Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.

[kvinbrwr]

Under the ebay ad I noted the cue as defective! The item being tag as such I expected people asked, what was wrong and people did. And, as for the no return that was because if the buyer damaged it once they received it. I would have had no way of proving the damage vs the flaws to ebay in a dispute.

I'm sorry here's the ad I was looking at and I still can't see where you disclosed the defects you went over in such great detail as a buyer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&nma=true&rt=nc&item=280572006296

Do I have the wrong ad for the wrong cue maybe?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Under the ebay ad I noted the cue as defective! The item being tag as such I expected people asked, what was wrong and people did. And, as for the no return that was because if the buyer damaged it once they received it. I would have had no way of proving the damage vs the flaws to ebay in a dispute.

With all due respect, if you listed the cues defects in your description, then you would have been able to say, 'hey wait a minute, those flaws were there, read my description'.

Your choosing not to disclose the cue's flaws in your ebay description strikes me as dishonest. It's like you were willing to inflict the same unpleasantness that PW prevailed upon you, to an unsuspecting ebay buyer.

Placing the burden on a potential buyer to ask you about flaws that you were fully aware of but chose not to disclose, is shifty.

I think joeyb stock is plummeting.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[Charlie Edwards]

Under the ebay ad I noted the cue as defective! The item being tag as such I expected people asked, what was wrong and people did. And, as for the no return that was because if the buyer damaged it once they received it. I would have had no way of proving the damage vs the flaws to ebay in a dispute.
The cue was sold and there has been no complaint.

I was on your side until now. It looks as though you were trying to be a little slick. Sure you got a raw deal, but that didn't give you the right to pass that to someone else. You can try to explain that away all you want, but you were wrong. It actually seems you're not any better than Perry Weston, IMO.

 

[Celtic]

The listing is from about a month ago.

Item specifics
Condition: New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections. See all condition definitions- opens in a new window or tab... Read moreabout the condition Brand: Perry Weston
Length: 58" Cue Type: Two-Piece
Shaft Size: 12.75 mm Weight: 18 - 21 oz


Perry Weston Cues


Brand new-Perry Weston Cue


- Delivered September 3, 2010 from Perry Weston direct.
- One of a Kind.
- Genuine elephant ear wrap
- ebony, silver, purple heart
- 12 point (3 high/ 3 low in the forearm, 3 high/3 low in the butt sleeve)
- 132 inlays (silver stars, silver diamonds, silver spear heads, silver squares)
- 2 shafts(both 12.75, 3.6oz)
- Matching joint protectors(shaft protectors are numbered I and II in purple heart inlays)
- Weight is 18oz with no weight bolts. Weight can be added
- Elforyn ferrules and Kamui black medium tips
- Titanium radial pin

Used-Perry Weston Sneaky Pete

- This was one of Perry's personal playing cues
- four point Bocote wood with a curly maple forearm
- 1 shaft (12.5mm approx.)(includes joint protectors)
- Weight is approx. 18.1 with no weight bolt. Weight can be added
- Stainless Steel Radial pin



Basically covering yourself saying it "may be a factory second or new unused item with factory defects."

Holy smokes is that weak.

JoeyB gets ripped off (and he did).

JoeyB talks on AZB about ethics and tries to make the ACA hold up to their mission statement (nothing wrong with that either).

And then JoeyB does not look like he is going to get the cue fixed so he passes the buck and aims to rip off someone else with the same cue, not mentioning the flaws, trying to claim "well there is a stock Ebay disclaimer that says is might not be tip top!" and having a no return policy.

Trying to rip someone else off to offset your own loss.

Weak, so very weak.

 

[Celtic]

But for this jerk, yes, I'm using the term jerk here because I defended him, and rightly so, but then he decides to do EXACTLY what Weston did to him. There is no difference. Unsuspecting buyer on Ebay buys cue, pays in advance, has cue shipped to his home and then he opens this Pandora's Box of cue monstrosity after spending a few grand. Is this NOT exactly what happened to joeyb????? Exact same scenario.

And, for the record, since joeyb was so forthcoming on the problems of the cue, and listed the DEFECTS line by line on AZB, but then NEVER mentions them on EBAY, he would lose knowing he was aware of all known defects on this cue....

