Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.

[ridewiththewind]

If I read that correctly, the OP said the cue had defects / was a "second." Was the pot/kettle/black directed at him or someone else? I think that ebay ad was ok. The buyer knew they were getting a PW cue brand new and real cheap and the ad said it had defects--- so that's up-front.

Just curious-
Dave

In my mind, the cue's price was inline with what he paid for it, so where was the 'cheap'? Splitting hairs but, this cue did not have 'factory defects', which typically indicates minor imperfections...I cannot think of one well respected production/semi-production cue company that would have let such defects out the door either. Hiding this little disclaimer in the "Conditions" section, where the full disclosure is not fully visible is walking a very, very fine line, IMHO. I would have felt much more comfortable with the ad had he made it a point to mention the defects within the body of his ad, along with the specs.

It feels barely legal to me, and a clear attempt to try and dump a POS cue on some unsuspecting soul, all the while recouping his full losses.

Perry pulled a fast one, Joey attempted to pull a fast one...my sympathy is gone.

Lisa

 

[ridewiththewind]

Not exactly Spider. The blurb about the condition is the EBay standard verbage:



The part I highlighted is quite important. There is no mention of an imperfections in the seller's listing.

Thank you! My feelings exactly. I don't care that the listing was from 3 weeks ago...it's still clear as to the OP's intent. He walked a very fine line as to disclosure in his listing. The cue didn't sell, so now he's really angry, so he comes here and besmirches Dave Jacoby and the ACA for not helping him?! As I have previously stated, with this recent revelation, my sympathy for the OP is gone. He no longer has the cue, so his case is gone. Karma has a way of coming round and biting one in the a$$.

 

[qbilder]

Eric;


Aside from not bringing up PW's finances, or filing for a torturous small-clams action, can you suggest any other way he could have better handled this?

Best,
Brian kc

I don't have a problem with the OP ratting out the builder for a shoddy deal. That's his every right to do so. There were just lines that he never had to cross, and could still have made his point clear. It was a professional deal gone bad, not personal. When it became a personal fight, it should have remained private. Revealing how the man handled the professional business transaction would have been just fine and all the private stuff & dragging others into the mix could have been avoided.

 

[joeyb]

I sold 2 cues as a pair and the custom cost me a little over $2,000.00 alone. I lost a great deal of money on the transaction. When I made up my mind to sell it I was prepared to lose.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Flame away at me.... but that cue sucked so bad PW should be crucified for sending that to Joey and telling him he owns it as-is and to cry to his mother.

Now, here we are pages into a thread discussing this and that--- for what? There shouldn't have been a thread because PW should have re-made the cue or refunded his money. Firing Joey as a customer (for whatever reason) is acceptable as long as it's paired with one of the above options. Sending a junk cue into the market like that is only begging to be crucified in internet forums, imo.

Rep sent... I saw the cue and was mortified...There is no excuse period in this situation, both the ACA and Perry Weston are losers here because it reflects back to the ACA... Yes, the ACA SHOULD be accountable for it's members,...it's their principals that "keep the standard"...how do you blow that off?... PW should be ashamed of himself!!! If you didn't see the cue...How can you possibly judge the situation?...and blame the OP ? That's just foolish... Even if the OP was APITA to Perry...Does that justify sending out a piece of junk?...hardly... I know this is kicking a dead horse since the cue is already sold...but there is no way to justify any of this by blaming the OP...he was a customer for Christ's sake!!! Put yourself in his shoes... Mark Weston off my list as well as anyone else taking up for him...sheesh!!!

 

[Ky Boy]

My, my.....this thread has spiraled today......


Im amazed that the OP received the shittiest custom cue I seen in years and he is attacked.......While some may feel that the "personal" info was over the line it was part of public informaiton except for his speculation of why the property had changed hands and the whole money problem bit. I have seen no one slander about the ACA or PW other than to say it is sad that PW sent this cue out and the ACA stands for what??

What function does the ACA have in the cuemaking business???

The OP listed the cue as a factory second....wow!!! It was a custom cue he listed as a factory second.........so he gets drilled for not giving his complete and total opinion of the cue????

