U.S. Open Update

Jay,

If there are some volunteers available for racking or shot clock assignments, will you use them? would these volunteers have to be in an approved list?

Slow play is a killer for a tournament. As long as the players can get away with the slow play without penalties, it will continue.

Maybe an 'Unsportsmanlike penalty warning' and a shot clock should do it.

Was the HOF dinners put on a shot clock? IMO. something that should have been done. :rolleyes:
 
U.S. Open -

I DO think a big problem IS racking. Another solution is the use of "rackers". Give these positions to volunteers in exchange for all the tournament access and perhaps a small token of thanks. If not, MAGIC BALL RACK is the next best option (if you can negotiate a $$$ deal with them)! I.M.O.


Hello Jay,

My only two cents would be to use the MAGIC RACK!!!!!!!!

Racking problem solved.

I know that you will lose the revenue from the "other" company though.

Maybe the trade off is worth it??

Take care buddy..

Russ
 
Delta was a big sponsor for the us open this year. I just hope he can part with some of the money to go with a more consistent product in the magic rack. I like the delta 13 i just think with the magic rack it will take away alot of the re-racking problems. Also spotting the 9 after its made on the break in the bottom two pockets is a great idea.
 
Delta was a big sponsor for the us open this year. I just hope he can part with some of the money to go with a more consistent product in the magic rack. I like the delta 13 i just think with the magic rack it will take away alot of the re-racking problems. Also spotting the 9 after its made on the break in the bottom two pockets is a great idea.

Don't need the spot the 9 rule with Magic Rack. The 9 ain't going in the pocket unless it gets kicked, and the fans like the win on the break rule. I'll bet Corey couldn't make the 9 on the break given 20 or more tries. Johnnyt
 
Today's pros have so much knowledge about racking that wasn't available to players even 20 yrs ago, I think it would be neat to see, the last two days with designated rackers and let the players break without looking at the rack. I'll bet they all start breaking harder, remembering how they broke when successful (or their opponent, when successful). And the game would flow beautifully (like it did in the 80's). Also, we could gauge a little better the players from yesterday and today.
 
Both the proposed changes to racking and slow play seem awful open to interpretation by officials if I'm reading Jay's post right.

Dollars to donuts, the higher up the food chain an offending player might be, the more officials will give them the benefit of doubt. And what happens if a guy like Charlie Bryant steps into the U.S. Open. He can literally take eons to make a triple bank shot. But make them he does, more times than not. Forcing him to fast play on a clock puts him at a severe disadvantage. Some people are just slow players. If a match goes long, so be it. Most guys play at decent pace and the few that don't, well how much do they really affect the overall tournament timing - a few hours here and there? I guess you could put some really offending slow player on a shot clock, but again, you better have some pretty clear rules outlining the circumstances when this may occur. I just don't see it happening - development of clear, precise shot clock rules that is.

On the racking, just get a magic rack. The thing works like nothing else.

But again, dollars to donuts, the rack manufacturer of the moment who is a sponsor will have his rack in use, so we will just be back to the same old controversy again and again, even with whatever tinkering Barry does with the rack rules. The players want a tight rack. Give it to them.

Better yet, simply forget about 9-ball as the championship game. Go to 10-ball. The championship should be about shooting and thinking your way around the table, not racking and breaks. But I'm probably tilting against windmills on the 10-ball thing. Sure as the sun rises though, 9-ball championships are headed for the graveyard because of the rack and break problems and no amount of tinkering with the rules is going to save it.
 
The players want a tight rack. Give it to them.


I think too many players are more interested in gaining a racking advantage than a tight rack. This is part of the pool culture bred from survival of the fittest IMO.

Better yet, simply forget about 9-ball as the championship game. Go to 10-ball. The championship should be about shooting and thinking your way around the table, not racking and breaks.

tap tap tap

I guess Barry could switch to 10 ball. Hell, it's his event.
 
If they are making wings balls on a tight rack why not let then just rack their own. Maybe only disclude the 9 in the corners if it goes in clean. Let them pattern rack. Slow racking is always going to be an issue with someone else racking. Let them soft break too. what ever they want and then if too many people are putting together 11 packs, make the races longer. Its nineball. Donny Mills and Corey didnt win the open. There is a 10 ball open already isnt there?
 
Don't need the spot the 9 rule with Magic Rack. The 9 ain't going in the pocket unless it gets kicked, and the fans like the win on the break rule. I'll bet Corey couldn't make the 9 on the break given 20 or more tries. Johnnyt

Johnny, I will say this. The Magic Rack will be considered as a possibility for next year's event. If it makes things work better (and run smoother), that's what Barry wants.
 