How would you like to have bought this cue on EBAY ?? You would have GONE nuts. I"ve bought and sold over 250 items on ebay and i'm a perfect 100%. I sold a 10 year old original Schuler recently that I bought new...shaft had a very small role, the some minor surface scratches near the butt, etc. Even after descrbing it I was afriad the guy would not like it and offered money back guarantee. But I was honest, he got a good deal, and I got great feedback because he GOT exactly what I described. ANYTHING else is BS. Plus, the fact that joeyb knew full well, makes his conduct extremely unethical.

I think Weston is wrong in this, but joeyb has shown his true stripes as well, and was more than willing to pawn this POS cue on some poor sap, take the bad rating on EBAY and move on with his life.....

Well done, you have stooped to Westons level, and now expect sympathy from us....Take your fight elsewhere.....When two losers are fighting, there is nobody left for us to cheer !!!!

+rep.

Well said.

 

[Maniac]

Holy smokes is that weak.

JoeyB gets ripped off (and he did).

JoeyB talks on AZB about ethics and tries to make the ACA hold up to their mission statement (nothing wrong with that either).

And then JoeyB does not look like he is going to get the cue fixed so he passes the buck and aims to rip off someone else with the same cue, not mentioning the flaws, trying to claim "well there is a stock Ebay disclaimer that says is might not be tip top!" and having a no return policy.

Trying to rip someone else off to offset your own loss.

Weak, so very weak.

How much did JoeyB ask for the cue? How much did he get for the cue? If the buyer is satisfied, which we have no way of knowing, why are we even discussing this? If I would have been looking for a "player" and offered him half of what he paid, I would have thought it to be a good deal if the cue hit as good as I would have expected.

Are we willing to let Perry Weston off the hook because we smell a shady deal by JoeyB? I think we should not!!!

Maniac

 

[Celtic]

If the buyer is satisfied, which we have no way of knowing, why are we even discussing this?

My post #88 explains my thoughts on this. You don't know who bought it or their knowledge level of the stuff. Customers don't deserve to be blind sided by stuff like this, not JoeyB and not the person he then sold the cue to.

Are we willing to let Perry Weston off the hook because we smell a shady deal by JoeyB? I think we should not!!!

Maniac

Not in the slightest. JoeyB just proved to me that as far as character goes he is right there with Weston.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

How much did JoeyB ask for the cue? How much did he get for the cue? If the buyer is satisfied, which we have no way of knowing, why are we even discussing this? If I would have been looking for a "player" and offered him half of what he paid, I would have thought it to be a good deal if the cue hit as good as I would have expected.

Are we willing to let Perry Weston off the hook because we smell a shady deal by JoeyB? I think we should not!!!

Maniac

The listed price for the cue on Ebay was $2,500 for this cue plus a used PW sneaky.

And trust me, no one is giving PW a pass on this deal. No one. Not at least until we hear his side of the story, which very well may not happen.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Not giving PW a pass...but since the OP no longer owns the cue, PW is no longer obligated to make it right. Typically satisfaction guarantees are not transferrable from the original owners.

That is not to say that there aren't makers out there that will stand behind their product from owner to owner. I can think of a couple, but that's just great customer service...not an obligation.

I would also have thought that should the ACA decide to review this incident, that the cue in question would have needed to have been sent to them, for a physical inspection. There are far too many photo manipulation programs available for them to make a sanctioning decision based on photos alone, and to expect them to do so is unrealistic, based upon the face that there is so much at stake on both ends...PW's perceived reputation and the ACA's perceived credibility. Yes, the emails are damaging, but that is only one piece of the puzzle. The actual cue would have spoken volumes.

Was the OP wronged in his transaction with PW? By all evidence supplied, it would appear so.

Was the OP wrong for railing on the ACA and Mr Jacoby because he did not get an immediate resolution to his issue with PW? I am going to say yes. He did not allow them ample time to address the issue.

Was the OP wrong for disclosing personal information with regards to PW's financial 'issues' on a public forum? Yes.

Was the OP wrong for then attempting to 'dump' this cue that has caused such a ruckus onto another unsuspecting individual via eBay without full clear disclosure via the listing description and the supplied listing photos? I say, absolutely.