Maybe from now on any cue being sold on this site or anywhere else for that matter should be listed as selling because Im flipping

or selling because it hits like shit

or selling because it just doesn't do it for me anymore

or selling because my wife said it had to go

or selling because Im flat ass broke

People don't geive up every ounce of information on why they are selling a cue and should not be expected to.......


joeyb......sorry you lost so much money on this cue man.....If I ever win the lottery I will send you a great custom cue..........lol

 

[Bishop]

I consider it a fair and reasonable reselling of the cue. He's not obligated to leave a detailed description above and beyond the verbiage that is fine printed on the ad. The buyer assumes the risk when disclaimers are there and I consider it completely different in context when compared to the screw job he was originally hit with.

He didn't make unscrupulous claims or promises. He choose to not over advertise its shortcomings.

 

[ribdoner]

....................

 

[qbilder]

I consider it a fair and reasonable reselling of the cue. He's not obligated to leave a detailed description above and beyond the verbiage that is fine printed on the ad. The buyer assumes the risk when disclaimers are there and I consider it completely different in context when compared to the screw job he was originally hit with.

He didn't make unscrupulous claims or promises. He choose to not over advertise its shortcomings.

I can't disagree. Ebay is completely different than custom ordering. Ebay also has protocol for unhappy buyers, so there's a set procedure for them to follow in order to rectify the situation if somebody is unhappy. He got screwed with the custom order. That part is indisputable.

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

I consider it a fair and reasonable reselling of the cue. He's not obligated to leave a detailed description above and beyond the verbiage that is fine printed on the ad. The buyer assumes the risk when disclaimers are there and I consider it completely different in context when compared to the screw job he was originally hit with.

He didn't make unscrupulous claims or promises. He choose to not over advertise its shortcomings.

This Ebay ad is crap, plain and simple. I've sold a few used cues on Ebay, and describe the most minor imperfection on each cue, so they bid on the cue accordingly. If the shaft has a role,they are going to bid a little less. If the cue needs a new leather wrap, than bidders know there is some more expense after the purchase because wrap has to be done, and again, bid accordingly.

But for this jerk, yes, I'm using the term jerk here because I defended him, and rightly so, but then he decides to do EXACTLY what Weston did to him. There is no difference. Unsuspecting buyer on Ebay buys cue, pays in advance, has cue shipped to his home and then he opens this Pandora's Box of cue monstrosity after spending a few grand. Is this NOT exactly what happened to joeyb????? Exact same scenario.

And, for the record, since joeyb was so forthcoming on the problems of the cue, and listed the DEFECTS line by line on AZB, but then NEVER mentions them on EBAY, he would lose knowing he was aware of all known defects on this cue....

How would you like to have bought this cue on EBAY ?? You would have GONE nuts. I"ve bought and sold over 250 items on ebay and i'm a perfect 100%. I sold a 10 year old original Schuler recently that I bought new...shaft had a very small role, the some minor surface scratches near the butt, etc. Even after descrbing it I was afriad the guy would not like it and offered money back guarantee. But I was honest, he got a good deal, and I got great feedback because he GOT exactly what I described. ANYTHING else is BS. Plus, the fact that joeyb knew full well, makes his conduct extremely unethical.

I think Weston is wrong in this, but joeyb has shown his true stripes as well, and was more than willing to pawn this POS cue on some poor sap, take the bad rating on EBAY and move on with his life.....

Well done, you have stooped to Westons level, and now expect sympathy from us....Take your fight elsewhere.....When two losers are fighting, there is nobody left for us to cheer !!!!

 

[sengkun108]

Why is it very hard for every one to see the truth in this thread??