If they are making wings balls on a tight rack why not let then just rack their own. Maybe only disclude the 9 in the corners if it goes in clean. Let them pattern rack. Slow racking is always going to be an issue with someone else racking. Let them soft break too. what ever they want and then if too many people are putting together 11 packs, make the races longer. Its nineball. Donny Mills and Corey didnt win the open. There is a 10 ball open already isnt there?

When was the last time someone ran 11in the Open. I'm not sure it's ever been done.
 
I kinda liked the Sardo Racks. They gave a pretty consistent rack, the same for both players. It's a shame they can't have those.
 
US Open

One way to help slow play would be to give each player an amount of time to play a match like chess.
When he leaves the table he hits his clock and the other guys time starts, when he leaves he hits the .
clock and the opponents clock starts.
That way they both have say an hour per match to play 9 games.
If one player runs out of time he loses a game and gets 1 increment of the original clock back.
Each increment would be around 6 minutes or 1 tenth of the original time allotment.
This way if a player had a really tough problem to work out he could take 5 minutes or so to shoot it but would have to play faster on most other shots to catch up with the timer.
If there had been a 30 second shot clock on Efrens matches think of all the great pool we would have missed.
 
Jay,

I think the shot clock would be a great benefit to the speeding up the matches.

Require it to be in use on the TV table, 30 Seconds with 1 extension per trip to the table.

Stay with rack your own. Even in the finals this time, and put the shot clock on the rack as well. You have 30 seconds from gathering the balls to get em up and ready to break.

Your opponent can inspect and require a rerack. If the rerack appears to be obviously gimmicked the referee can be called to the table. If the referee agrees that 1) A wing ball was left intentionally lose or 2) A Ball or Balls have been pulled off the back of the 9 intentionally, the break will be forfeited.

For the other 15 tables I would ask Jerry or Mike to call down to the scorers table and report what tables have not hit certain water marks as far as games played at certain intervals.

I would think it would be easiest for them to notify the scorers table than for the officials to track it since they could put the starting time onto the table graphic they use for real time scoring updates.

At 11am or 7pm starting time is not an issue. Actual starting time would be an issue for the scorers table to track for the other time slots.

If 30 minutes in you don't have 5 total games on the wire you get a warning.

At 1 hour the mark would be 10 total games.

At 1.5 hours 15 total games.

At 2 hours 18 total games.

Only way a non TV table gets a shot-clock is to be warned at a 30 minute interval and then still be behind the game requirements at the next interval.

As far as staffing the shot-clocks have Barry hold a calender girl contest.

Get 12 girls together and you could staff 6 for the AM session and then 6 for the PM session.

You could have Diana Hoppe or Alison Fischer come in and do the photography for the calender and then you could sell the calenders at the Open and Online with parts of the proceeds paying the photographer, the girls, the calender printing costs, and anything left over would go into the kitty for next years open.

I can imagine lots of spectators trying harder to get all the calender girl's autographs on the proper month than the open winner's signatures on the right box in the the tournament program.
 
I would go about it a different way. I would try to figure out WHY the players are all playing so slow AND FIX THAT. The fix is probably a whole lot easier than one would imagine.
 
Jay,

I think the shot clock would be a great benefit to the speeding up the matches.

Require it to be in use on the TV table, 30 Seconds with 1 extension per trip to the table.

Stay with rack your own. Even in the finals this time, and put the shot clock on the rack as well. You have 30 seconds from gathering the balls to get em up and ready to break.

Your opponent can inspect and require a rerack. If the rerack appears to be obviously gimmicked the referee can be called to the table. If the referee agrees that 1) A wing ball was left intentionally lose or 2) A Ball or Balls have been pulled off the back of the 9 intentionally, the break will be forfeited.

For the other 15 tables I would ask Jerry or Mike to call down to the scorers table and report what tables have not hit certain water marks as far as games played at certain intervals.

I would think it would be easiest for them to notify the scorers table than for the officials to track it since they could put the starting time onto the table graphic they use for real time scoring updates.

At 11am or 7pm starting time is not an issue. Actual starting time would be an issue for the scorers table to track for the other time slots.

If 30 minutes in you don't have 5 total games on the wire you get a warning.

At 1 hour the mark would be 10 total games.

At 1.5 hours 15 total games.

At 2 hours 18 total games.

Only way a non TV table gets a shot-clock is to be warned at a 30 minute interval and then still be behind the game requirements at the next interval.

