater than the benefit. No one is to blame either because those who are after ivory do not know the consequences of their actions and that's why they continue with their practice.
As always education in this manner is what everyone needs.