The OP feels justified because he took a 'loss' on the cue by selling it on the secondary market. News Flash: Many cues depreciate the moment they leave the maker's shop...just like a new car leaving the lot. Some hold their value, some appreciate in value...that's the risk YOU take. Expecting to recoup your funds via the secondary market on a defective cue was extremely unrealistic.

The OP started this ship out on a $hit-storm, and should have rode it out until some sort of resolution was decided. Instead, he torpedoed the bow and jumped ship...and still expects it to float?! :kma:

Lisa

 

[joeyb]

Since we are so far off the topic of this thread let's post another crazy email from Perry Weston pertaining to the sale of this cue.

Perry Weston <westoncues@yahoo.com>
to Joey Branford <joeybranford@hotmail.com>
date Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:11 PM
subject Re: My Cue.
mailed-by hotmail.com
signed-by yahoo.com
hide details Sep 10
Joey, If you have a buyer I think you should go ahead and sell it. I am sure the new owner will be more than happy with it. You should then take the money and find a local cue maker to make a new one. If you call and stop buy each day to see how it is progessing you will get exactly the cue you want.

 

[shinobi]

Since we are so far off the topic of this thread let's post another crazy email from Perry Weston pertaining to the sale of this cue.

Oh, it's off topic of this thread? Would it be best then if someone started a new thread, perhaps titled, "Blames cuemaker for selling him new cue full of ridiculous defects; sells same cue on eBay without disclosing a single defect?!?!"

There is no excuse or defense for what you did.

In the old days, someone on eBay could have contacted your winning bidder and sent them a link to this thread (I think these days eBay doesn't disclose the winning bidder and allow that?).

How well do you think that would have gone over?

 

[Bishop]

Oh by no means am I justifying the ACA. Their arrogance & false representation is what got them in trouble for something that really doesn't concern them. I was just giving folks an idea of what to realistically expect from them. There's a reason I have never wanted to be in the ACA. I don't have to pay somebody to say my cues are good cues. At the base, the association is founded on honorable grounds. But the hogwash arrogant misrepresentation leads people to think they are something they aren't. That's something they should probably deal with sooner than later & make things right. But defending them, no. My point was to explain what they actually are in real world, so people bashing at them can understand that it's not within the ACA's power to do anything about this matter except excommunicate Weston from the group. And that will take time & cost several builders the money in the time they lose dealing with it.

Did they bring this on themselves? Yes. Does it make them look bad? Yes. Is it misleading to the buying public? Yes. There's no defending that. If they are serious about their image then it's something they should likely get together & fix. But i'm not a member and have nothing to do with that. I'm friends with several members, spoke with two of them about this mess. Nobody likes the negative publicity but there's nothing they can do. Not immediately, anyway.

:thumbup: great post

 

[joeyb]

Shinobi,
I got to put you in your place and say it was sold outside of ebay. And, I still have to tell you that I taged the item as defective!

 

[shinobi]

Shinobi,
I got to put you in your place and say it was sold outside of ebay. And, I still have to tell you that I taged the item as defective!

You did NOT clearly tag the item as defective.

You declared the item as Condition: New-Other and eBay offers this vague description of that condition as:

"A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections"

For all anyone knows your cue might be missing the original packaging and otherwise flawless.

There are no details whatsoever regarding any imperfections or defects in your listing. Nor do you highlight a single imperfection in your photos.

And, in the Q&A section of your eBay auction, you did not post any answers regarding the alleged questions you received, for public viewing.

For what it's worth, I am very sorry you had a horrific experience buying the custom cue in the first place. What a nightmare. I am glad if you sold the cue off eBay to someone who had opportunity to inspect the cue before purchase.

 

[book collector]

Problems

The association is designed for cuemakers to help cuemakers through association. Strength in numbers. They buy an entire row of booths at cue shows & get them discounted because of the bulk buy, so each builder pays less for booth space. They also get discounts through suppliers & such. That's the benefit of belonging. They have cue review for new members to ensure the builders are already solid & knowledgeable, and actual cuemakers. Beyond that initial test they have no authority over the builder & how he chooses to do business. They aren't a governing source or police. They trust that each member will have integrity & be honorable. You have to consider it's just a bunch of cue builders uniting to get a few benefits. None of them want to be involved in one another's business, or has any right to be. They each have their own business to care for.