As far as staffing the shot-clocks have Barry hold a calender girl contest.

Get 12 girls together and you could staff 6 for the AM session and then 6 for the PM session.

You could have Diana Hoppe or Alison Fischer come in and do the photography for the calender and then you could sell the calenders at the Open and Online with parts of the proceeds paying the photographer, the girls, the calender printing costs, and anything left over would go into the kitty for next years open.

I can imagine lots of spectators trying harder to get all the calender girl's autographs on the proper month than the open winner's signatures on the right box in the the tournament program.

Some good suggestions here Renfro, and actually we do use some of these guidelines to determine if a match is taking too long. I like the calendar girl idea very much as long as I get to be the judge. :smile:
 
HI Jay, Let me say that you and your crew did a great job at the open this year. One of the main things I heard about besides the racking was the time frame of getting paid. Quite a few people had to stay an extra night because of how the had the pay window set up. I would suggest having the money already put in envelops in a safe and pay them as they get put out of the tournament. Quite a few players were complaining about this and was over heard saying that they were not coming back if they have to go through that again. One more thing was how cold they had it in their all week. A few people left early because they said it was just to cold to sit and watch anymore. Just a few things I heard and thought I would share with you. Best of luck.
 
HI Jay, Let me say that you and your crew did a great job at the open this year. One of the main things I heard about besides the racking was the time frame of getting paid. Quite a few people had to stay an extra night because of how the had the pay window set up. I would suggest having the money already put in envelops in a safe and pay them as they get put out of the tournament. Quite a few players were complaining about this and was over heard saying that they were not coming back if they have to go through that again. One more thing was how cold they had it in their all week. A few people left early because they said it was just to cold to sit and watch anymore. Just a few things I heard and thought I would share with you. Best of luck.

First of all - THANKS! - Ken, Bill and I plus our helpers Amber and Tim worked our asses off for seven days.

Most players got knocked out in evening matches, so they had to stay over anyway. Times were clearly posted on the tournament office door when pay outs would be made the following day. Only a couple of people had access to the office safe and I think it's a little unreasonable to think they should have to stop what they're doing to pay one person at a time. I can imagine what this would look like when paying all the players who finished 65th-96th or 49th-64th. That's a lot of running back and forth, opening the safe, filling out forms etc. I think paying IN CASH the next day is a very good arrangement and worked out quite well for all concerned. I didn't see any unhappy faces or hear any complaints while I was there.

A couple of guys asked me (late at night) about getting paid, and when I told them the times were posted on the tournament door for pay outs the next day, they said fine and left. A player could always opt to leave right away and he would have received his check in the mail instead. Once again, all the pay outs have been handled in a prompt and courteous manner this year. Just to clear the air on that point, 3rd through 96th were paid in cash immediately (the next day)! First and second are in the process of being paid in full, and in a very timely manner I might add. Corey has received most of his winnings and will get the rest next week. Darren is receiving four equal weekly payments and will be paid in full prior to the Mosconi Cup. I call this full disclosure, so there is nothing to hide. I also wanted to know how payments were being handled this year, so being me, I asked!

Even Matchroom usually takes anywhere from two weeks to a month to send players their money via wire transfer, so for the winner to get paid in full in one month is no big deal. That's customary. So now you know the whole story. There were 96 winners this year and not one is unhappy about it! That's the bottom line here.

P.S. I agree that it was a little too cold in the arena, with the thermostat set at 68 degrees every day. I got some cockamanny explanation about how the aircon system worked there but I'm not buying it. Next year, NO WAY is all I have to say about that! 70-72 degrees should work just fine.
 
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I think you guys did a great job. I have actually played in the event around ten years ago. The only rule I don't like is on the break, that so many balls had to make it past the side pocket. I believe this rule should be changed. If the incoming player wants to break hard, soft or in between they should be allowed. Its like taking the driver away from Tiger Woods in golf. Should someone be punished because they can break better than someone else (hard, soft or in between). Plus I would think 10-Ball would be a better game. And call your pocket would be good. Just my thoughts.
 
great job guys in US Open, I really enjoyed it.

a suggestion: to bring back the 80's type of play, by making the players Needs to really break hard to get better result, instead of breaking them the way they are doing now, put on a slower type of cloth, this will accomplish two things, 1) Breaking Hard just like the old buddy hall/Earl strickland breaks to get result. and 2) players will need a great stroke to do what they really need to do.

I think back the 80's the cloth were slower than what it is now.

the today cloth is really easy, softer breaks, no stroke to draw cueball for far distance and all of that.

Just a though, this might bring back the old game.
 
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