1. The Op get a "factory second cue", for a price of "Custom cue"
I don't care if he lose just 100$ or maybe 1000$ for selling the cue to someone else. The problem is he dissapointed with PW's Act not "Work", and decide to brought up public. Maybe his intention is to get our support to push PW, but we can make a positive gain from this situation. Beware to making bussiness with Perry Weston.
2. ACA and Mr Jacoby is INVOLVED is this situation, because PW is ACA member. If in ACA there are no rule or regulation to handle such situation, this can be a momentum for build one.
3. There are some Bad cuemaker out there.
Mine as example, I order 4 oz shaft and 3x8x10 joint pin and the cuemaker send me a 3,6 oz shaft and uncommon 3x8x8 joint pin. He over the deadline 5 month. The only good thing he did to me is, he gave me 2x4 case free and i change my cue wood from ashwood to bocote after we have an aggrement to deal with ashwood (No charge). I dissapointed with how he working my cue. After he got my money upfront, he change his attitude. He reply my message very late andi believe that is why he making me a wrong joint pin and wrong shaft weight. I dissapointed for his ACT (That is why he making mistake) not his work. And it cost me 700 $ lost.
That is why, ACA must put a serious note for making some regulation in the future. Because OP story and my story is not the first and only. i believe there are some similar story out there. People choose to order a custom cue because various reason, some because the cuemaker is ACA member (So the Cuemaker must be a Profesional). ACA must have a responsibility for that.


Best
Dedy:smile:

 

[Bishop]

This Ebay ad is crap, plain and simple. I've sold a few used cues on Ebay, and describe the most minor imperfection on each cue, so they bid on the cue accordingly. If the shaft has a role,they are going to bid a little less. If the cue needs a new leather wrap, than bidders know there is some more expense after the purchase because wrap has to be done, and again, bid accordingly.

But for this jerk, yes, I'm using the term jerk here because I defended him, and rightly so, but then he decides to do EXACTLY what Weston did to him. There is no difference. Unsuspecting buyer on Ebay buys cue, pays in advance, has cue shipped to his home and then he opens this Pandora's Box of cue monstrosity after spending a few grand. Is this NOT exactly what happened to joeyb????? Exact same scenario.

And, for the record, since joeyb was so forthcoming on the problems of the cue, and listed the DEFECTS line by line on AZB, but then NEVER mentions them on EBAY, he would lose knowing he was aware of all known defects on this cue....

How would you like to have bought this cue on EBAY ?? You would have GONE nuts. I"ve bought and sold over 250 items on ebay and i'm a perfect 100%. I sold a 10 year old original Schuler recently that I bought new...shaft had a very small role, the some minor surface scratches near the butt, etc. Even after descrbing it I was afriad the guy would not like it and offered money back guarantee. But I was honest, he got a good deal, and I got great feedback because he GOT exactly what I described. ANYTHING else is BS. Plus, the fact that joeyb knew full well, makes his conduct extremely unethical.

I think Weston is wrong in this, but joeyb has shown his true stripes as well, and was more than willing to pawn this POS cue on some poor sap, take the bad rating on EBAY and move on with his life.....

Well done, you have stooped to Westons level, and now expect sympathy from us....Take your fight elsewhere.....When two losers are fighting, there is nobody left for us to cheer !!!!

I hear what you're saying and I completely understand where you're coming from but Perry sold this guy a cue as a top of the line custom piece of work. High expectations and all that jazz.

There should be little to no confusion with this line.

"the item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects."

Vague and all. It begs for questions to be asked, which are up to any prospective buyer to seek. It wasn't advertised in the same fashion with the same expectation that Perry advertised his services to the OP.

I do sympathize with the assumption that the OP could have offered some additional insights. Getting off on a technicality I suppose but as a buyer I would have read that generic disclaimer and sent the guy a message asking for clarification. No response would have prompted me to skip on the buy.

Are we all now not expected or capable of reading a basic disclaimer. I know I always look for stuff like that. Pants with a missing pocket, uneven legs, stereo with missing buttons or scratch and dent items. Its the backbone of the retail market...entire stores are dedicated to it.

I just don't frown on it as much I do with what Perry did to this guy.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I'm sad that I have to agree with ChicagoRJ.
I asked Joey to send pics to me and my view of Perry hasn't changed a bit.
I had Joey's back, but not after seeing the EBay ad.