Point being, people expect something of the ACA that isn't realistic. They don't want these issues any more than the buyers do. But they have no authority to do anything about it. The only thing they can do is excommunicate the offending builder, which takes several of the most ranking members to actually investigate the situation. That takes time away from their own work, which means they lose money. In the end if they find the suspected builder really is ripping folks off, then the most they can do is revoke his membership. But this all takes time & a full time cue builder has no spare time to spend on somebody else's business.

Hopefully that makes sense. I'm not trying to defend them. Their mission statement & propaganda are misleading and no different than politics. We all know what happens when we elect politicians full of promises. They soon find out they're powerless to support their mouths. All i'm doing is trying to explain it so folks understand that the ACA has no authority to intervene in this matter, nor the resources to do so. It's not their fault. They can't fix it. Even if they do revoke his membership, it'll take some time.

Thanks, I understand a bit more now

 

[Luxury]

I can't imagine the emotions that would come from getting ripped off then during the process of exposing the original villain, everyone finds out you are a complete douche as well!

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

Shinobi,
I got to put you in your place and say it was sold outside of ebay. And, I still have to tell you that I taged the item as defective!

We're still waiting for you to answer previous asked questions.

1. How much did you sell the cue for?
2. Is the buyer satisfied with the cue?

You are avoiding these two questions like you avoided the "description" on EBAY. Speak Man, we are all ears !!

 

[sengkun108]

If JoeyB is an honest man (like me, LOL) and tell all the potential buyer of his perry weston the truth about the cue, It will cost him more than 1200$ lost.
ACA can not help this problem and there is no chance we in az can push perry weston to refund joeyB money. We only can give symphaty for him (not money).

I have same experience with joeyB and it cost me 700$ lost for 659$ cue. Just imagine that condition LOL. Many people call me a stupid, but i even can not see that cue and play with my smooth stroke anymore. everytime i saw it, it's make my emotion unstable.

If we here a good forum community, we must push
1. Perry Weston to responsible for his work and fix that perry weston.
(i don't really care about that cue is on another parties hand. he must responsible for his work. i bought an used Toyota car, there is a problem with my car. Toyota still fix it with free charge. i hope you all get my point)
2. ACA for making some regulation to handle such situation.

Best
Dedy (Indonesia):smile:

 

[Piercyexclusive]

I had a problem once with a business I tried to call corporate but because the business was a franchise and each owned by different people there wasn't much that could be done. Since the business was legit I called the better business bureau and with enough legitimate complaints they could be closed down.

After the initial call the business was very helpful then.
But again I didn't sell, break, traded, and or threw the item in question. Cause if I did I had no voice in he matter any more. I sent the product to the BBB where it could be reviewed and in the end a refund was given.

I don't believe in bad customer service and I think it wasn't right. But if you got rid of the product and still complained I don't think there is much for anyone to stand on.
It's like buying a bannana from walmart, going home, eating it, going back to walmart, complain the bananas were bad but you ate it all. Then you want money back?

Now wether anyone wants to really do anything about this or could do anything that's up to everyone involved.

I know you canny satisfy people all the time. I also know that some here on this thread has also said that joeyb wanted a quick resolve and should have been more patient. But then again look at it this way, how fast does a person want money from someone who is commissioned to do something. Pretty quick and sometimes it's pushed. An example, you pay by debit in a store they take the money right away right? Then a complaint is made and you want your money back but it takes three days to get back in your account. Taking about being patient, to bad stores cannt put money in your account as fast as you paid them.

I think both are at fault in the end. But if the cue had all the defects, no maker, especially myself, should get off the hook. And I tHink the market should know all problems that a business has, at least for customers. So the market can dictate wether a business should keep operating of not. Not some group you join.

 

[JB Cases]

This is all easily boiled down the age old saying,

"a happy customer tells ten people and an unhappy one tells everyone".

I gotta go work before some of my customers turn into very unhappy ones.