Joey stated that Perry Weston made his money problems, my problems.
3 weeks prior to posting this ad, Joey attempted to make his problems, someone elses. Nothing more, nothing less. I can't feel sorry for someone who got screwed trying to screw someone else.
Sorry Joey, that kind of s h i t doesn't cut it in my book. The standard factory second line is just way too thin to garner any further sympathy on this forum.

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

I hear what you're saying and I completely understand where you're coming from but Perry sold this guy a cue as a top of the line custom piece of work. High expectations and all that jazz.

There should be little to no confusion with this line.

"the item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects."

Vague and all. It begs for questions to be asked, which are up to any prospective buyer to seek. It wasn't advertised in the same fashion with the same expectation that Perry advertised his services to the OP.

I do sympathize with the assumption that the OP could have offered some additional insights. Getting off on a technicality I suppose but as a buyer I would have read that generic disclaimer and sent the guy a message asking for clarification. No response would have prompted me to skip on the buy.

Are we all now not expected or capable of reading a basic disclaimer. I know I always look for stuff like that. Pants with a missing pocket, uneven legs, stereo with missing buttons or scratch and dent items. Its the backbone of the retail market...entire stores are dedicated to it.

I just don't frown on it as much I do with what Perry did to this guy.

I hear ya too !! But wrong is wrong regardless of the level. Are we not capable of being honest and upfront so as not to literally ruin someones day by selling this POS cue. He didn't like it, so he should be the first one to understand how it feels. OP knew exactly the condition of the cue, knew it was not a "factory second or unused item with defects". This cue was a Total Loss. The cue should come with a salvage title.

He didn't lie completely, but did enough to confuse an unsophisticated buyer. But his obvious omissions would be put him in the fraud category through deception if they went to court over the Ebay transaction, especially after the EBAY buyer saw his rants here... But when it came time to describe this fabulous cue, here are his words with my comments in RED;

*Brand new-Perry Weston Cue New but completley and utterly defective

- Delivered September 3, 2010 from Perry Weston direct. but completey void of quality workmanship.
- One of a Kind. (well, technically he is correct here, but I seriously doubt he meant it is one of a kind because nobody else would build it in this "condition"
- Genuine elephant ear wrap With genuine frayed edges to match a harley riders jacket
- ebony, silver, purple heart Ebony?? questionable what the heck was actually used it was so pathetic
- 12 point (3 high/ 3 low in the forearm, 3 high/3 low in the butt sleeve)
- 132 inlays (silver stars, silver diamonds, silver spear heads, silver squares) how they were located on the cue is another matter.
- 2 shafts(both 12.75, 3.6oz)
- Matching joint protectors(shaft protectors are numbered I and II in purple heart inlays) OK, the JP's were pretty sweet, ya got me there !!
- Weight is 18oz with no weight bolts. Weight can be added
- Elforyn ferrules and Kamui black medium tips
- Titanium radial pin
He forgot to add "will burn nicely in any open fire pit !!

Little lies are still lies: IE:

Husband: Honey, did you screw Bill,
Wife: of course not.
Husband: are you sure.
Wife: I would never do that to you as you are the love of my life.
Husband: OK, so you never screwed Bill, not even before you met me?
Wife: of course not. He's not my type.

Now, if she only provided oral favors to Bill, is she no longer a lying Biotch ??

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I hear what you're saying and I completely understand where you're coming from but Perry sold this guy a cue as a top of the line custom piece of work. High expectations and all that jazz.

There should be little to no confusion with this line.

"the item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects."


Are we all now not expected or capable of reading a basic disclaimer. I know I always look for stuff like that. Pants with a missing pocket, uneven legs, stereo with missing buttons or scratch and dent items. Its the backbone of the retail market...entire stores are dedicated to it.

Well, if there should be little or no confusion with the disclaimer, then you need to quote the entire thing.

The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

It's very clear that the seller should have disclosed the problems in his listing since the disclaimer directs the reader to look there for any disclosures.

Also, the poor guy who got stuck with this cue has absolutely no recourse now since Joey here basically let PW off the hook. Now that the cue has been resold PW has no direct responsibility to the owner.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Well, if there should be little or no confusion with the disclaimer, then you need to quote the entire thing.

The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

It's very clear that the seller should have disclosed the problems in his listing since the disclaimer directs the reader to look there for any disclosures.

Also, the poor guy who got stuck with this cue has absolutely no recourse now since Joey here basically let PW off the hook. Now that the cue has been resold PW has no direct responsibility to the owner.

TAP, TAP, TAP!!!

Not only is PW off the hook for the cue because the OP no longer owns it, but the OP no longer has a case because he no longer has the cue in which to make his case with.

This entire episode has turned into a train wreck, plain and simple. It has also managed to expose those with integrity and those without. The guy gets screwed, so it's okay to for him to screw someone else, if he can...caveat emptor, and all?!!! I know I shouldn't be...but I cannot help but be utterly flabbergasted! Ethically, it was absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Yes, I am a tad bit angry. I feel duped. I sympathized for the guy because the cue he received was an epic fail, and he was unable to get the maker to make him 'whole'. As stated, that part in established...but what he chose to do next was every bit as wrong as what was done to him. Also...when other sellers indicate potential flaws, they typically include pics with those flaws. The OP managed to showcase pics of the cue, conveniently leaving those flaws out...which is deception in my book. Had he included pics with the flaws, it may have made this all a bit more palatable.

I do not care how you wish to color it....two wrongs still do not make a right.

Lisa

 

[manwon]

Why is it very hard for every one to see the truth in this thread??

1. The Op get a "factory second cue", for a price of "Custom cue"
I don't care if he lose just 100$ or maybe 1000$ for selling the cue to someone else. The problem is he dissapointed with PW's Act not "Work", and decide to brought up public. Maybe his intention is to get our support to push PW, but we can make a positive gain from this situation. Beware to making bussiness with Perry Weston.
2. ACA and Mr Jacoby is INVOLVED is this situation, because PW is ACA member. If in ACA there are no rule or regulation to handle such situation, this can be a momentum for build one.
3. There are some Bad cuemaker out there.
Mine as example, I order 4 oz shaft and 3x8x10 joint pin and the cuemaker send me a 3,6 oz shaft and uncommon 3x8x8 joint pin. He over the deadline 5 month. The only good thing he did to me is, he gave me 2x4 case free and i change my cue wood from ashwood to bocote after we have an aggrement to deal with ashwood (No charge). I dissapointed with how he working my cue. After he got my money upfront, he change his attitude. He reply my message very late andi believe that is why he making me a wrong joint pin and wrong shaft weight. I dissapointed for his ACT (That is why he making mistake) not his work. And it cost me 700 $ lost.
That is why, ACA must put a serious note for making some regulation in the future. Because OP story and my story is not the first and only. i believe there are some similar story out there. People choose to order a custom cue because various reason, some because the cuemaker is ACA member (So the Cuemaker must be a Profesional). ACA must have a responsibility for that.


Best
Dedy:smile:

Dedy, good post and I think you are right on track if these Cue maker associations are going to set high standards I also think that they should be involved in policing their members. While they certainly don't have the ability to settle disputes between cue makers and their customers they do have the ability to deal with cue makers who are not living up to the standards they set.

If there are no repercussions from doing bad business what purpose do these organizations serve, I don't know what to say I just think it is bad business for all concerned.

I hope that I am proven wrong only time will tell but, I am not where will it lead from here and who can the customer trust, I hope whatever they decide to do they make it public information and if there is nothing that the organization has in writing to deal with these situation's I hope they make the necessary changes.

With all the great people in this industry and who are members of these organizations you would think that if the entire situation is like the customer has lay-ed out some one would set up and do something to help him.

JIMO

 

[sengkun108]

This thread is between Perry weston, JoeyB and ACA......Between JoeyB and his buyer from ebay, that is another story..
About JoeyB is a gentleman or not, it is another Question.

And i think Perry Weston still have the responsible for his work, even the cue is already sold to the third person..

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

I'm sad that I have to agree with ChicagoRJ.

I'm sad that your sad, But even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. No worries, I'm sure it won't happen again. But if it does you could always deny it !!

 

[qbilder]

never mind...........